ClioSport.net
Register a free account today to become a member!
Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
-
When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission. Read more here.
Utter cod s**t.
If the Cup is so great (and I'm not saying it's bad out of the box, far from it) why do most heavy track day goers on here with Cups at the very least replace the springs or fit aftermarket dampers/coilovers etc??
A 172 with decent coilovers set up correctly would corner flatter, have more grip and would probably be more stable.
Tell the people on SSC to go and drink some white lightening and set fire to a bin or something....
If the Cup is so great (and I'm not saying it's bad out of the box, far from it) why do most heavy track day goers on here with Cups at the very least replace the springs or fit aftermarket dampers/coilovers etc??
A 172 with decent coilovers set up correctly would corner flatter, have more grip and would probably be more stable.
Tell the people on SSC to go and drink some white lightening and set fire to a bin or something....
Weeman sucks ****
In the case of H&R's, it's a yes end of. No harsher even though the car is nearer to the floor.
Lower centre of gravity and less suspension travel will result in flatter cornering, but it's then down to how good the spring/dampers are. It just so happens that H&R have got it just right for road use, they are a bit soft for track imo. Unfortunately I can't comment on any other kits.
Lower centre of gravity and less suspension travel will result in flatter cornering, but it's then down to how good the spring/dampers are. It just so happens that H&R have got it just right for road use, they are a bit soft for track imo. Unfortunately I can't comment on any other kits.
RenaultSport clio 172 mk2
Handle for what? A smooth circuit? A bumpy back road? A field? Handling is purely subjective. A car neither handles well nor handles badly, it just handles in a particular way.
Ie the balance of the car may be that when you brake the back end comes round and you end up in the nearest ditch. Sounds bad, but if you're in the 'spin a 172 into a ditch World Championships' then you could argue that the handling is good.
There is not such thing as a good handling car, only a car that handles the way you want it to.
Ie the balance of the car may be that when you brake the back end comes round and you end up in the nearest ditch. Sounds bad, but if you're in the 'spin a 172 into a ditch World Championships' then you could argue that the handling is good.
There is not such thing as a good handling car, only a car that handles the way you want it to.
Turbos.
I don't think any of us have the knowledge or experience to judge such a question.
As Tom has pointed out, what you do to your suspension should be defined by how you use your car. Is it just driven on the street or used on track?
I hear a lot about how peoples decked 172s 'handle' so much better but i would really like to know what the attitude of the car is on the limit and if the fun factor is actually increased. Surely only a back to back test in different environments would help which ASFAIK has never been done.
As Tom has pointed out, what you do to your suspension should be defined by how you use your car. Is it just driven on the street or used on track?
I hear a lot about how peoples decked 172s 'handle' so much better but i would really like to know what the attitude of the car is on the limit and if the fun factor is actually increased. Surely only a back to back test in different environments would help which ASFAIK has never been done.
Weeman sucks ****
No need to look so deep inot how the clio handles. Basically the car will 'feel' a lot better on a good set of coilovers. Unless you enjoy scraping your elbows on the floor
GOOD aftermarket suspension definately improves the handling. Look at the trophy as a perfect example..
On a cup:-
Koni dampers / eibach sportlines - Vast improvement for the road.
H&R coilovers - probabley best road setup.
Bilstiens Coilovers - bit still for the road excellent on track
Leda - can be adjusted for good road or track set up is.
I dont think you will find anyone who does think the above fitted to there car is a backward step. People who just fit cheap springs dont know what they are missing..
On a cup:-
Koni dampers / eibach sportlines - Vast improvement for the road.
H&R coilovers - probabley best road setup.
Bilstiens Coilovers - bit still for the road excellent on track
Leda - can be adjusted for good road or track set up is.
I dont think you will find anyone who does think the above fitted to there car is a backward step. People who just fit cheap springs dont know what they are missing..
RenaultSport clio 172 mk2
EVOgone said:
How many 'Trophy' miles have you done?
Been in the demo car for a full day from the dealers...not been on track. But i think the Koni Eibach setup on my car is better for the road (better over poor surfaces) than the trophy set-up (better on smooth surfaces). Compared to the std cup set up both are a massive improvement.
RenaultSport clio 172 mk2
Which dealers was this?
Weeman sucks ****
I drove a trophy at oulton park last year after driving my mates 182 cup. I found them and my 172 cup all quite different cars.
Standard 172/182 cup etc is a compromise.
Ride height. Cost. Comfort. Are all considerations when car designers make cars.
If you gave the chassis engineers no design criteria other then make this handle as well as you possibly can they definately would not come up with the standard cars setup.
I agree that overly low cars or cars with cheap kits maybe dont handle aswell. But in my experience a set of ledas setup by a professional motorsport company is far far superior to the standard cupped 182 setup.
It is harder and less comfortable but for
reduced body roll
shaper turn
more feel
stability under breaking
grip under accelleration
adjustability
better looks
its a small price to pay.
Ride height. Cost. Comfort. Are all considerations when car designers make cars.
If you gave the chassis engineers no design criteria other then make this handle as well as you possibly can they definately would not come up with the standard cars setup.
