Keeping it strictly N/A

[Chip-mk1]

What is your budget like for replacing it if you have an off on the first race.

On trackdays people generally keep their distance and if someone else makes a mistake you are going to be very unlucky to suffer as a result (although it IS still possible) but when racing if someone else makes a mistake it could very easily write your car off for you.

So whatever you budget is, I would keep half of it back for mechanical repairs and potential accident damage fixing etc.

 

[M19TNR]

Have you done many track days?

Yes I have done quite a few in my other cars, and friends cars.

I've also raced Karts as a youngster and starting racing auto grass with a friend, until I broke my ankle and couldn't race the rest of the season. Hence, we want to do some proper racing, and we are going together for this series, hopefully!

This was all decided in the pub, and we thought that with me already owning the clio sat in the garage, we could fully prep this and with it being so much lighter that it could challenge the Hondas. We didn't know that over £50k had been spent on them, as I was under the impression that cheque book teams were frowned upon at CSCC events. So I'll have to give him a ring and see what he thinks we should do :/

As tbh, we both have pretty quick everyday cars, and track days aren't out of the question in these. So maybe going down a class is a good idea and sell the clio to fund the new car.

 

[M19TNR]

What is your budget like for replacing it if you have an off on the first race.

On trackdays people generally keep their distance and if someone else makes a mistake you are going to be very unlucky to suffer as a result (although it IS still possible) but when racing if someone else makes a mistake it could very easily write your car off for you.

So whatever you budget is, I would keep half of it back for mechanical repairs and potential accident damage fixing etc.

We both fortunately have decent jobs, so its not too bad if we have a 'mare haha

 

[Cup_Phil]

Depends on budget really, but the Burpspeed guys have probably stuck 15k+ into their clio, & the Honda's still win pretty much every race. They are ex-touring car spec cars afterall, with pretty much limitless budgets.

The 1.6 class from memory has more 'normal' people in it, with the costs of building a decent spec saxo/106/206/fiesta considerably less than building a decent clio. Here are some price example for you:

1. Quaife LSD - saxo £600, clio 1200
2. Cams, ITB's & ECU - saxo £1850, clio £4000

You could build a very competitive saxo for 4-5 grand, a clio will need 3x that, and still not be capable of winning its class. Imho.

This man speaks so much sense

You could buy a 106 gti, chuck a sandy brown engine on bike bodies in it, diff etc.. for £6-7k
It'd cost double that for a clio build

 

[Porkie]

Do a few trackdays in the Clio... get Clio thing out your system AND have some fun in the 182. (sounds to me like you always been a fan... and now they are worth pennies you wanna do whole Clio race car thing?)

Then buy a proper racecar IF you wanna go racing.

Or prep and race the Clio! you wont be at the front.... but you dont have to be to be enjoying yourself.

Racing will offer you a buzz that you just wont get from trackdays. BUT the potential for heartache and pain is also much bigger!

You need to make up your mind what you want....

Meantime. Few trackdays in Clio wont hurt! just dont spend anything on it!

I am at Bedford on saturday 25th Feb. Still places available. Come along!

 

[Chip-mk1]

Yes I have done quite a few in my other cars, and friends cars.

I've also raced Karts as a youngster and starting racing auto grass with a friend, until I broke my ankle and couldn't race the rest of the season. Hence, we want to do some proper racing, and we are going together for this series, hopefully!

This was all decided in the pub, and we thought that with me already owning the clio sat in the garage, we could fully prep this and with it being so much lighter that it could challenge the Hondas. We didn't know that over £50k had been spent on them, as I was under the impression that cheque book teams were frowned upon at CSCC events. So I'll have to give him a ring and see what he thinks we should do :/

As tbh, we both have pretty quick everyday cars, and track days aren't out of the question in these. So maybe going down a class is a good idea and sell the clio to fund the new car.

You sound like you have the right approach now, if you want to go racing, rather than just pick a car you already have, start with a blank sheet of paper and find a decent single make series or similar to run in and then buy an already competitive car to do so.

Personally if i had enough spare time for example, I would probably go and buy an old school "mighty mini" and campaign that, but I'd buy one thats had reasonable finishes recently rather than build one myself as its cheaper that way.

 

[M19TNR]

This man speaks so much sense

You could buy a 106 gti, chuck a sandy brown engine on bike bodies in it, diff etc.. for £6-7k
It'd cost double that for a clio build

Well as I've said, this is all new to me about the extent of the Hondas. So all this is good advice....

Any other competitive cars apart from a 106gti or Saxo? considering the advice about the Zetec-S

 

[Porkie]

This was all decided in the pub, and we thought that with me already owning the clio sat in the garage, we could fully prep this and with it being so much lighter that it could challenge the Hondas. .

I was thinking this may have been the case

Only joking

 

[Chip-mk1]

Well as I've said, this is all new to me about the extent of the Hondas. So all this is good advice....

Any other competitive cars apart from a 106gti or Saxo? considering the advice about the Zetec-S

Zetec-S is an easy engine to get to about 180bhp or so, then you need to start thinking about going dry sump etc.

I mapped an MWM built one recently at just over 170bhp and that was just:
Neil roper head
ITBs
Some very hot MWM camshafts
Standard bottom end with pocketed pistons

Total cost was under 5K IIRC, bit more compression and it would have done 180


Cheap way to get a pretty powerful 1600 IMHO, lmited to just over 8K on standard rods though really, and likewise the oil pump doesnt want to go much further.

 

[Porkie]

have you thought about Caterham Academy?

http://www.caterham.co.uk/assets/html/showroom/academy.html

You can sell car at end of year if you want some money back.

 

[Dan519]

the front row cars in tintops are mostly ex-BTCC/britcar. Serious metal.

