How have I warped Brembo HCs

[H4RRY]

On my last track day my Clio has developed a decent amount of brake vibration since the last track day. It was fine a few weeks before at the previous day. My only thought is that I've parked it up on the trailer with the brakes too hot and leaving it stationary with pads and discs that hot has warped the discs. Does that sound sensible or not? I'm going to order some new discs soon but I'm trying to find out why hey have warped so quick so I can avoid doing it again.

any ideas?

 

[NorthloopCup]

What pads are you running? They may have left some pick up on your discs giving the feeling that the discs are warped mate.

 

[Bobby.]

Have you got much brake cooling? I.e fogs and arch liners out etc? That will help keep temps down.

Are you doing cool down laps?

Also are you leaving the car in gear after runs rather than putting the handbrake on?

 

[H4RRY]

I have ds2500s. And yeah I have brake cooling ducts from the fog lights (albeit home made ones) and we always do cooling down laps..... I think I may have done a cooling down lap opal the end of the last day and then put it straight on the trailer so I wonder whether that has done something. Normally the car doesn't have the handbrake out on in between sessions but I wonder whether going on the trailer quickly has done it..... I'll have a look for any deposits, wouldn't thinking you could get anything like that on your discs bad enough to make it feel like warped discs throughout.a whole day.

 

[M.A.C]

I've got the exact same setup, I run with fog lamps and liners out. Feels like the discs are warped only feel it sometimes usually only gentle braking.

 

[NorthloopCup]

I've got the exact same setup, I run with fog lamps and liners out. Feels like the discs are warped only feel it sometimes usually only gentle braking.

Are all the mating faces clean? Its worth checking.

 

[M.A.C]

I've driven with them (normal driving) for the last 4 months and they still do it. I may take them apart and have a good look.

 

[NorthloopCup]

I've driven with them (normal driving) for the last 4 months and they still do it. I may take them apart and have a good look.

Jack the car up and spin the wheels. Your looking for the tyres bobbing up and down to make sure they're not out of shape. Also look at the rim to make sure it's running true. A wheel balancing machine should pick that up, but they're only as good as the individual that's operating them. Also worth checking your steering arms for any play at the rack end. All the little things can add up and send you in the wrong direction.

 

[M.A.C]

Jack the car up and spin the wheels. Your looking for the tyres bobbing up and down to make sure they're not out of shape. Also look at the rim to make sure it's running true. A wheel balancing machine should pick that up, but they're only as good as the individual that's operating them. Also worth checking your steering arms for any play at the rack end. All the little things can add up and send you in the wrong direction.

I've had two new Michelins fitted pretty much a few weeks after the track day, I like the idea of play in the rack ends though! What's the best way to check for that?

I'm thinking of overhauling the front end sometime soon anyway with all new bushes.

 

[NorthloopCup]

I've had two new Michelins fitted pretty much a few weeks after the track day, I like the idea of play in the rack ends though! What's the best way to check for that?

I'm thinking of overhauling the front end sometime soon anyway with all new bushes.

To check the steering arms for play jack the car up and hold the wheel at 3 and 9 o clock. Give it a shake from side to side and see if you can feel any play. It may well only be a small amount mate, so it could prove hard to feel at first. If in doubt get someone to shake to wheel whilst you look/hold on to the steering arm.

 

[M.A.C]

To check the steering arms for play jack the car up and hold the wheel at 3 and 9 o clock. Give it a shake from side to side and see if you can feel any play. It may well only be a small amount mate, so it could prove hard to feel at first. If in doubt get someone to shake to wheel whilst you look/hold on to the steering arm.

Cheers for your help, I will look into it in the next few days.

 

[NorthloopCup]

Cheers for your help, I will look into it in the next few days.

No worries fella.

 

[MG cup]

Its your pads causing it, ds2500 are infamous for it. The disks basically need a skim after they have left the deposits.... It can be improved with driving but can't be made perfect.

 

[NorthloopCup]

Its your pads causing it, ds2500 are infamous for it. The disks basically need a skim after they have left the deposits.... It can be improved with driving but can't be made perfect.

I run ds2500's with no issue mate. Sure your not getting them confused with ds3000's as these are the ones I've been reading about leaving deposits.

 

[PeterCee]

If you're heavy on the brakes it's quite easy to get the brakes hot enough for the discs to warp (even brembo HC)- especially if there's two of you sharing the driving - that's my experience anyway - and that's with cooling ducts and cool down laps.

