id be well up for changing all the speakers in my 172cup count me in
does anyone know what to look for when buying speakers
heres my vote:
The SPL s 17cm 6.2
http://www.caraudiodirect.co.uk/dynamics-sd62-p-5523.html
and for the back the SPL coax http://www.caraudiodirect.co.uk/dynamics-td602-p-5512.html
id be well up for changing all the speakers in my 172cup count me in
does anyone know what to look for when buying speakers
Frequency response should be as wide as possible. The human ear can't really hear the top end that some of these speakers will produce but can hear the low end. A good low end frequency response is about 35hz ish
edit: also power output in RMS - max output means nothing
50 watts RMS is pretty good for a car speaker
Alpine = 70Hz - 27kHz - ok for mid range I suppose - no bass frequencies reproduced & 86dB sensitivity = rubbish.
SPL Dynamics SD 5.1 50Hz = 22 000kHz - again, no bass frequencies reproduced.
Pioneer TS A172C 35Hz-25000Hz - Much better bass response
http://shop.audioimages.co.uk/pioneer-ts-a172c-17cm-2-way-separate-speaker-system-p-799.html
Pioneer TS E176C - 28Hz-32000Hz - Even better bass response
http://shop.audioimages.co.uk/pioneer-ts-e176c-17cm-2-way-separate-speaker-system-p-790.html
Good luck with your choices.
hmm the man has a point. Although I've never heard Pioneers. Always thought of them as chavvy for some reason lol
I work with car audio for a living and i am professionaly trained by four who distribute genesis, rainbow etc and also by JL audio. what your telling these people is wrong!!!!!
hmm the man has a point. Although I've never heard Pioneers. Always thought of them as chavvy for some reason lol
are you totally f**ckin stupid or what!!!!!!! since when has a 5 inch or 6 inch speaker ever produced a 35hz note. It will never happen. Mid range speaker will only produce down to around 70hz at the least. 28hz up to 120hz is a subwoofers job. You really need to stop giving advice and info to people that you know absolutely nothing about!!!!! I work with car audio for a living and i am professionaly trained by four who distribute genesis, rainbow etc and also by JL audio. what your telling these people is wrong!!!!!
what your telling these people is wrong!!!!!
are you totally f**ckin stupid or what!!!!!!! since when has a 5 inch or 6 inch speaker ever produced a 35hz note. It will never happen. Mid range speaker will only produce down to around 70hz at the least. 28hz up to 120hz is a subwoofers job. You really need to stop giving advice and info to people that you know absolutely nothing about!!!!! I work with car audio for a living and i am professionaly trained by four who distribute genesis, rainbow etc and also by JL audio. what your telling these people is wrong!!!!!
Oh dear, look who's got the sh1tty end of the stick !
If a driver unit is advertised as capable of reproducing a 35Hz tone (speakers don't make tones)it will otherwise the trades description act kicks in. Go sue Pioneer/whoever if you have an issue with that. A driver unit which only goes down to 70Hz will not be capable of reproducing tones below that so important parts of the lower frequencies in music (bass) just won't be there. That's why people want to upgrade the standard clio speakers.
Anyone with functioning ears will be able to tell the difference between cheap drivers at 70Hz and inexpensive drivers at 35Hz, the difference will be substantial and obvious. Anyone fitting replacement driver units which go down to 70 or 50Hz in place of standard clio units will be wasting their money. For the same/similar price, driver units which go down to 35/ 28Hz are available and WILL sound better and you'd have to be really obtuse to disagree with those facts.
In a multi unit install, you're right, there is no point trying to get serious bass out of 5" to 7" units as they are better suited to midrange frequencies BUT that's not the point in this instance.
- People want an inexpensive upgrade for their standard units.
- The Alpine / SPL units will sound inferior to the Pioneers.
- My 'rough guide to buying cheap speakers' was just that - a rough guide.
- Frequency response is only an indicator but one they were crucially missing.
