I am GENUINELY Stumped :(

[Chapster5]

Right today we have changed my drivers side drive shaft which was a suspect to a sudden jerky kind of knocking when turning and under braking from the front of the car. Took it out after the drive shaft replacement and what do you know... Still knocking like a b**ch and still juddering (as if buckled wheels)

Right pulled it back onto the drive let my dad take it out and watched closely as he drove and my passenger wheel looked like it was wobbling. Pulled it back on the drive and wouldnt you know the bolts where loose???? Weird I tightened the gits up! So took it back out for a test, so far so good how ever every so often on turning the knocking and juddering returned. So brought it back in and tried taking the wheel off 3 of the 4 bolts came out the other got jammed real tight and after a bit of a wrestle it snapped.... FFS its 8pm now... Not in the mood just got in from work so took the caliper and disc off and drilled out the bolt. Time to get tapping tomorrow and see if that helps at all

If it start knocking again what the hell could it be? Im stumped? Checked the wheel for a weight and there is no weight on that wheel (possibly never had one? Possibly fallen off) as it was half way through a Journey this problem occurred. Think the wheels need a VERY good re balance? Or am I looking at the wrong thing here?

As much input is sincerley appreciated im only insured on my dads car till Tuesday and im not really mechanically minded and he goes to Scotland for work tomorrow for a week so im going it alone

Nick

 

[-J-]

Checked the ball joint?

What happens when the car is jacked up and you grab top and bottom, and left and right and give it a wobble?

 

[Chapster5]

That will be one of the things I'll check when it's all back together mate when it started it did it after 30mph and severely under braking the steering wheel would shake and it felt as if I had a puncture

 

[MartinR]

What Wheels do yo have on it??

 

[Chapster5]

I actually don't know mate they have been painted Over any form of identification lol they look sort of Like turinis

 

[MartinR]

Are they the correct size centre bore? (60.1mm) do they have spigot rings?

 

[Chapster5]

Nope and nope they are bigger than the bore, how ever I've had them on 2 weeks and no problems? Even had 100 out of them on the motorway

 

[MartinR]

If the wheels are becoming loose it is down to no spigot rings.

Also are the wheel bolts chamfered like these??

 

[Chapster5]

They are Tuner Bolts mate I dont get why it's come loose though if all my bolts where swung on to tighten it on surely 4 bolts tightened down like mad wouldn't budge?

Tuner bolt:

http://www.demon-tweeks.co.uk/perfo.../grayston-round-chrome-tuner-style-wheel-bolt


That's the ones I bought M12 x 1.5

 

[rich-6]

If you have the wrong bolts for the wheels, They will come loose no matter how much you swing on them, tapered bolts for tapered seats etc.

 

[Chapster5]

They seem to be the right bolts perfect fit and the wheels are tapered too

 

[Danith]

What Martin said. Need spigots.

 

[Chapster5]

Good place to get them?

 

[Chapster5]

Ordered some Spigot Rings today for £16 delivered

72.6 - 60.1mm rings I think these are right we shall have to see. The mechanic at work said I shouldn't have run the wheels without the Spigot rings as the bolts have come loose from trying to hold the wheel in position and keep it tight to the hub. He said they aren't toleranced to hold a wheel in position more holding on.

Once I tap the hub out today Im hoping the rings will be here tomorrow and ill put it all back together and see what happens if not, ill be doubly stumped as to what it is

 

[MartinR]

The mechanic at work talks sense

lets hope its sorted now then its only the rear lights to do eh?? (only joking)

 

[Chapster5]

LOL Funny stuff

Yeh We will see if not I think ill limp it to the local tyre place and check the wheel for its balance -.-' Ugh money pit FTMFW!

 

[Rob]

You properly worry me. I genuinely think you should consider stopping working on your car yourself and start taking it to professionals.

The bolts you have are a 60 degree taper, are the wheels the same?

28mm thread does not seem very long, how far through the back of the wheel do they go?

Do a few things tonight please, just to save you from killing yourself...

Jack up the car, take a wheel off, poke the bolt through the hole on the wheel and check it fits tight, i.e the taper is the same angle, you should be able to tell either by eye or by wobbling the bolt around once in the hole.

Second, take a measurement to see how much of the bolt makes it through the wheel when it's off the car.