I agree that overly low cars or cars with cheap kits maybe dont handle aswell. But in my experience a set of ledas setup by a professional motorsport company is far far superior to the standard cupped 182 setup.
It is harder and less comfortable but for
reduced body roll
shaper turn
more feel
stability under breaking
grip under accelleration
adjustability
better looks
its a small price to pay.
everything about suspension is compromise
I for example can't find compromise between track and road use, because there is none!
I'm on H&R coilovers and when the car is great and predictable on the road, it is just awfull on track and vice versa.
I believe every quality product on the market (eibach,H&R,koni,...) is better than the standard spring shock combo, but requires alignment to suit your driving style
I for example can't find compromise between track and road use, because there is none!
I'm on H&R coilovers and when the car is great and predictable on the road, it is just awfull on track and vice versa.
I believe every quality product on the market (eibach,H&R,koni,...) is better than the standard spring shock combo, but requires alignment to suit your driving style
The Jinx
PMSL at the old "which would handle better" question.
Define what you think is good handling and then people can comment either way.
I prefer the std setup on a car for trackday use. I'm not going racing and I get most of my fun from generally looning about and std is far better for that. Even so, std cars are still more than capable of lapping supposedly quicker machinery if you know what you're doing and they don't so it's far more satisfying going past things as std.
Define what you think is good handling and then people can comment either way.
I prefer the std setup on a car for trackday use. I'm not going racing and I get most of my fun from generally looning about and std is far better for that. Even so, std cars are still more than capable of lapping supposedly quicker machinery if you know what you're doing and they don't so it's far more satisfying going past things as std.
FN2 Type R +MK6 Golf
Would'nt having a real hard coilover set up make the car a bit skitish in the wet.I'm sure theres a fine balance between doing too much and being subtle when it comes to lowering and having coilovers in general.
A great start would be to have some standard new shocks and lower it 30mm say and see whats what.
ian
A great start would be to have some standard new shocks and lower it 30mm say and see whats what.
ian
Tangoed Works
I agree with swervin mervin here. You need to be quite a skilled driver to exploit the cars full potential in standard form. Im guessing that in the right hands, the cars handling is as safe as it needs to be.
When you have your car lowered on springs / coilovers, it just gives you greater confidence to push harder, so you think it is handling better.
Only way to test is to have standard setup, take it for a blast, come back in whack on the new setup and go out again and compare lap times (obviously with same driver).
My guess is that most of us on here are average round a track, so the difference will be negligible. A pro could probably make the standard setup go round a track quicker than you or I could with a coilover setup.
When you have your car lowered on springs / coilovers, it just gives you greater confidence to push harder, so you think it is handling better.
Only way to test is to have standard setup, take it for a blast, come back in whack on the new setup and go out again and compare lap times (obviously with same driver).
My guess is that most of us on here are average round a track, so the difference will be negligible. A pro could probably make the standard setup go round a track quicker than you or I could with a coilover setup.
The Jinx
SOHROB said:
And as I said, it depends entirely on what you define as "better". For me, better is std as it's more fun. For others better is what allows them to go as fast as possible. Whole different ball game.
Same principle applies to valver, willy, 172, Cups etc etc. Learn to drive a std 172 Cup and most could hand another person there arse in a uprated one. My point was that
I'm going to ignore your comment about valvers not handling. Mine seemed to have no trouble sticking with the Scoobs and Elises on Saturday and I had a passenger.:rasp:
The Jinx
Of course.
The Jinx
I believe that was the question. Certainly was the one I was answering.
MKIII 138
so H&R are crap on track ??????????
oh dear, i was in october gonna part with £750 at one of the tuning companies on here (not including fitting) but i wont bother, i wont something thats good for both.
dunno about koni being soft for track ? i know it is when you have eibachs on (in fact it rolled massivley compared with my 30 mm P.I springs but it was sooo rock hard on the P.I`s i though it would be softer on eibach sportlines which it was)
why are the H&R poo on track whats better around £800 ?
oh dear, i was in october gonna part with £750 at one of the tuning companies on here (not including fitting) but i wont bother, i wont something thats good for both.
dunno about koni being soft for track ? i know it is when you have eibachs on (in fact it rolled massivley compared with my 30 mm P.I springs but it was sooo rock hard on the P.I`s i though it would be softer on eibach sportlines which it was)
why are the H&R poo on track whats better around £800 ?
MarkCup
ClioSport Club Member
MarkM said:
I've started trail braking fairly deep at times into bends which means the whole car steers from the back and rotates. Also, inducing understeer on purpose in faster turns knowing that a very slight left-foot drag on the brakes mid-turn keeps the nose in.
That's the way I drive, so a standard "friendly" set-up works for me.
Stick me in something set up for someone like EVOgone, and I doubt I'd get out of it what he's able to...the technical merits of a standard set-up suit my style...but don't suit EVOgone's as he said above.
The driver is as much of a variable in this as anything else...and is totally relevant to a question like this.
MarkCup said:
LOL..give me anyset up and i will drive it to death....but yes we have preferences mines neutral with a smige of understeer and others are slightly oversteer bias...You can still greatly control the bias with the load pedal...
The Eibach / Koni combination i have for me is an improvement on the road but not really on the track... Ledas or Bilsteins is the next step..
Similar threads