- So far, I've given them more help than you have.
- And I've been able to do so without the Ad Hominem approach.
what your telling these people is wrong!!!!!
That, my friend, is provably, domonstrably, mathematically bollix
So ok still no one has come to a conclusion of what speakers we would all go for?
Can we have names and what people would ideally want to go for.
I know it sounds daft but if we all went for one type we would get a hell of a lot better deal.
John182rs - Alpine type R's (270w's)
What??????????? all im saying in short mate is that looking at figures and info given about a speaker is pretty much irrelevant. Just buy a decent brand and dont waste money on cheap components. components at the 100 quid level will sound appauling. Stick to a coaxial and MAKE SURE you disconnect that hideous tweeter on the dash
So ok still no one has come to a conclusion of what speakers we would all go for?
Can we have names and what people would ideally want to go for.
I know it sounds daft but if we all went for one type we would get a hell of a lot better deal.
John182rs - Alpine type R's (270w's)
I personally know nothing about speakers so are those direct replacements, any good, cost???
I'm no audio head but I really want a nice set of components just to replace my standard clio ones. Don't really want to break the bank so if the people with the knowledge could recommend some 13cm speakers for around 70 english pounds sterling, I would be greatly appreciative.
I'm no audio head but I really want a nice set of components just to replace my standard clio ones. Don't really want to break the bank so if the people with the knowledge could recommend some 13cm speakers for around 70 english pounds sterling, I would be greatly appreciative.
I have mate. DanR hosed the thread.
I've no axe to grind, so company connections, no formal training, but I've been bang into hi-fi for 25+ years and I trust my ears.
Just make sure the sensitivity is 90db+ (easier for your amp to drive the speaker) and the frequency response is around 30Hz (actually reproduces some bass) then choose on price, then do the group buy.
too many factors come into choosing speakers. different headunits??? amps???
too many factors come into choosing speakers. different headunits??? amps???
I'd say standard head units or sub £100 replacements so that'll be 25W to 50W per channel ?
Therefore (as you work in car hi fi you will know) that the sensitivity rating of a driver unit is,
in this instance, paramount (not irrelevant) when examining the spec of the speaker.
Rough Guide:
Part 1 (indisputable)
70Hz = Mid range
30Hz = Bass
Notes (like on a guitar) vs Hz (frequency) further reading will give you some idea.
part 2: lifted from here other examples available, this is a bit simplistic but it does the job.
Speaker / Sensitivity / W needed to produce a given volume
Speaker A - 85 dB = 100 watts <~~ gash
Speaker B - 88 dB = 50 watts
Speaker C - 91 dB = 25 watts <~~ Ideal
Ergo, the more sensitive a speaker is rated in db (logarhytmic) , the easier it will be for a 25W or 50W amp to drive.
If the group buy wanted amps I'm sure they would have stated that, they haven't (and they can always add an amp and some crossovers later) so I guessed they just want some efficient, inexpensive components which will sound better than standard units. I linked to a couple of speakers which will sound better then the ones proposed and I have backed that choice up with the reasoning behind my choice, instructions on how to check the specs and the mathematics to back up my suggestion.
All that despite not knowing what the chuff I'm on about ! Impressive, eh
You chose the Ad Hominem approach and, so far, have added nothing to the debate apart from heat.
apart from a 50w headunit will actually never produce 50w of music power. more like 15 to 20w max when playin music.
Its not impressive all this. is just pointless info which means nothing in the real light of things.
none of that info will tell you how GOOD a speaker will sound
Like i said and ill say it again. comps at 100 quid are pointless
Coaxials will be a better option at that price range
but again you still havent given me a price bracket so am really strugglin to give a decent option without a price.
So you agree: sensitivity is important ? good.
Now lets move on to RMS (Root Mean Square) and dispense with all that MPO tosh.
http://cbll.net/articles/pmpo gives a simple explanation why MPO is bunkum
As soon as you hear some spotty oik in a shop say the words Music Power Output you know you're dealing with a fool.
