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Jason473's Titanium 182



Good shout, my heart sank when I went to undo it yesterday and i saw it was one of those torx head jobbies. Luckily it came out without too much of a fight!
If you got it out then that's good to hear. Whenever I remove them I immediately throw them away from the car so I have to get a new bolt

Found the one from my old dCi with the lawnmower a few months after throwing it in the garden 😂
 

Porl

ClioSport Club Member
Bloody torx screws are s**t when brand new never mind after rusting for 16 years. Here's a couple I removed the other day.
IMG_20210516_143737.jpg

Slotted with a slitting disk and used a big screwdriver to undo them😆. That reminds me, I need to order normal bolts to replace them!
 

Jason473

ClioSport Club Member
  Clio 182 FF
So I was planning on changing the timing belt and dephaser pulley because:

a) I had no proof other than the sellers word that the belts had been done. He told me they were done around 100k miles which from looking at the MOT history would have been around 2019.

b) I wanted to check the timing was actually correct.

c) I thought the rocker cover required resealing.

I had already removed the timing covers and was able to take a good look at the belt and pulleys. They looked in pretty good condition, some of the bolts had obviously been off pretty recently. Also there are no nasty sounding noises from the dephaser and from I can remember the car pulling absolutely fine.

For some reason yesterday I decided to stick my pile of receipts in the Renault document wallet I received with the car. When I bought it I had a quick flick through and it just looked like a collection of old MOT's and new keeper slips! I bought the car on the assumption of it having no history and was satisfied with this as I wanted a project and got it for a decent price (they guy I bought the car from had only had it for a week and had taken it in part ex so couldn't really tell me anything about it).

So on closer inspection yesterday I was surprised and pleased to find a few maintenance receipts - things like the Powerflex mounts and coilovers etc, along with this (I'm still not exactly sure how I missed it)...

1621497432138.png


One receipt from mid 2018 for a timing kit, dephaser pulley and host of other parts. This ties up with the 2018 date stamp on the old oil filter I removed and the fresh looking coolant expansion bottle.

So to answer my first point, I now have confidence that the timing belt and dephaser have been changed at some point between now and June 2018. Meaning there as least 2 years life left before they need to be changed

With all of the timing covers removed, pile of new genuine parts sitting on the bench ready to be fitted and timing tools at the ready I was looking for reasons to change the belts, so onto point b, the timing:


Absolutely spot on. This gives me further confidence that when the belt was changed, care was taken in doing so.

So now my final reason, the oil leak. The joint between the head and rocker cover actually looks ok. These images aren't great but I'm fairly convinced the oil is leaking from under the bolt heads and from the dephaser solenoid seal. Some has been running down the front face of the rocker cover and pooling on top of the lower inlet manifold. And to answer the obvious question... no its not because oil was spilled during filling because I cleaned it all when I changed the spark plugs.

1621497530772.png

1621497556874.png



So i cleaned off the oil that had leaked and changed the depahaser solenoid seal
1621497899346.png

1621497993456.png


1621498018028.png


Then I set about sealing under all of the rocker cover bolt heads. Removing one by one, cleaning all of the oily residue with IPA, wiping dry, applying sealant before tightening to the correct torque.
1621498106386.png


1621498137104.png

1621498155243.png


So fingers crossed, no more oil leaks... well from the upper engine anyway!

So to summarise, it doesn't make sense to me to change the belt and dephaser at the present time as i believe they are only half way through their service life:

-I'm happy that the timing belt and dephaser pulley have been changed within the last 2.5 - 3 years. They are in good condition visually, there are no noises from the dephaser and the car pulls well. I have a reciept from mid 2018 for the associated items.
- The timing is spot on. This also gives me confidence that when they were changed it was done by someone who knew what they were doing and it was done correctly
-I'm 90% confident that the seal between the head and rocker cover is fine and that the oil was coming from the dephaser solenoid seal and under the bolt heads.

I still had to strip it down this far to fully inspect, and whilst I have been at it I have cleaned up and sprayed a few more bits plus I have all the parts now for when the belt is next due in June 2023

I'll probably still stick a new water pump on it as I've got the pulley off now and pumps are relatively cheap. That way everything aux side is fresh.
 

Touring_Rob

ClioSport Club Member
Result!