Anyone who says don't fit spiggot rings is mental, why do you think cars have hubs? Lets just bolt flat metal to flat metal than put extreme stress on 4 12mm bolts whilst flying around bends creating G forces with over a tonne of metal....?

Also, are the wheels the correct PCD? You're not forcing on 4x108 or something are you?

Get looking on the back of the wheel for any numbers at all.

 

[Chapster5]

You properly worry me. I genuinely think you should consider stopping working on your car yourself and start taking it to professionals.

The bolts you have are a 60 degree taper, are the wheels the same?

28mm thread does not seem very long, how far through the back of the wheel do they go?

They stick further than my standard bolts, They go all the way through the hub (about 10mm further than my standard bolts) (Although will measure tonight)

Do a few things tonight please, just to save you from killing yourself...

Jack up the car, take a wheel off, poke the bolt through the hole on the wheel and check it fits tight, i.e the taper is the same angle, you should be able to tell either by eye or by wobbling the bolt around once in the hole.

They feel sturdy enough no play in them and they sit all the way in the bolt hole (head flush with the top of the bolt hole on the wheel)

Second, take a measurement to see how much of the bolt makes it through the wheel when it's off the car.

Will do tonight mate

Anyone who says don't fit spiggot rings is mental, why do you think cars have hubs? Lets just bolt flat metal to flat metal than put extreme stress on 4 12mm bolts whilst flying around bends creating G forces with over a tonne of metal....?

Im no mechanic nor have any mechanical experience (I have a mechanic but when I ring him hes always busy and just says do it yourself it's easy) So I put them on, not thinking

Also, are the wheels the correct PCD? You're not forcing on 4x108 or something are you?

Yep they are multi-fit and 4x100 mate holes line up perfectly with the bolt holes on the hub

Get looking on the back of the wheel for any numbers at all.

Thanks Rob I shall do all those check tonight when i'm home and report back

 

[Chapster5]

Just a quick update...

Spigot rings and new bolts should arrive today. Tapped and rebuilt the passenger hub back up yesterday. Checked the thread length on the bolt when its through the wheel its 20mm of thread when the bolt is in the wheel... sufficient?

Also checked the angles of the bolt chamfers and the wheel they look and feel exactly the same from what I could tell.

Nick

 

[Adam_vxR]

your brave for bombing it down the motorway with no spigot rings :nono: hope it gets sorted mate

 

[mrs easym5]

Its the missing spiggot rings,a bmw i had developed a juddering for no reason so after getting wheels rebalanced etc we found the problem was the rings were made of cheap plastic and over time some had got soft and stretched with the heat from the brakes etc, a friend of mine at the tyre place i go to wrapped a few of turns of insulation tape round the hub instead of the knackered spiggot ring and the juddering disapeared, i drove it only till i could buy some metal replacement rings
Most plastic spiggot ring are made from tougher stuff now and dont go soft,if you buy plastic dont get the cheap ones, better still buy metal

 

[Chapster5]

Its the missing spiggot rings,a bmw i had developed a juddering for no reason so after getting wheels rebalanced etc we found the problem was the rings were made of cheap plastic and over time some had got soft and stretched with the heat from the brakes etc, a friend of mine at the tyre place i go to wrapped a few of turns of insulation tape round the hub instead of the knackered spiggot ring and the juddering disapeared, i drove it only till i could buy some metal replacement rings
Most plastic spiggot ring are made from tougher stuff now and dont go soft,if you buy plastic dont get the cheap ones, better still buy metal

Cheers mate as its turned out I've had no deliveries today ffs! Needed my car back on the road for the painters tomorrow unless I out my steel wheels back on hmmm might do actually

 

[Chapster5]

Right... Baffled is not the word?

Put my car back to the standard 14" steelies as a temporary fix until the rings come... Took it out for a test to see if the knocking had gone (being standard wheels they should be fine) low and behold, knocking still there? Under acceleration and turning its more prominent what the hell! Rang my mechanic he said replace the passenger driveshaft now FFS what else. Ive rung another local mechanic Equipe, and asked can I bring it in tomorrow morning for inspection so im going at half 8 to have it checked over my mechanic hasn't seen it in person and I have no idea what im looking for. Id rather have it checked by a pro than go buying parts willy nilly to change them and find its made F all difference... What else can I be looking for it's meant to go for painting tomorrow aswell and I have to go Ireland in it next week... Its looking grim... Very grim

 

[dmallett]

Sure the knocking isn't suspension related?