"a 50w headunit will actually never produce 50w of music power" is utter nonsense. LOLOLOL It's completely backwards !
15W RMS would be flogged as 120w MPO (15W 2 x 2 x 2)
A head unit which quotes output in RMS is accurate: 50W RMS = 50W RMS
Its not impressive all this. is just pointless info which means nothing in the real light of things.
(cough)bollix(cough) Comparing and explaining sensitivity and frequency response is Pointless info ?
I suspect you think I don't know what I'm on about because you don't understand what I'm on about !
Are you seriously disputing my explanation of sensitivity and frequency response ?
none of that info will tell you how GOOD a speaker will sound
You couldn't be more wrong if you tried. All of that information, when combined, will most certainly give an indication as to how good a speaker will sound when compared to another speaker of equal cost !
Why would the manufactureres quote the figures if they are not important ? You are not making any sense mate, you seem to be arguing against me but not putting any coherent argument forward for the benefit of the people who actually want to do a group buy. You're muddying the waters pointlessly.
Like i said and ill say it again. comps at 100 quid are pointless
Pointless ? Why have car manufacturers progressed to putting tweeters in the dash ? Is it to improve the sound staging while keeping costs down ? Is it to improve spearation ? Lets have your analysis. Saying it's pointless isn't enough, you have to demonstrate why it's pointless.
Coaxials will be a better option at that price range
(cough)bollix(cough)
What's the point of tweeters firing tops into the footwell ?
My ears aren't in the footwell.
What will disabling the in dash tweeters do to the sound staging ?
Considering you "work in car audio" you are demonstrating the typical lack of fundamental knowledge the average PFY employed in such establishments.
but again you still havent given me a price bracket so am really strugglin to give a decent option without a price.
Well, I'll just say you're struggling and leave it at that.
I'm going to invite you, one last time, to demonstrate in coherent terms (and I'd like to see your workings out - like at school) EXACTLY why sensitivity is NOT important, why frequency response is NOT important and why referring to those figures to weed out poor speakers is NOT a good idea and why coaxials in the footwell are better than components which place low frequencies down low where they belong whilst improving the sound staging.
Put up or ...
putting tweeters as near to the mids as possible is nearly always the best place for them.
putting tweeters as near to the mids as possible is nearly always the best place for them.
What ? In the footwell ?
This is the real world, Dan, they want a decent sounding cheap replacement speaker, on a tight budget which can be done by someone on thier drive with a screwdriver. You still haven't answered my questions re: sensitivity and frequency response and that's because you can't refute the (very) basic facts. I think everyone will draw their own conclusions from that fact. Then they will probably go out and buy some mid range 70Hz speakers which are 'gr8 because they r called Type R, innit'
/end
putting tweeters as near to the mids as possible is nearly always the best place for them.
What ? In the footwell ?
This is the real world, Dan, they want a decent sounding cheap replacement speaker, on a tight budget which can be done by someone on thier drive with a screwdriver. You still haven't answered my questions re: sensitivity and frequency response and that's because you can't refute the (very) basic facts. I think everyone will draw their own conclusions from that fact. Then they will probably go out and buy some mid range 70Hz speakers which are 'gr8 because they r called Type R, innit'
/end
you could try pioneer see what they could do. since both dan and Blue recommended pioneer, if you read closely lol.
i'm a possible at the moment, i'll see what son offer, but i may just use the money to upgrade the system on a new car
doesn any one, just on the off chance, know if the upgraded system on the citroen C4 is any good? with the sub etc.
I asked them about there own range of speakers the InPhase.
INPHASE XT5C 200W COMPS £100 THEN DISCOUNTED £50 (50% off)
INPHASE XT52ND 200W £55 THEN DISCOUNTED TO £27.50 (50% off)
PeteCup. i have seen them in a clio with the rings and the orignal grills go over the top just.