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Group Buy On Speakers
- Thread starter john182rs
- Start date
ValverInBits
Frequency response should be as wide as possible. The human ear can't really hear the top end that some of these speakers will produce but can hear the low end. A good low end frequency response is about 35hz ish
edit: also power output in RMS - max output means nothing
50 watts RMS is pretty good for a car speaker
those speakers are utter utter utter utter s**t!!!! come on lads get with the program.
wattage in general means almost nothing either. and frquency response is irrelevant too providing your buyin a decent brand. Those spl stuff is absolute dog s**t!!!!!! i wouldnt fit those in a fu**ing tractor!!!!!
are you totally f**ckin stupid or what!!!!!!! since when has a 5 inch or 6 inch speaker ever produced a 35hz note. It will never happen. Mid range speaker will only produce down to around 70hz at the least. 28hz up to 120hz is a subwoofers job. You really need to stop giving advice and info to people that you know absolutely nothing about!!!!! I work with car audio for a living and i am professionaly trained by four who distribute genesis, rainbow etc and also by JL audio. what your telling these people is wrong!!!!!
Arctic blue 182ff
ITB BG 182
So ok still no one has come to a conclusion of what speakers we would all go for?
Can we have names and what people would ideally want to go for.
I know it sounds daft but if we all went for one type we would get a hell of a lot better deal.
John182rs - Alpine type R's (270w's)
Can we have names and what people would ideally want to go for.
I know it sounds daft but if we all went for one type we would get a hell of a lot better deal.
John182rs - Alpine type R's (270w's)
Oh dear, look who's got the sh1tty end of the stick !
If a driver unit is advertised as capable of reproducing a 35Hz tone (speakers don't make tones)it will otherwise the trades description act kicks in. Go sue Pioneer/whoever if you have an issue with that. A driver unit which only goes down to 70Hz will not be capable of reproducing tones below that so important parts of the lower frequencies in music (bass) just won't be there. That's why people want to upgrade the standard clio speakers.
Anyone with functioning ears will be able to tell the difference between cheap drivers at 70Hz and inexpensive drivers at 35Hz, the difference will be substantial and obvious. Anyone fitting replacement driver units which go down to 70 or 50Hz in place of standard clio units will be wasting their money. For the same/similar price, driver units which go down to 35/ 28Hz are available and WILL sound better and you'd have to be really obtuse to disagree with those facts.
In a multi unit install, you're right, there is no point trying to get serious bass out of 5" to 7" units as they are better suited to midrange frequencies BUT that's not the point in this instance.
- People want an inexpensive upgrade for their standard units.
- The Alpine / SPL units will sound inferior to the Pioneers.
- My 'rough guide to buying cheap speakers' was just that - a rough guide.
- Frequency response is only an indicator but one they were crucially missing.
- So far, I've given them more help than you have.
- And I've been able to do so without the Ad Hominem approach.
That, my friend, is provably, domonstrably, mathematically bollix
What??????????? all im saying in short mate is that looking at figures and info given about a speaker is pretty much irrelevant. Just buy a decent brand and dont waste money on cheap components. components at the 100 quid level will sound appauling. Stick to a coaxial and MAKE SURE you disconnect that hideous tweeter on the dash
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Wanted to add this but was oot.
Before this thread gets out of hand I'll suggest that someone who's involved with the group buy, buys or downloads a sound system test cd and takes it along to their local car audio place. Play a 30Hz test tone through various speaker units. If you can hear the 30Hz test tone through the speaker, the radio in your car will sound better and so will most other music. If you can't hear the 30Hz test tone don't buy the speakers. At the price you're willing to pay, that's all you really need to know.
Sensitivity and Frequency response will be a more useful measure of how the speaker is going to sound and how efficient it's going to be when it's hanging off the back of a basic head unit.
See here for a basic guide, especially the bits on sensitivity and frequency response. http://www.crutchfieldadvisor.com/S-Hkz64vgE4wJ/learningcenter/home/speakers_glossary.html
And remember, at this price point, it's academic.
Before this thread gets out of hand I'll suggest that someone who's involved with the group buy, buys or downloads a sound system test cd and takes it along to their local car audio place. Play a 30Hz test tone through various speaker units. If you can hear the 30Hz test tone through the speaker, the radio in your car will sound better and so will most other music. If you can't hear the 30Hz test tone don't buy the speakers. At the price you're willing to pay, that's all you really need to know.
Sensitivity and Frequency response will be a more useful measure of how the speaker is going to sound and how efficient it's going to be when it's hanging off the back of a basic head unit.