When I got mine it was cheap, part of the reason was the seller said the belts had never been done. Got home and looking through the paperwork they had also been done 2 years earlier weirdly by a Citroen dealership but using Renault parts 🤷‍♂️
 

Cliocup182!

ClioSport Club Member
  Clio 182 cup
So I was planning on changing the timing belt and dephaser pulley because:

a) I had no proof other than the sellers word that the belts had been done. He told me they were done around 100k miles which from looking at the MOT history would have been around 2019.

b) I wanted to check the timing was actually correct.

c) I thought the rocker cover required resealing.

I had already removed the timing covers and was able to take a good look at the belt and pulleys. They looked in pretty good condition, some of the bolts had obviously been off pretty recently. Also there are no nasty sounding noises from the dephaser and from I can remember the car pulling absolutely fine.

For some reason yesterday I decided to stick my pile of receipts in the Renault document wallet I received with the car. When I bought it I had a quick flick through and it just looked like a collection of old MOT's and new keeper slips! I bought the car on the assumption of it having no history and was satisfied with this as I wanted a project and got it for a decent price (they guy I bought the car from had only had it for a week and had taken it in part ex so couldn't really tell me anything about it).

So on closer inspection yesterday I was surprised and pleased to find a few maintenance receipts - things like the Powerflex mounts and coilovers etc, along with this (I'm still not exactly sure how I missed it)...

View attachment 1539612

One receipt from mid 2018 for a timing kit, dephaser pulley and host of other parts. This ties up with the 2018 date stamp on the old oil filter I removed and the fresh looking coolant expansion bottle.

So to answer my first point, I now have confidence that the timing belt and dephaser have been changed at some point between now and June 2018. Meaning there as least 2 years life left before they need to be changed

With all of the timing covers removed, pile of new genuine parts sitting on the bench ready to be fitted and timing tools at the ready I was looking for reasons to change the belts, so onto point b, the timing:


Absolutely spot on. This gives me further confidence that when the belt was changed, care was taken in doing so.

So now my final reason, the oil leak. The joint between the head and rocker cover actually looks ok. These images aren't great but I'm fairly convinced the oil is leaking from under the bolt heads and from the dephaser solenoid seal. Some has been running down the front face of the rocker cover and pooling on top of the lower inlet manifold. And to answer the obvious question... no its not because oil was spilled during filling because I cleaned it all when I changed the spark plugs.

View attachment 1539613
View attachment 1539614


So i cleaned off the oil that had leaked and changed the depahaser solenoid seal
View attachment 1539615
View attachment 1539616

View attachment 1539617

Then I set about sealing under all of the rocker cover bolt heads. Removing one by one, cleaning all of the oily residue with IPA, wiping dry, applying sealant before tightening to the correct torque.
View attachment 1539618

View attachment 1539619
View attachment 1539620

So fingers crossed, no more oil leaks... well from the upper engine anyway!

So to summarise, it doesn't make sense to me to change the belt and dephaser at the present time as i believe they are only half way through their service life:

-I'm happy that the timing belt and dephaser pulley have been changed within the last 2.5 - 3 years. They are in good condition visually, there are no noises from the dephaser and the car pulls well. I have a reciept from mid 2018 for the associated items.
- The timing is spot on. This also gives me confidence that when they were changed it was done by someone who knew what they were doing and it was done correctly
-I'm 90% confident that the seal between the head and rocker cover is fine and that the oil was coming from the dephaser solenoid seal and under the bolt heads.

I still had to strip it down this far to fully inspect, and whilst I have been at it I have cleaned up and sprayed a few more bits plus I have all the parts now for when the belt is next due in June 2023

I'll probably still stick a new water pump on it as I've got the pulley off now and pumps are relatively cheap. That way everything aux side is fresh.
Good work! Can you share the link for the sealant you used for the bolts please? Cheers!
 

Jason473

ClioSport Club Member
  Clio 182 FF
Ok so things didn't quite go to plan after my last update but more on that later…

After confirming that the timing belt/ dephaser etc was in date and had a couple of years life left in it all I had to do was fit a new water pump and aux belt, bolt all the covers back on an be done with it. Easy, it all sounds so simple!

So, I set changing the pump.

