Induction kit or original airbox..?

[SuperSoul]

Currently have a 172FF with a PiperX induction kit. I generally get about 30mpg on my daily commute, which due to traffic, is fairly sedate. I'd really like to squeeze some more mpg out of the car so I can razz it more at other times.

So, I was wondering whether swapping the induction kit for the original airbox would help (I'm assuming more air = more fuel)? The car has a fairly large Cobra exhaust fitted by the previous owner would the original airbox be lame with this?

Opinions please
Ta

 

[Henry22]

Std airbox is better than induction kits for perfomance as well.. There is a reason that companies like renault spend hours and hours and hundereds of thousands developing airboxes with cold air feeds and quality paper filters!

Induction kits are a false economy..

I'll await the comments on how many horsepower people have gained from their kits!.. And how much better they are! And the abuse to go with it..

 

[Tobs]

what he just said about the standard airboxs.

At work we have proven on rolling road that honda standard airboxs produce alot more low down torque and slightly higher BHP. Car manufactures spend millions on testing and developing the car parts and some are best keep the way they are.

Im not saying be a borning tit and do nothing to your car, but at the end of the day its ur car u do what u wana do to it.

But this is honda we are talking about the french haha

 

[mattjk]

Henry you are spot on with what your saying mate, not sure why you thought you get abuse for saying that I'm with you 100% (unless you plan on removing the battery etc and removing the 90D bend.

Tobs, what Hondas have you tested on? My friend has recently bought a K&N Typhoon for his Accord Type R

 

[Andyman]

You lot should have a look at this months Performance Ford mag (might be Fast Ford)

They did a tempreture test with a open K&N, a Viper with connected air feed and a Airbox with panel filter

Viper was the winner with a tempreture a whole 13 degree less than the Standard air box and panel filter combo! Open K&N came last as youd expect

Car tested was a ST Mondeo

 

[Andyman]

Std airbox is better than induction kits for perfomance as well.. There is a reason that companies like renault spend hours and hours and hundereds of thousands developing airboxes with cold air feeds and quality paper filters!

Induction kits are a false economy..

I'll await the comments on how many horsepower people have gained from their kits!.. And how much better they are! And the abuse to go with it..

Why in that case do 99% of folk on here rave about the ph1 172 airbox when the later one, a different style and square ''should'' be better because it was re-designed and newer, if your going by the development theory side of the argument?

Why do the Cup racers use of used to use a open IK with 45 degree inlet tucked in behind the head light if the factory set up is so good? They wouldnt want to lose power would they?

Can a 2'' pipe hold the same amount of air in as a 3'' pipe? More air as you know matched with the fueling = more power.


Renault could easily have built a better IK on the Clio like other parts of the car but its all about costs and compromise.

 

[sharkaroo]

Agree with Andyman! Each to their own at the end of the day, Renault develop it to suit all drivers, its peoples preference if they wanna change it for whatever reason.

 

[MRBILLYUK]

Std airbox is better than induction kits for perfomance as well.. There is a reason that companies like renault spend hours and hours and hundereds of thousands developing airboxes with cold air feeds and quality paper filters!

Induction kits are a false economy..

I'll await the comments on how many horsepower people have gained from their kits!.. And how much better they are! And the abuse to go with it..

I bet it took Renault about an hour to design an airbox for the 1*2 . It might just be a coincidence that the airbox is exactly the same shape as the only small space left in the engine bay Possibly that might have determined what shape is was going to be , rather than hours and hours of developement and " hundreds " of thousands of pounds :quiet:

Personally i have a k+n cone filter inside a custom made aluminium enclosure with 2 air feeds . Sounds good when booted and pulls just as good as with the standard airbox/filter .

 

[Henry22]

Std airbox is better than induction kits for perfomance as well.. There is a reason that companies like renault spend hours and hours and hundereds of thousands developing airboxes with cold air feeds and quality paper filters!

Induction kits are a false economy..

I'll await the comments on how many horsepower people have gained from their kits!.. And how much better they are! And the abuse to go with it..

Why in that case do 99% of folk on here rave about the ph1 172 airbox when the later one, a different style and square ''should'' be better because it was re-designed and newer, if your going by the development theory side of the argument?
The phase 2 'box' is a better design..

Why do the Cup racers use of used to use a open IK with 45 degree inlet tucked in behind the head light if the factory set up is so good? They wouldnt want to lose power would they?
As said previously, they want to get rid of the 90 degree bend.. As cup car have more room in the bay due to re-location of the battery.. And its sat as far away from the heat as possible.