See here for a basic guide, especially the bits on sensitivity and frequency response. http://www.crutchfieldadvisor.com/S-Hkz64vgE4wJ/learningcenter/home/speakers_glossary.html
And remember, at this price point, it's academic.
Ex-172 owner. Now a Mini!
I personally know nothing about speakers so are those direct replacements, any good, cost???
I think as a group buy a certain type and brand should be chosen and then everyone asked of they want in or not maybe?
What??????????? all im saying in short mate is that looking at figures and info given about a speaker is pretty much irrelevant. Just buy a decent brand and dont waste money on cheap components. components at the 100 quid level will sound appauling. Stick to a coaxial and MAKE SURE you disconnect that hideous tweeter on the dash
But, that's not what they want, is it ? At this price, the figures are more relevant.
They want components.
The ones they were looking at were gash.
the ones I suggested will reproduce a bit of bass, the others won't.
That's it.
Saying I don't know what I'm talking about isn't helpful, I know enough to know that my Acoustic Energy AE1's are the dogs
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1.2 Extreme
I'm no audio head but I really want a nice set of components just to replace my standard clio ones. Don't really want to break the bank so if the people with the knowledge could recommend some 13cm speakers for around 70 english pounds sterling, I would be greatly appreciative.
Frequency Response: 70Hz - 27kHz - gash, ok for mids.
Sensitivity / Impedance: 86dB / 4 Ohm - 86db ? lol - gash
A4 DTM/iceberg cup
i'm confused. (musical numpty here) dont know what any of the facts or figures really mean. i just want to be recommended a good set of replacement speakers to get rid of the standard shizz they fit in the clio.
and if anyone can do that they are a hero as i've read all of this and come to no conclusion lol
and if anyone can do that they are a hero as i've read all of this and come to no conclusion lol
I have mate. DanR hosed the thread.
I've no axe to grind, so company connections, no formal training, but I've been bang into hi-fi for 25+ years and I trust my ears.
Just make sure the sensitivity is 90db+ (easier for your amp to drive the speaker) and the frequency response is around 30Hz (actually reproduces some bass) then choose on price, then do the group buy.
ill leave you to it guys. too many factors come into choosing speakers. different headunits??? amps??? each customer is different and imo a group buy will not satisfy each customers needs. i know this as i work in car audio. peoples budgets are different. Give me a budget for everyone and what you want to spend and ill tell you what id recommend.
I'd say standard head units or sub £100 replacements so that'll be 25W to 50W per channel ?
Therefore (as you work in car hi fi you will know) that the sensitivity rating of a driver unit is,
in this instance, paramount (not irrelevant) when examining the spec of the speaker.
Rough Guide:
Part 1 (indisputable)
70Hz = Mid range
30Hz = Bass
Notes (like on a guitar) vs Hz (frequency) further reading will give you some idea.
part 2: lifted from here other examples available, this is a bit simplistic but it does the job.
Speaker / Sensitivity / W needed to produce a given volume
Speaker A - 85 dB = 100 watts <~~ gash
Speaker B - 88 dB = 50 watts
Speaker C - 91 dB = 25 watts <~~ Ideal
Ergo, the more sensitive a speaker is rated in db (logarhytmic) , the easier it will be for a 25W or 50W amp to drive.
If the group buy wanted amps I'm sure they would have stated that, they haven't (and they can always add an amp and some crossovers later) so I guessed they just want some efficient, inexpensive components which will sound better than standard units. I linked to a couple of speakers which will sound better then the ones proposed and I have backed that choice up with the reasoning behind my choice, instructions on how to check the specs and the mathematics to back up my suggestion.
All that despite not knowing what the chuff I'm on about ! Impressive, eh
You chose the Ad Hominem approach and, so far, have added nothing to the debate apart from heat.
Orange
Start a list of people!!!
1) Black-clio-1.4 (Back set)
2) John182rs (Alpine type R's (270w's))
3)
4)
5)
6)
7)
1) Black-clio-1.4 (Back set)
2) John182rs (Alpine type R's (270w's))
3)
4)
5)
6)
7)
I'd say standard head units or sub £100 replacements so that'll be 25W to 50W per channel ?
Therefore (as you work in car hi fi you will know) that the sensitivity rating of a driver unit is,
in this instance, paramount (not irrelevant) when examining the spec of the speaker.
Rough Guide:
Part 1 (indisputable)
70Hz = Mid range
30Hz = Bass
Notes (like on a guitar) vs Hz (frequency) further reading will give you some idea.
part 2: lifted from here other examples available, this is a bit simplistic but it does the job.