Old pump out (with not too much hassle) access is tight tho!
1623166218748.png


Coolant system was then fully flushed, and mating faces cleaned up:
1623166248583.png


Noticed that my brand new genuine pump had not been tapped to accept the cam belt cover!
1623166258904.png


Remedied this:
1623166268857.png


Back on the car (I used some Hymolar blue sealant on both sides of the gasket as I didn't want to run any risk of leaking given how much of a ball ache access is).
1623166278065.png


Cleaned the lower inlet mani, altenator brackets and upper cam cover using our kitchen parts cleaner.
1623166286844.png


Gave them all a lick of paint.
1623166296962.png


And put them back on the car along with some new gaskets
1623166302286.png


I chose to fit a Hella alternator - mainly because I had an amazon voucher that needed spending, this was available on amazon so was effectively free…
The only issue with it was the lower mounting hole wasn't tapped - so I wacked in a helicoil
1623166323802.png


This was then fitted to the car along with a new tensioner and aux belt:
1623166362764.png


So far so good...
 

Jason473

ClioSport Club Member
  Clio 182 FF
Refitted everything else and filled with some nice, fresh, Type D. I was pleased with how good it was all looking and was looking forward to taking the car for a drive…
1623166454419.png


So all that was left – or so I thought, was to start the car, get it up to temperature and bleed the coolant.

I started the car. It fired up immediately, ran for a fraction of a secondwhilst making horiffic noises and cut out before I could stop it. Oh bother.

I must admit I did try and crank the car over and it span freely, no sign of compression. My heart sank, I know I had seriously messed something up!

1623166474199.png

Yep. F@@k.

1623166482734.png

Not a happy Jason. Not at all.

I couldn’t understand it, I hadn’t touched the timing belt at all. I checked the timing but had no idea why this happened. I hadn’t span the engine over by had before starting because I’d only changed the aux belt. All I could think was that I had possibly dropped something inside the cover without realizing!

So after cooling down over a couple of days I set about taking it all apart and to be fair it only took a couple of hours to get the head off! Obviously, I had the benefit of having recently putting the bloody thig together!

1623166493549.png


Can confirm that there is no jack in the box cam pinging out situation with the timing belt ‘removed’. In fact the 4 dowel pins hold the rocker pretty securely in place. I was pleased to see no snapped rockers at this stage! Also, the seal along the back of the rocker cover had failed and oil had been weeping out onto the exhaust mani. So the silver lining on all of this is that I get the chance to seal it properly!

1623166503049.png


Head off and on the bench. You can see 4x witness marks on the exhaust valves that made contact with pistons 1 & 3
1623166514407.png


And a slight dink in piston #1 (similar in piston #3 although barely noticeable)
1623166522307.png


I breathed a sigh of relief. Could have been so much worse. I checked the heights of the pistons relative to each other to make sure conrods etc were not bent (low risk) and all appeared to be fine.

And the cause? I’m almost too embarrassed to post this but hey ho…
1623166561855.png


One of the spacers from the upper cam cover:
1623166574323.png


Must have dropped in without me noticing. Such a silly error!
 

Jason473

ClioSport Club Member
  Clio 182 FF
So then it was head rebuild time.
1623166659815.png


I removed all 16 valves (mega spring compressor lent to me by my old man!):
1623166670294.png

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4 of the exhaust ones looked like this:
1623166689563.png


Took care to keep everything in order:
1623166696570.png


Ground in 16x new valves:
1623166705511.png

1623166718393.png


Gave everything a thorough clean up! Nail varnish remover works wonders on the old headgasket remnants:
1623166725942.png


New stem seals fitted:
1623166738686.png


Freshly ground in valves refitted:
1623166767491.png
 

Jason473

ClioSport Club Member
  Clio 182 FF
Top of the block cleaned up and new HG fitted:
1623166821816.png


Head refitted using new bolts and new exhaust gasket.

Hydraulic lifters refitted along with roller rockers. I did check these over thoroughly and all looked to be fine. I measured them all against in each other and there was very little variation between them. I’d say that the valves are the weak link in the system, which is definitely a good thing!
1623166836932.png


Cams in and sealant applied to mating faces:
1623166844974.png


Rocker cover refitted (along with new genuine Renaults camshaft oil seals):
1623166854500.png

1623166864026.png


So, all in all not too difficult a job and not really any different to any other head rebuild I have done.