Can a 2'' pipe hold the same amount of air in as a 3'' pipe? More air as you know matched with the fueling = more power.
:lolup: Irrelivant.. The engine sucks in the same amount of air no matter how big the pipe is, air in a 2" pipe will flow faster than in a 3" pipe of the same length. The overlap on the cams has a lot to do with what is pulled in.. Its restricions rather than 'bore' that you should be concearned about.


I take it you have a big waaaaarp waaaaaarp filter too then!? :rasp:



Renault could easily have built a better IK on the Clio like other parts of the car but its all about costs and compromise. Why would they put an equal length 4 branch exhaust manifold and put a 'bad' induction system on the car?!!

Wasn't expecting support from this to be honest, glad to see some people who know what they're talking about!

 

[Henry22]

Std airbox is better than induction kits for perfomance as well.. There is a reason that companies like renault spend hours and hours and hundereds of thousands developing airboxes with cold air feeds and quality paper filters!

Induction kits are a false economy..

I'll await the comments on how many horsepower people have gained from their kits!.. And how much better they are! And the abuse to go with it..

I bet it took Renault about an hour to design an airbox for the 1*2 . It might just be a coincidence that the airbox is exactly the same shape as the only small space left in the engine bay Possibly that might have determined what shape is was going to be , rather than hours and hours of developement and " hundreds " of thousands of pounds :quiet:

Personally i have a k+n cone filter inside a custom made aluminium enclosure with 2 air feeds . Sounds good when booted and pulls just as good as with the standard airbox/filter .

Looks good that mate,

If it pulls just as hard as the std airbox, why did you change it and spend loads of dosh of shiny bits?

 

[Merk]

I have the standard airbox with an ITG Panel filter inside, seems to be the best choice for most people from what i've read on here.

 

[JonC]

IMO you're not gonna see any gains with an IK. When I had my car RR, we did a back to back run with and without the standard airbox so that it was sucking air in directly from the throttle housing. It gained 1 bhp without the airbox.

 

[Sean.]

30mpg is pretty bad, i avergae around 40+, with combined cycle, i use std air box with panel filter and have a ktec exhaust.

getting rid of the filter and maybe put the cat back on, if you have it off already that is.

 

[Fletcher]

I have a itg maxogen fitted to my 172, much better then the standard airbox imho.

 

[Phil_ip]

Where you get that blue hose from Henry???

 

[Fletcher]

^^^^samco???

 

[pete_clio]

30mpg is pretty bad, i avergae around 40+, with combined cycle, i use std air box with panel filter and have a ktec exhaust.

thats the same as me, strange im only getting 31.7mpg. cats in and its well serviced run on super. odd. must be type of driving

 

[MRBILLYUK]

I bet it took Renault about an hour to design an airbox for the 1*2 . It might just be a coincidence that the airbox is exactly the same shape as the only small space left in the engine bay Possibly that might have determined what shape is was going to be , rather than hours and hours of developement and " hundreds " of thousands of pounds :quiet:

Personally i have a k+n cone filter inside a custom made aluminium enclosure with 2 air feeds . Sounds good when booted and pulls just as good as with the standard airbox/filter .

Looks good that mate,

If it pulls just as hard as the std airbox, why did you change it and spend loads of dosh of shiny bits?

Shiny bits were free from work , cost £0.00 Brand new k+n cone filter was £20.00 delivered from ebay

 

[Henry22]

Aluminium is also a very good heat conductor, any heat from he engine (lots) will just heat the shield up, and the air inside it!?

 

[Destined for Victory]

induction kit wont effect the mpg really ive currently got a cat back system and a maxogen and im getting upto 44 mpg, im having it decatted after mot even that wont make much difference

 

[sharkaroo]

^^^^samco???

Oh right ok, i thought maybe tesco, but thanks for putting me straight!:S

 

[SuperSoul]

When people quote 40 odd mpg is that actual or going off the computer? At the moment the computer is tells me I'm averaging 39mpg but when I do the maths at re-fueling time, it will be more like 30mpg. That's why I was blaming the induction kit as it was the only modification, as far as I could see, that could affect the amount of fuel used and perhaps 'confuse' the trip computer. Perhaps

 

[Andyman]

Why in that case do 99% of folk on here rave about the ph1 172 airbox when the later one, a different style and square ''should'' be better because it was re-designed and newer, if your going by the development theory side of the argument?
The phase 2 'box' is a better design..

Why do the Cup racers use of used to use a open IK with 45 degree inlet tucked in behind the head light if the factory set up is so good? They wouldnt want to lose power would they?
As said previously, they want to get rid of the 90 degree bend.. As cup car have more room in the bay due to re-location of the battery.. And its sat as far away from the heat as possible.