Speaker / Sensitivity / W needed to produce a given volume
Speaker A - 85 dB = 100 watts <~~ gash
Speaker B - 88 dB = 50 watts
Speaker C - 91 dB = 25 watts <~~ Ideal
Ergo, the more sensitive a speaker is rated in db (logarhytmic) , the easier it will be for a 25W or 50W amp to drive.
If the group buy wanted amps I'm sure they would have stated that, they haven't (and they can always add an amp and some crossovers later) so I guessed they just want some efficient, inexpensive components which will sound better than standard units. I linked to a couple of speakers which will sound better then the ones proposed and I have backed that choice up with the reasoning behind my choice, instructions on how to check the specs and the mathematics to back up my suggestion.
All that despite not knowing what the chuff I'm on about ! Impressive, eh
You chose the Ad Hominem approach and, so far, have added nothing to the debate apart from heat.
apart from a 50w headunit will actually never produce 50w of music power. more like 15 to 20w max when playin music.
Its not impressive all this. is just pointless info which means nothing in the real light of things. none of that info will tell you how GOOD a speaker will sound. Like i said and ill say it again. comps at 100 quid are pointless. Coaxials will be a better option at that price range but again you still havent given me a price bracket so am really strugglin to give a decent option without a price.
So you agree: sensitivity is important ? good.
Now lets move on to RMS (Root Mean Square) and dispense with all that MPO tosh.
http://cbll.net/articles/pmpo gives a simple explanation why MPO is bunkum
As soon as you hear some spotty oik in a shop say the words Music Power Output you know you're dealing with a fool.
"a 50w headunit will actually never produce 50w of music power" is utter nonsense. LOLOLOL It's completely backwards !
15W RMS would be flogged as 120w MPO (15W 2 x 2 x 2)
A head unit which quotes output in RMS is accurate: 50W RMS = 50W RMS
(cough)bollix(cough) Comparing and explaining sensitivity and frequency response is Pointless info ?
I suspect you think I don't know what I'm on about because you don't understand what I'm on about !
Are you seriously disputing my explanation of sensitivity and frequency response ?
You couldn't be more wrong if you tried. All of that information, when combined, will most certainly give an indication as to how good a speaker will sound when compared to another speaker of equal cost !
Why would the manufactureres quote the figures if they are not important ? You are not making any sense mate, you seem to be arguing against me but not putting any coherent argument forward for the benefit of the people who actually want to do a group buy. You're muddying the waters pointlessly.
Pointless ? Why have car manufacturers progressed to putting tweeters in the dash ? Is it to improve the sound staging while keeping costs down ? Is it to improve spearation ? Lets have your analysis. Saying it's pointless isn't enough, you have to demonstrate why it's pointless.
(cough)bollix(cough)
What's the point of tweeters firing tops into the footwell ?
My ears aren't in the footwell.
What will disabling the in dash tweeters do to the sound staging ?
Considering you "work in car audio" you are demonstrating the typical lack of fundamental knowledge the average PFY employed in such establishments.
Well, I'll just say you're struggling and leave it at that.
I'm going to invite you, one last time, to demonstrate in coherent terms (and I'd like to see your workings out - like at school) EXACTLY why sensitivity is NOT important, why frequency response is NOT important and why referring to those figures to weed out poor speakers is NOT a good idea and why coaxials in the footwell are better than components which place low frequencies down low where they belong whilst improving the sound staging.
Put up or ...
your hilarous!!!!!:lolup: :lolup: :lolup: :lolup:
You obviousl know nothing about staging then. Putting speaker directly facing at the screen is the worst thing you can do due to reflections from the glass. Making an A pillar build is different but very costly.Where are you based??? you really need to come to our shop and i will demo a car for you to cover all the things ive said and basically prove to you that putting tweeters as near to the mids as possible is nearly always the best place for them. i had a subaru with JL audio XR range of speakers and the tweeters were in the bottom of the door next to the mid. I had an excellent soundstage with the voice in the centre of the dash. all the instruments in the correct places. My boss used to judge iasca for his job so has some idea what he is listening for.
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Im just goin to leave you to make your decisions anyway.( just waiting while you need more info from other websites to add on here as you dont know the answer yourself) Take a visit here some day and all will be revealed. If youve never been involved in car audio then all your info is from home stuff which is different and from websites full of irrelevant pointless info. Take care mate
What ? In the footwell ?
This is the real world, Dan, they want a decent sounding cheap replacement speaker, on a tight budget which can be done by someone on thier drive with a screwdriver. You still haven't answered my questions re: sensitivity and frequency response and that's because you can't refute the (very) basic facts. I think everyone will draw their own conclusions from that fact. Then they will probably go out and buy some mid range 70Hz speakers which are 'gr8 because they r called Type R, innit'
p.s Q Vas sensitivity Frequency response is relevant to all sound reproduction, from poxy car installs
to club sound systems (I used to install them) - see Funktion One dance stacks for an example.
