Had the 172'd mk1 RR'd today... do these AFR figures look right?

[Matteh]

I popped down to Surrey Rolling Road today for the RR day and popped the 172'd mk1 on

I first ran it with rstuner group n and then with the 98ron cal which was better

Here are the graphs:

power atf and AFR:

power/torque atf

power/torque atw

The AFR looks all over the place to me? but looking at whiteleys graph, his is similar (though on a smaller scale so looks less severe) and he made 172 bhp!

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y270/whiteley/IMG_2743.jpg

looks like its running rich/not getting enough air?

The engine is standard (though rebuilt)
exhaust is a wrapped ph1 manifold (4-1) with a 2.25" straight through, decat and magnex backbox
inlets are DIY matched
standard airbox with no CAF and a dirty looking filter
vpower (if it makes a difference)

vvt solenoid clicks on/off with rstuner, so doubt thats at fault, but never know! (pulley is about a year old)

when I did the timing I used the pulley locking tools and once I rotated the belt around a few times, the timing tools slotted straight back into place.. though I guess I could recheck that again...

I know my air filter isn't amazing.. but its quite a big drop!

the car doesnt *feel* that slow on the road, but an F7R hybrid made 180bhp a few minutes earlier, so i doubt the rollers were 'reading low' etc...

I get high 30s mpg with my London commute, so it can't be anything toooo drastic?

all in all, i'm just more confused as to why my car made such low power on the rollers :dapprove: and what I could possibly do to remedy it

I guess I need a new air filter for starters, but its such a minefield to find an induction kit/filter that everyone agrees on

 

[f0xy]

I doubt an air filter will drop it that much, Chris had a cheap pipercross one on his when it ran..

Ive got a feeling timing for it to be that low even though you said it was ok!

 

[Christopher]

 

[bmh.01]

Seems a little on the lean side to me?

 

[Matteh]

I doubt an air filter will drop it that much, Chris had a cheap pipercross one on his when it ran..

Ive got a feeling timing for it to be that low even though you said it was ok!

Seems a little on the lean side to me?

oh?

AFR value seems to dip to 11ish... doesn't that mean there's too much fuel?

 

[TimR26]

oh?

AFR value seems to dip to 11ish... doesn't that mean there's too much fuel?

It is running rich, I'd see what it's like after changing the filter.

 

[Matteh]

I fancy a proper induction setup... what's recommended

 

[TimR26]

Get the JMS induction kit.

 

[f0xy]

I fancy a proper induction setup... what's recommended

172/V6 Airbox straight onto the throttle body, it just about fits between the strut

 

[TimR26]

172/V6 Airbox straight onto the throttle body, it just about fits between the strut

I do like your setup

 

[jay s]

that thing jms tried squeezing in today looked good

 

[TimR26]

that thing jms tried squeezing in today looked good

I had it on my car yesterday and it sounds awesome

 

[Matteh]

no prices yet though :dapprove:


f0xy, you know that looks mint... but I still haven't relocated my battery

 

[f0xy]

Get an Oddysey, on its side, on the battery tray

 

[sideways danny]

it's RICH from 5.6k onwards. something deeper going on with this than a map though IMO

 

[Matteh]

...but what about whiteleys? his looks similarly rich!

 

[sideways danny]

hence not being the map causeing the biggest issue

 

[Whiteley]

Mine's not RSTuner'd either, just a boggo standard emulated ph1 ECU.

 

[Matteh]

does heat soak affect them much? my car must've been sat idling for half an hour before the run!

 

[f0xy]

Should have left RStuner on inside the car/laptop on the run and logged it

 

[Matteh]

didn't think of that... bah

I asked the RR guy if he wanted to see any of the live data.. but he didnt seem bothered

 

[sideways danny]

does heat soak affect them much? my car must've been sat idling for half an hour before the run!

a bit, but not as much as you're down

 

[bmh.01]

oh?

AFR value seems to dip to 11ish... doesn't that mean there's too much fuel?

Yeh but it runs well above 14 before 5k though? Haven't seen a 1*2 arf curve before but mine doesn't vary anywhere near that much. And same for a lot of other things I've seen. Don't think mine goes above 12 for the whole rev range.

 

[sideways danny]

a perfect curve on WOT would be 13.6 below 4.5/5k and 12.9 from there on.

you can almost disregard fueling below 3k on a power run as it's taken up the tailpipe

a 225 is different as it's turbo'd

 

[K-Tec Racing]

temp corrections should account for sitting their idling.... you get a glory run from a cooler engine,

 

[mini-valver]

Where the torque figures 115.2 ATF @peak?

 

[sideways danny]

Where the torque figures 115.2 ATF @peak?

no, that's at the wheels

 

[stan*]

Give it a full load run down the dual carriageway with the RSTuner logging... definately looks like an underlying fault.

 

[Matteh]

thats my plan for tonight

3am run ftw

I've just 'cleaned' the air filter a bit (lol) and reposition the airbox so the pipes are facing down instead of against the battery, but doubt that will do much anyway tbh

 

[stan*]

Just a thought, have you got a spare fuel pressure reg you could try?

 

[Matteh]

I don't...

but the reg is only about a year old from Renault!

I have a fuel pressure gauge in the garage... i could connect it and see what it's doing revving in neutral?

 

[stan*]

may just be clutching at straws but you'd want to check fuel pressure on a full run ideally.
easy on a r/r, not so easy on a dual carriageway

 

[Matteh]

just done a few runs, rstuner PA backs up the rollers :rasp:

ive got:

Air inlet temperature
Atmospheric pressure
Coolant temperature
Engine RPM
Fuel trim (short term)
Fuel trim gain (long term)
Ignition advance
Knock correction slow
Knock signal average
Manifold absolute pressure
O2 front sensor voltage
Throttle position
Vehicle speed


at first glance it looks ok...

MAP sensor goes from 500mb to about 1013mb at WOT.
the throttle position goes from about '8' to '90' so its getting that signal correct. the throttle is actually open max too (we tested at the RR)
engine rpm is 7500, so thats fine

anyone want to see any of the data


also, I tried unplugging the vvt and doing a run... the power and torque both dropped a reasonable amount


I think a timing check is in order tbh..

 

[f0xy]

Another thing that I just remembered when I was driving home then...

You said your Magnex pops/bangs with the 172 engine etc, and did in the past too? As mine has never done it (apart from once or twice on track when its been red hot). I have straight through, no cat no silencers just the Mongoose backbox with half the wadding removed...so no difference to a Magnex really at all.

Then realised your graph was rich up top end, which would mean technically it should pop/bang more? I only thought of this as when I started mine then it stunk of fuel out of the exhaust, and popped a few times on the way home like there was too much fuelling, something which it has never done before. Ive no idea what that was about, but it didnt do it just then round the block and seemed to smell 'normal' again.

Wonder if this problem has been there before you even did the RSTuner map? As it was before that when we were talking about exhausts...

 

[Tom@JMS]

also, I tried unplugging the vvt and doing a run... the power and torque both dropped a reasonable amount

I wondered if that could have been an issue... you had almost exactly the same result as car where the solenoid had packed up on the same rollers last year.