I didn’t need to replace all 16 valves but I would have been silly not to seeing as it was all apart. I’d say the worst part (aside from the valve retaining collets which is always fiddley) was refitting the cylinder head and ensuring the HG stayed in the correct position. However, this was largely down to having the car jacked up quite high and the engine lifted quite high on top of that meaning that the head was sloping backwards quite considerably.

So now onto the timing.

Firstly, I had to order a new crank pulley as the old one got mashed up by the spacer:
1623166874047.png
 

Jason473

ClioSport Club Member
  Clio 182 FF
I already had a new genuine Renault timing kit:
1623166976581.png


Fitting the belt was a bit of a ball ache and probably the most difficult part of a cambelt change on this particular engine IMO. I had already fitted and torqued up the new idlers at this point. Access is tight so I wasn’t keen on removing them to fit the belt. I ended up sliding the belt on at the same time as the tensioner.
1623167025805.png


It is important to locate the tab on the tensioner with the corresponding slot in the head. I basically found this impossible from above. I discovered that you could get quite good access from beneath the car (albeit a bit awkward) to guide it into position with a long screwdriver – or flywheel locking tool as Renault refer to them as:
1623167035054.png


You can clearly see the tab in the slot in this image:
1623167047212.png


After setting the tensioner – err tension (I checked this way more than the 6 revolutions recommended by Manuel), the next job was to torque the crank bolt. I used a new bolt for this although the old one was still in spec.

Before I started, I locked the crank at TDC using the Renault locking tool and dropped my dipstick in cylinder #1. I made a mark on the dipstick that lined up with the chamfer on the top of the spark plug bore so that I had a visual indicator of when I was approaching TDC. Before tightening the bolt, I removed the TDC pin and span the crank back 1/4 turn so the pistons were halfway up their stroke to minimize the risk of pistons and valves making contact – again! I locked the flywheel by jamming a screwdriver in the flywheel as per the manual.

I followed the manual at tightened to 20Nm followed by and 130 degrees. I reckon this equates to 115 - 120Nm.

I marked the bolt head, washer and pulley using the points of the Hex as the angular reference (basically 1/3 of a turn plus a bit)

Before (This is before I marked the end point with marker pen so I drew it on in paint for this image!) The marks on the washer and pulley are to ensure that they didn’t move during tightening:
1623167063256.png


Fully tightened:
1623167075111.png


I’ve read all sorts of torque figures – and seen 130 – 140Nm quoted quite regularly but I am confident this is way too tight. I initially started doing it this way, but it just felt wrong to the point that I got all worried and lost trust in my torque wrench so spent ages faffing about checking it was in calibration!
1623167094968.png


Pleased to say it was pretty spot on!

With the crank pulley now correctly tightened it was onto locking the cam pulleys and setting the timing.

TDC pin in and cam and pulley locking tools fitted:
1623167210454.png

1623167129980.png


It took 2 attempts to get the horse shoe tool nice sliding fit. On the 2nd go I put a feeler gauge under the front edge of the inlet cam to offset the slight twisting applied during tightening. Not sure on the thickness but it was the thickest that I could squeeze in but it was still pretty thin. Seemed to do the trick. I checked the timing many, many times after this but am happy with the result!

 

DavidDave

ClioSport Club Member
Oh mate! Gutted to read this, but at the same time pretty It must be nice to know everything is new and properly sorted! Wish I had your skills! Mine is due it’s belts in November, I’ll be dropping the car off once I decide on who to use!
 

Jason473

ClioSport Club Member
  Clio 182 FF
Once I’d made myself happy that the timing was correct, I fitted a new dephaser blanking cap.
1623167237316.png

1623167438178.png


Refitted aux belt etc as per before. Cranked over by hand before holding my breath and…

I was quite chuffed with myself.

So i reassembled the front of the car, keen to get the coolant system bled and take it for a test drive:
1623167689188.png


Why is there a puddle of coolant under the car???
1623167724985.png


Great. So I pulled out the offending hose and ordered a set of silicone ones and new clamps to replace the lot with. To be fair i have jacked the engine up and down loads which has probably stressed the old rubber hoses so I'm not that surprised it spit TBH.

Hoses arrived at lunchtime today so will fit them this evening. Still waiting on the coolant to arrive from RPD then all being well, first drive tomorrow. We'll see!
 