/end
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id go for the pioneers tse-1302i coaxials with dynamat( the most important part of the whole installation. job done. Give me price on them and ill find out what i can do a load of them for
yes in the footwell
and yes it works im afraid. Need the proof??? ive told you what to do!!! take a trip in ur car down here
Writen off dci 100
1) Black-clio-1.4 (Back set)
2) John182rs (Alpine type R's (270w's))
3) S_123 (Alpine Type R Components)
4) Josie172cup - replacement for front and rear to compliment 2 10" subs
5)
6)
7)
8)
9)
10)
2) John182rs (Alpine type R's (270w's))
3) S_123 (Alpine Type R Components)
4) Josie172cup - replacement for front and rear to compliment 2 10" subs
5)
6)
7)
8)
9)
10)
ITB BG 182
Right i am just going to give an update for your lot but i get the funny feeling some one might start laughing at the first couple of lines with prices on speakers.
I phoned the caraudiocenter uk and asked for prices on the following :-
SPR13C 270W £55 THEN DISCOUNT OF £1
SPR13S COMPS 300W £104 THEN DISCOUNT OF £3
What a joke im thinking for a couple of quid.
I asked them about there own range of speakers the InPhase.
INPHASE XT5C 200W COMPS £100 THEN DISCOUNTED £50 (50% off)
INPHASE XT52ND 200W £55 THEN DISCOUNTED TO £27.50 (50% off)
I have herd good an bad things about the inphase but ive also spoken to them an said they need to make sure that they wont interfer with the window mechs, as some people have said they needed a mdf ring underneath to stop it from catching on anything, which they sounded ok to make them.
I have recently contact Alpine UK aswell, i am waiting for prices to come back from them as i said that i could have ten orders plus but also the intrest of 50 people dependant on prices, an that it being with a club order it could be used as some kind of advertisment for them.
So any other make of speakers that your lot are intrested in or anyone else that might be advisable for me to contact?
I phoned the caraudiocenter uk and asked for prices on the following :-
SPR13C 270W £55 THEN DISCOUNT OF £1
SPR13S COMPS 300W £104 THEN DISCOUNT OF £3
What a joke im thinking for a couple of quid.
I asked them about there own range of speakers the InPhase.
INPHASE XT5C 200W COMPS £100 THEN DISCOUNTED £50 (50% off)
INPHASE XT52ND 200W £55 THEN DISCOUNTED TO £27.50 (50% off)
I have herd good an bad things about the inphase but ive also spoken to them an said they need to make sure that they wont interfer with the window mechs, as some people have said they needed a mdf ring underneath to stop it from catching on anything, which they sounded ok to make them.
I have recently contact Alpine UK aswell, i am waiting for prices to come back from them as i said that i could have ten orders plus but also the intrest of 50 people dependant on prices, an that it being with a club order it could be used as some kind of advertisment for them.
So any other make of speakers that your lot are intrested in or anyone else that might be advisable for me to contact?
Mondeo TXS Bardge.
you could try pioneer see what they could do. since both dan and Blue recommended pioneer, if you read closely lol.
i'm a possible at the moment, i'll see what son offer, but i may just use the money to upgrade the system on a new car
doesn any one, just on the off chance, know if the upgraded system on the citroen C4 is any good? with the sub etc.
i'm a possible at the moment, i'll see what son offer, but i may just use the money to upgrade the system on a new car
doesn any one, just on the off chance, know if the upgraded system on the citroen C4 is any good? with the sub etc.
No its not good. We have a customer that we did an upgrade for with that system as the factory upgrade was very poor. He even asked for his money back from citroen
he he he didnt get very far tho
Up rocks
Nice going! The INPHASE XTC 200W COMPS look ok if your going for 13cm but they do look a little deep for the Clio door cards....
Rings could be made up but i'm not sure you'll be able to get the standard grill back on with packing rings in place??
Hondata'd EP3 Type R
DAN R who do you work for by the way? I'm curious.
Up rocks
1) Black-clio-1.4 (Back set)
2) John182rs (Alpine type R's (270w's))
3) S_123 (Alpine Type R Components)
4) Josie172cup - replacement for front and rear to compliment 2 10" subs
5) jackbanny173
6)
7)
8)
9)
10)
2) John182rs (Alpine type R's (270w's))
3) S_123 (Alpine Type R Components)
4) Josie172cup - replacement for front and rear to compliment 2 10" subs
5) jackbanny173
6)
7)
8)
9)
10)