Can a 2'' pipe hold the same amount of air in as a 3'' pipe? More air as you know matched with the fueling = more power.
:lolup: Irrelivant.. The engine sucks in the same amount of air no matter how big the pipe is, air in a 2" pipe will flow faster than in a 3" pipe of the same length. The overlap on the cams has a lot to do with what is pulled in.. Its restricions rather than 'bore' that you should be concearned about.


I take it you have a big waaaaarp waaaaaarp filter too then!? :rasp:



Renault could easily have built a better IK on the Clio like other parts of the car but its all about costs and compromise. Why would they put an equal length 4 branch exhaust manifold and put a 'bad' induction system on the car?!!

Wasn't expecting support from this to be honest, glad to see some people who know what they're talking about!

Why is the ph2 square box a better design in your opinion??

Cup racers used a open induction kit no matter where it was in the engine, thats the point, so your point blank argument to dismiss IK's has fallen at the first hurdle.

Standard feeds on the air box design are restrictive! their restrictive in terms of bore and restrictive in terms of material and the way their shaped. A aftermarket cold air feed set up can far greatly improve the flow to the stock box

 

[mattjk]

Tis not like you Andy? I'm sure I remember it was me and you that had the discussion before about how many people are creaming themselves over the ph1 airbox and stupid cold air feeds etc..

The The cup racers used the relocation pipe to the front nearside headlight, although I have seen some with the open cone bolted straight on to the butterfly which doesnt seem right.

 

[Henry22]

Wasn't expecting support from this to be honest, glad to see some people who know what they're talking about!

Why is the ph2 square box a better design in your opinion??
The large surface area of the panel.

Cup racers used a open induction kit no matter where it was in the engine, thats the point, so your point blank argument to dismiss IK's has fallen at the first hurdle. Show me a cup car that runs an Big cone filter, in a 'close' vacinity to the engine.. with no head shield.. That runs the front of the field..

Standard feeds on the air box design are restrictive! their restrictive in terms of boreand restrictive in terms of material and the way their shaped.A aftermarket cold air feed set up can far greatly improve the flow to the stock box. What in your eyes would make one better? I'd go for the std heat insulated ones myself..

So what your saying is that if someone gave you ear defenders and 2 cars one with a ID and one with a std box, you could get in the cars and tell me which one has which in it!?
:lolup:

 

[Andyman]

Tis not like you Andy? I'm sure I remember it was me and you that had the discussion before about how many people are creaming themselves over the ph1 airbox and stupid cold air feeds etc..

The The cup racers used the relocation pipe to the front nearside headlight, although I have seen some with the open cone bolted straight on to the butterfly which doesnt seem right.

Iv not done a U-turn or anything bud lol

Most folk do the ph1 airbox mod because their just following a trend on here and because folk have got it into their heads that because its black and looks like a Maxogen, it must perform like a Maxogen. Inlet pipe thing into the corner is a far better mod based on the evidence of the Cup racers, a few tuners and the fact air flows better through straight rather that tight curved piping

 

[Andyman]

Why is the ph2 square box a better design in your opinion??
The large surface area of the panel.

Cup racers used a open induction kit no matter where it was in the engine, thats the point, so your point blank argument to dismiss IK's has fallen at the first hurdle. Show me a cup car that runs an Big cone filter, in a 'close' vacinity to the engine.. with no head shield.. That runs the front of the field..

Standard feeds on the air box design are restrictive! their restrictive in terms of boreand restrictive in terms of material and the way their shaped.A aftermarket cold air feed set up can far greatly improve the flow to the stock box. What in your eyes would make one better? I'd go for the std heat insulated ones myself..

So what your saying is that if someone gave you ear defenders and 2 cars one with a ID and one with a std box, you could get in the cars and tell me which one has which in it!?
:lolup:

Only reason why Renault changed between the square and the cylinder type air boxes was due to emissions. Had nothing what so ever to do with the square box 'being better'.

Well actually as already mentioned there are a few that have bolter the IK straight off the TB!. Not a clue what position in the series they got to. You'll have to ask them :rasp:


IMO a closed type induction kit is the best from my experiences and the most important part being proper set up (mapped) and a decent size CAF for a cold air sorce.

IK's like any breathing mod is just one part of the combination of a potential and optional bigger picture. The quickest 172s / 182's on this forum are all using after market IK's with good effect

 

[Henry22]

So what your saying is that if someone gave you ear defenders and 2 cars one with a ID and one with a std box, you could get in the cars and tell me which one has which in it!?
:lolup:

Only reason why Renault changed between the square and the cylinder type air boxes was due to emissions. Had nothing what so ever to do with the square box 'being better'.