I know many on here will disagree and say the standard size HC discs are indestructible - but it all depends how hard you push the brakes.

We managed to warp new HC's with pagid blue's after 3 track days , some days the pads started to fade a bit and by then the pads would be smoking when you came in.

That's why we changed to 197 4 pots and 300mm discs for this year - better but still not flawless with DS2500's so trying DS1.11 next after a quick skim.

 

[EVOgone]

If you have had a big lock up it maybe a flat spotted tyre, swap front to back and see if it feels different.

 

[MG cup]

I run ds2500's with no issue mate. Sure your not getting them confused with ds3000's as these are the ones I've been reading about leaving deposits.

No mate, I have had ds2500 in both standard and Brembo callipers and had this issue both times.... I don't think they like being stopped hard from high speed for hairpins and such like. The 3000's I have also heard of bother with. The real proof is you'll never see a set of 2500 or 3000's on a competition car and if you do they aren't competitive.

 

[NorthloopCup]

No mate, I have had ds2500 in both standard and Brembo callipers and had this issue both times.... I don't think they like being stopped hard from high speed for hairpins and such like. The 3000's I have also heard of bother with. The real proof is you'll never see a set of 2500 or 3000's on a competition car and if you do they aren't competitive.

That's fair enough mate. I ain't one of the last of the late brakers anyway so that's possibly why I've not suffered any issues.

 

[M.A.C]

That's fair enough mate. I ain't one of the last of the late brakers anyway so that's possibly why I've not suffered any issues.

I do abuse my brakes on track! I brake as late as I can! Maybe they have just got slightly to hot. Still will be checking all the other bits though.

 

[aucky]

We managed to warp new HC's with pagid blue's

.

I think I might have done the same :/

 

[M.A.C]

I think I might have done the same :/

Are these discs really as good as people say?

 

[sonny172cup]

Incorrect bedding in process will cause this, even if they discs get rusty if they get wet they will have to be bedded in again as deposits will be wiped off.

The DS1.11 pad is pretty good, best pad I have used.

 

[H4RRY]

Sorry I haven't really been replying, had a weekend away..... I'm pretty hard on the brakes and there are two people that use the car. I think tyre flat spots and things aren't to blame as I would feel that at speed with the unbalanced wheel. If it's fairly common with people warping them then that must be it. I think I'll have to buy another set and do an extra couple of cool down laps at the end of a day or something to see how that helps them. Once I've gone through these pads I might consider something else but they have been perfectly good for me up until now.

 

[EVOgone]

No mate, I have had ds2500 in both standard and Brembo callipers and had this issue both times.... I don't think they like being stopped hard from high speed for hairpins and such like. The 3000's I have also heard of bother with. The real proof is you'll never see a set of 2500 or 3000's on a competition car and if you do they aren't competitive.

Nonsence, DS3000 are a cracking pad and great value as well vs pagid and CL and PF I have them on current and previous rally car front and rear and yes the rears do make a difference if running a proper brake set up with adjustment. Class trophy nearly every time out......

Regards won't be competitive with these is rubbish.......

 

[MG cup]

Nonsence, DS3000 are a cracking pad and great value as well vs pagid and CL and PF I have them on current and previous rally car front and rear and yes the rears do make a difference if running a proper brake set up with adjustment. Class trophy nearly every time out......

Regards won't be competitive with these is rubbish.......

I'm not saying the compound isn't great mate, its the pick up issues that I have known everyone to have which renders them useless in 'most' cases.

The ref to not being competitive was more to do with how hard the car is driven than the statement itself.

 

[EVOgone]

I'm not saying the compound isn't great mate, its the pick up issues that I have known everyone to have which renders them useless in 'most' cases.

The ref to not being competitive was more to do with how hard the car is driven than the statement itself.

Lots of people make sweeping statements who don't even compete (currently not at a level were actual components are holding the performance of the car back), your comment were quite clear just highlighting that's it's not the case. DS3000 are a great choice and as good as nearly any pad out there if a competition car, there not suited to the road that the problem with high disc wear from cold and horrible dust you carnt get off your alloys. Trust me I have tried nearly every pad out there.

 

[George@RTR_Parts]

What pads are you running? They may have left some pick up on your discs giving the feeling that the discs are warped mate.

This is usually the case

Are these discs really as good as people say?