 

[Chapster5]

How would I check that mate grab it and shake it?

 

[Chapster5]

Just been out for another look and smacked both front wheels with my hand and the drivers wheel is solid where as the passenger wheel has a wobble too it? I did record a video but my phone is playing up and doesn't want to save it but could it be possibly a wheel bearing? I've put it under too much load and it's packed in?

Not sure if you can see any movement or not

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ja5j-dkiG5Y&feature=youtube_gdata_player

(first wheel drivers which is solid)

 

[Chapster5]

Jacked it up grabbed the wheel top to bottom and yanked no movement :/ not the wheel bearing. Sister in law kept driving the car up and down the street whilst I watched both wheels and no wobbling or movement not even round bends.

It's only under acceleration and coming out of bends but driving at a steady speed there is no knocking

Cv joint? I've just got a passenger driveshaft to try that as well

Any other suggestions guys really running out of time with this only insured on my dads car till Tuesday and I need my car for work and Ireland next weekend

 

[Spinksy]

Jacked it up grabbed the wheel top to bottom and yanked no movement :/ not the wheel bearing. Sister in law kept driving the car up and down the street whilst I watched both wheels and no wobbling or movement not even round bends.

It's only under acceleration and coming out of bends but driving at a steady speed there is no knocking

Cv joint? I've just got a passenger driveshaft to try that as well

Any other suggestions guys really running out of time with this only insured on my dads car till Tuesday and I need my car for work and Ireland next weekend

could be CV joint but i doubt it... ball joint is a possibility mate, also track rod end or a busher on your front suspension arm could be severly worn? when you jack it up take the wheel off and have a play around with the track rod and ball joint and have a peek from under neath at the suspension arm failing that it may have been mis-diagnosed and the bearing could be fubar'd :/ (make sure you give it a firm play when you have a look as it only appears to be doing it under stress

hope this helps mate and let me know how it goes

 

[Chapster5]

Cheers mate going to my mechanic in the next hour or so to fit another driveshaft will see what he thinks as well he's convinced it's the CV joint though from what I've told him over the phone

 

[Spinksy]

Cheers mate going to my mechanic in the next hour or so to fit another driveshaft will see what he thinks as well he's convinced it's the CV joint though from what I've told him over the phone

no worries fella have a look yourself while its on ramp the only one without visible signs of wear or damage is the bearing... so if you look underneath and everything looks okay and doesnt have too much play when pulling the bits etc then it would have to be your bearing... but good point of reference is to compare either side whilst under the car, and have a tug on the track rod end, suspension arm, bottom arm and the bit where your ball joint connects to the bottom arm, check it all thoroughly

and as said in other post let me know how it goes

 

[Chapster5]

Will do fella

 

[Spinksy]

Will do fella

sound

 

[Spinksy]

how'd it go matey?

 

[Chapster5]

Turns out changed the driveshaft and it's still knocking on further inspection from my mechanic (grabbing the engine and yanking it) it was the lower rear engine mount was worn and moving like a bugger! New one on order and a set of brake pads too lol!


Cheers guys!

 

[Spinksy]

Turns out changed the driveshaft and it's still knocking on further inspection from my mechanic (grabbing the engine and yanking it) it was the lower rear engine mount was worn and moving like a bugger! New one on order and a set of brake pads too lol!


Cheers guys!

ah so it wasnt localised to the wheel area and the parts that support said area?

strange if it sounded like it did, the engine mounts tend to sound like they are coming from right at the front of the car...

(not trolling in the slightest btw, i made educated guesses as i have had to change all these parts myself )

glad to hear it is sorted now though

 

[Chapster5]

It was coming from the front just sounded more off to a set side in a way mate

 

[Spinksy]

It was coming from the front just sounded more off to a set side in a way mate

fair does mate, i meant asin it literally sounded to me like a racket was being made at my front bumper when my engine mounts went :L

 

[MartinR]

Make sure you still put your spigot rings in though

glad its sorted

 

[Chapster5]

Make sure you still put your spigot rings in though

glad its sorted

Ordered and fitted Just have to put the alloys back on when I can be bothered... Ahaa Engine mount and brake pads on tonight though I think fingers crossed the weather stays good!

 

[Chapster5]

My god... Changed the back engine mount... It was shagged through. Still knocking though Ugh any more thoughts? Lol its getting to be a drag now!