Well actually as already mentioned there are a few that have bolter the IK straight off the TB!. Not a clue what position in the series they got to. You'll have to ask them :rasp: LOL straight of the throtle body! thats laughable!


IMO a closed type induction kit is the best from my experiences and the most important part being proper set up (mapped) and a decent size CAF for a cold air sorce. Closed being the better option for sure..

IK's like any breathing mod is just one part of the combination of a potential and optional bigger picture. The quickest 172s / 182's on this forum are all using after market IK's with good effect The quickest 1*2's on this forum have turbos or throttle bodies!

 

[Andyman]

Here's a picture. Not sure how many Cup racer teams used this set up but this is one of the Palmersport race cars running 185 bhp.

Quickest N/A set up cars i was meaning when i said quickest ones. Non of the 'quickest' ones on here use stock airboxes from what iv seen. Airboxes are for the light modding brigade as their proven to do nowt other than make you feel you have a Maxogen just because it looks like one :rasp:

 

[mattjk]

Thats the one I saw before, apperently it was a 182 but it had a spare wheel well...


Shows how much they know about cars really doesn't it

 

[Inferno]

There's always going to be arguments about whether or not induction kits actually produce real gains or not. The fact of the matter is that getting air into the engine as efficiently as possible and expelling the spent gasses as efficiently as possible is the key to maximising engine efficiency. The 182's or 172's do not have a lot of space to get lots of nice cold air into them in a direct route to be fair.

At the end of the day any gains or losses incurred are going to be minimal and barely noticable imo. Won't stop me trying though and my maxogen looks great under the bonnet!

Wasn't this thread about mpg though...

 

[marc_87]

Here Here :clap:

 

[Clgale88]

There's always going to be arguments about whether or not induction kits actually produce real gains or not. The fact of the matter is that getting air into the engine as efficiently as possible and expelling the spent gasses as efficiently as possible is the key to maximising engine efficiency. The 182's or 172's do not have a lot of space to get lots of nice cold air into them in a direct route to be fair.

At the end of the day any gains or losses incurred are going to be minimal and barely noticable imo. Won't stop me trying though and my maxogen looks great under the bonnet!

Wasn't this thread about mpg though...

Pics of ur maxogen please buddy

 

[Inferno]

As you can tell, I don't clean much under the bonnet...

 

[Lagerlout]

Tis not like you Andy? I'm sure I remember it was me and you that had the discussion before about how many people are creaming themselves over the ph1 airbox and stupid cold air feeds etc..

The The cup racers used the relocation pipe to the front nearside headlight, although I have seen some with the open cone bolted straight on to the butterfly which doesnt seem right.

Iv not done a U-turn or anything bud lol

Most folk do the ph1 airbox mod because their just following a trend on here and because folk have got it into their heads that because its black and looks like a Maxogen, it must perform like a Maxogen. Inlet pipe thing into the corner is a far better mod based on the evidence of the Cup racers, a few tuners and the fact air flows better through straight rather that tight curved piping

I thought I was on my own with this one tbh. lol.

 

[MRBILLYUK]

Aluminium is also a very good heat conductor, any heat from he engine (lots) will just heat the shield up, and the air inside it!?

:clown:

 

[Jagz]

i think its how you drive it i can also get an average 44mpg on my 172 and i have a plowerflow exhuast system.

I also agree that a standard air box is better, i fitter a piperx viper and i tested it i think it was slightly slower to pick up at about 3000 revs. It did sound great if you like that sort of thing. but i then put the standard one back on.

make sure yourr tyre pressure is correct, and use air con instead of opening your windows. that will also help you have a better mpg

 

[Andyman]

More air in = potential to run lean. Lean = drop in performance

IK = better flow over stock induction (more air in)


Folk fit IK moan that theres a drop in performance / no difference - do the maths

 

[Inferno]

More air in = potential to run lean. Lean = drop in performance

IK = better flow over stock induction (more air in)


Folk fit IK moan that theres a drop in performance / no difference - do the maths

True, but no-one said that you shouldn't re-map after fitting an induction kit, or exhaust, or any other engine modification for that matter. And that (if done correctly) would irradicate the potential of running lean.

 

[tef]

ok my pipe on my standard air filter is history, its split and is sealed with some type of mastic. so instead of replacing it i thought i would go for a full induction kit. found this on ebay and was wondering if it will fit my 2000 mk2 ph1 172? i emailed the guy but he hasn't responded yet
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Renault-clio-...hash=item250274156172&_trksid=p3286.m14.l1318.

cheers!