Yes, top quality discs

Incorrect bedding in process will cause this, even if they discs get rusty if they get wet they will have to be bedded in again as deposits will be wiped off.

The DS1.11 pad is pretty good, best pad I have used.

Yes it can

Glad you're happy with the DS1.11 mate

Sorry I haven't really been replying, had a weekend away..... I'm pretty hard on the brakes and there are two people that use the car. I think tyre flat spots and things aren't to blame as I would feel that at speed with the unbalanced wheel. If it's fairly common with people warping them then that must be it. I think I'll have to buy another set and do an extra couple of cool down laps at the end of a day or something to see how that helps them. Once I've gone through these pads I might consider something else but they have been perfectly good for me up until now.

If the brakes are working as they should be, ie no sticky caliper. Then a warped disc is actually pretty rare. I have used and supplied a fair few sets of the Brembo HC discs with various pads aswel

The DS2500 are a great pad choice for road with a few track days a year ime

Nonsence, DS3000 are a cracking pad and great value as well vs pagid and CL and PF I have them on current and previous rally car front and rear and yes the rears do make a difference if running a proper brake set up with adjustment. Class trophy nearly every time out......

Regards won't be competitive with these is rubbish.......

Lots of people make sweeping statements who don't even compete (currently not at a level were actual components are holding the performance of the car back), your comment were quite clear just highlighting that's it's not the case. DS3000 are a great choice and as good as nearly any pad out there if a competition car, there not suited to the road that the problem with high disc wear from cold and horrible dust you carnt get off your alloys. Trust me I have tried nearly every pad out there.

Spot on mate

 

[coverman]

Very very rare for a disc to warp. Pad material deposition due in part to incorrect bedding in process is far more likely,and because of leaving brakes on after hard braking.

 

[H4RRY]

Again sorry for slowly replying to this thread, I have been away.... So it sounds like there is a chance that there is just some deposits on the discs. Would a good clean of the discs with some brake cleaner get rid of this? Surely if a days hard braking can't get rid of it then nothing will? Or am I missing something?

 

[brisbane956]

G172 gave me this,

http://www.stoptech.com/technical-support/technical-white-papers/-warped-brake-disc-and-other-myths

Good read...

 

[H4RRY]

Thanks for the link, it was an interesting read.

So it seems that the chances are the discs aren't warped but at how cheap HCs now are it seems them outcome is the same, just buy new discs.

 

[celicaturbolly]

After reading it if they are not warped why buy again?

 

[Fred@BTM]

50% of the time its incorrect fitting 50% of the time its either over driving them or not cooling them down enough

 

[Simon@SprayShack]

Brembo HC are way way way over rated.......they are pretty much entry level OEM discs really.....end thread. I warped / chewed up no end of discs including Ktec ones . If you want discs that will take constant abuse.........AP Racing all the way, im on the wilwood bell and rotor setup now, and im still on my first set of discs and 3rd set of DS2500.

 

[Mr R.]

Brembo HC are way way way over rated.......they are pretty much entry level OEM discs really.....end thread. I warped / chewed up no end of discs including Ktec ones . If you want discs that will take constant abuse.........AP Racing all the way, im on the wilwood bell and rotor setup now, and im still on my first set of discs and 3rd set of DS2500.

Si where did you get that set up from?

 

[Simon@SprayShack]

Si where did you get that set up from?

Jamsport, waited along time for it to be developed, but i can honestly say its spot on, near perfect. Just bare in mind the AP Racing discs are £200+ per side, when you need to replace them, but they are worth every pennie.

 

[Fletcher]

Jamsport, waited along time for it to be developed, but i can honestly say its spot on, near perfect. Just bare in mind the AP Racing discs are £200+ per side, when you need to replace them, but they are worth every pennie.

£200 each! And I thought compbrake discs at £115 (separate bell/ rotor setup) each was bad enough.

 

[Simon@SprayShack]

£200 each! And I thought compbrake discs at £115 (separate bell/ rotor setup) each was bad enough.

Slightly less than i thought, £365.16 for a pair of discs .......+new bolts @£27.91 a side (advisable)

 

[Fletcher]

Slightly less than i thought, £365.16 for a pair of discs .......+new bolts @£27.91 a side (advisable)

Bargain

Yeah sounds very similar to my set up, that requires 16 new bolts/nuts every disc change too.

 

[Fraser.J.]

Never had an issue with my HCs. I'm running RC6s and have ran PF97s. I'm a very late braker and never warped anything!