Porl

ClioSport Club Member
Well that was an aux change and a half! Good job fixing it rather than burning th lot😂. I guess if you've been that deep in an engine before it's not that daunting but episodes like this make me reconsider wanting to do a belt change myself😟.
 

Touring_Rob

ClioSport Club Member
Top marks, what a total pain in the balls that turned into! Glad you got it sorted mate.

I once rebuild an engine, spent hours and hours measuring everything up, swapping shells about to get perfect bearing clearances etc. Just before fitting sump figured I would turn the crank with everything properly torqued up --- would it turn? would it f**k. Eventually found out that the guy I had bought the block from had two blocks and two bags of bearing caps, he had sent me the wrong set of caps and sold the rest. Right pain in the vagina that was.
 

Jason473

ClioSport Club Member
  Clio 182 FF
Oh mate! Gutted to read this, but at the same time pretty It must be nice to know everything is new and properly sorted! Wish I had your skills! Mine is due it’s belts in November, I’ll be dropping the car off once I decide on who to use!

I'm hoping oil leak wise that's it now (well from the engine at least!) and yeah nice knowing everything is fresh!
I dunno mate, doesn't take much skill to drop something behind the cam cover haha, although I do not recommend it!

Fair play for tackling all that!

Everyone makes mistakes 👍

Cheers buddy

Well that was an aux change and a half! Good job fixing it rather than burning th lot😂. I guess if you've been that deep in an engine before it's not that daunting but episodes like this make me reconsider wanting to do a belt change myself😟.

Torching the thing was definitely considered! Annoying thing is, if I had actually changed the timing belt in the first instance I probably would have noticed something had dropped down in there!
Its not too bad a job tho if you can take your time over a couple of weeks of evenings. Its all made difficult by being so tight in the bay. I think I would be quite straightforward with the engine out. The actual setting of the timing is the easy bit!

Was gutted reading the first few posts but

View attachment 1542516

Good to see you fixed it up and learnt your lesson haha

Hahaha, lesson most certainly learnt!

Top marks, what a total pain in the balls that turned into! Glad you got it sorted mate.

I once rebuild an engine, spent hours and hours measuring everything up, swapping shells about to get perfect bearing clearances etc. Just before fitting sump figured I would turn the crank with everything properly torqued up --- would it turn? would it f**k. Eventually found out that the guy I had bought the block from had two blocks and two bags of bearing caps, he had sent me the wrong set of caps and sold the rest. Right pain in the vagina that was.

Cheers buddy and thanks once again for the timing tools.

Ah man, sounds like a nightmare! Nothing worse than the feeling of having to undo all of your hard work is there! My Mrs cannot understand why I enjoy working on cars!


Box of silicone hoses arrived yesterday:
1623224931056.png


Went for some MTC Motorsport ones from eBay: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/264640519539

Fit and quality seem to be ok and for the price I can't complain. Much easier to put on than the old one piece lower one was to take out!
1623225034106.png


So now I'm just waiting for my Coolant to arrive from RPD, then it should be a case of filling and bleeding! Really hoping that there are no leaks. The downside of a silicone hose kit is that there are more joints to leak!
1623225123408.png
 

Jason473

ClioSport Club Member
  Clio 182 FF
Coolant arrived as planned on Wednesday, got the system filled and bled then went straight out to get some fuel!
1623402233797.png


Thought I'd grab a picture of the mileage just to record when all the work was done.
1623402307833.png


Pleased to report that after a brief 15 mile drive Wednesday night all appeared to be in order, no loss of coolant and the car drove faultlessly.

I had to drop the mother in law back in Ringwood last night so obviously took the 182. Again, it performed really well even managed to average 40.3 MPG on the trip down. Lets just say that the drive home was in a much more 'spirited' fashion and I may have taken a detour across the Salisbury plain.

Really pleased with how it drives now. Its a completely different beast to when I first got it, the suspension refresh has completely transformed the drive. It now feels really planted and not crashy at all, with the torque and bump steer I previously experienced eliminated. I still need to take it in for a proper alignment so may see a slight improvement again. No rattles or creaks from the interior which surprised me, so another win there! I might look into adding some sound deadening as the exhaust is still a bit droney at certain RPM's but I'm in no rush to do this!

Stopped to grab a few pics - makes a change from my usual driveway shots:
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