If you lower your sights a bit and aim to be competative amongst everyone else you'll have more fun. I believe it cost aroung 8k to convert from Jay's old track car to the race car, and thats with already having a significant amount of parts, and using a standard engine.

I would: prep the shell to the highest standard you can, with a good cage, get the best suspension you can, then run a stock engine, possibly with a standalone ECU for simplicity (strip out all non essential wiring and systems, bin all the CAN-bus). You're then free to upgrade and add to the spec as you feel the power of the car is holding you back more than your ability or the suspension setup

 

[Chip-mk1]

have you thought about Caterham Academy?

http://www.caterham.co.uk/assets/html/showroom/academy.html

You can sell car at end of year if you want some money back.

Proper racing for sensible money that IMHO

MWM had one of those in recently for some maintainance while I was down there and its a pretty good option, handle well and stop well, and being a standard engine tend to be very reliable.

 

[welshname]

Still think the Zetec-S isn't as good of a base car as the Saxo's and Pug's. Bottom ends fail and rusting being the main issues with the MK5. For the money I'd sooner stick it in a pug or saxo and see more gains, more reliability and have considerably more fun. The handling on the 106's and saxo's is much better too.

 

[Chip-mk1]

Still think the Zetec-S isn't as good of a base car as the Saxo's and Pug's. Bottom ends fail and rusting being the main issues with the MK5. For the money I'd sooner stick it in a pug or saxo and see more gains, more reliability and have considerably more fun. The handling on the 106's and saxo's is much better too.

TBH the replacement bottom ends are cheap enough its not a big issue, and they dont fail *that* often anyway.

Also you can use the 1.7 crank and an overbore to cheat your way up in capacity a lot easier than with a saxo

That said, i do agree saxos are a good option.

 

[Sir_Dave]

Well as I've said, this is all new to me about the extent of the Hondas. So all this is good advice....

Any other competitive cars apart from a 106gti or Saxo? considering the advice about the Zetec-S

Have a read of this thread: http://www.cliosport.net/forum/showthread.php?578473-172-Cup-Racecar

Nick's one of my best mates, & looked into building his car into a competitor in the CSCC Tin Tops series. In the end, he broke the car, was simply going to cost too much to be competitive in the 2.0 class. Is quite a decent discussion in the 1st few pages of the thread.

 

[Porkie]

. We didn't know that over £50k had been spent on them, as I was under the impression that cheque book teams were frowned upon at CSCC events.

WAY over £50k has been spent on them!!!! They are proper ex TOP level race cars that have now come down to club level racing.

and they arent cheque book race teams... they are just people who realise that the best way to be competitive is to buy a car that NOW isnt that expensive but was once built raced and developed for a MUCH higher level of motorsport.

 

[Chip-mk1]

WAY over £50k has been spent on them!!!! They are proper ex TOP level race cars that have now come down to club level racing.

Im sure thats true, the SEATs that xpsort have were 48K new, and they are a far more mundane spec as it was just for a single make racing series.

Quarter million is a piece of cake to spend on a PROPER race car.

 

[Jonny1*2]

From watching at Oulton, you'll be better off going Civic if you're intent on the 2.0L class. As mentioned the 1.6 class would be significantly cheaper. Even Jay and Tony said that they would go for 106gti if their 172 was completely totalled. They are by no means the slowest out there, but the civics are pulling significantly more power and they are much cheaper to tune. Saying that, as mentioned about, an ex-BTCC car would be a good option.

 

[Silent_Scone]

both cheaper and easier to tune. So much easier it's scary.. the tegs especially

 

[welshname]

Yeah personally I wouldn't enter the 2.0 series with a clio. You just cant compete.

For the same price as the clio build you could have a 1.6 running the same power, lighter weight, cheaper to repair and be able to properly compete.

 

[Chip-mk1]

Could be a site slogan in there somewhere:

Cliosport.net - Backing the wrong horse since 2004

 

[welshname]

Could be a site slogan in there somewhere:

Cliosport.net - Backing the wrong horse since 2004

It would need to be longer than that..

cliosport.net - Backing the wrong horse since 2004, but still beating anything in the twistiez, and a better car than an XE'd Corsa B

 

[Chip-mk1]

It would need to be longer than that..

cliosport.net - Backing the wrong horse since 2004, but still beating anything in the twistiez, and a better car than an XE'd Corsa B

Lol, I certainly prefer our 172 on track to our Corsa B, definately a "better car" like you say, but also a lot slower for the same spend, those XE engines are far better than an F4R for modifying.

 

[welshname]

Lol, I certainly prefer our 172 on track to our Corsa B, definately a "better car" like you say, but also a lot slower for the same spend, those XE engines are far better than an F4R for modifying.

Definitely, far too front end heavy though. On bodies they are great fun but personally I would only have one in standard guise to embarrass a few people for a laugh.

 

[Chip-mk1]

Definitely, far too front end heavy though. On bodies they are great fun but personally I would only have one in standard guise to embarrass a few people for a laugh.

Yeah mine's on bodies and I threw some hotter cams and steel rods at it so it revs better.

Cost peanunts, goes like stink, and much better torque lower down than an F4R too.

Just a shame an XE wont easily fit in a Mk2 clio and a corsa B corners like a whale on a sheet of ice.


TBH I only have the corsa as I working a lot writing Tuning articles for Total Vauxhall at the time I got it and it was a cheap way to have something interesting in the "staff cars" section, lol

 

[Sir_Dave]

EFA.

Cliosport.net. The definitive guide to making your 1*2 handle more like a Saxo. Sponsored by Whiteline & Eibach camber bolts.

 

[Toastfrenzy]

You have to decide if you want a chance to win your class or not really. Sam and I are simply in it to be as competitive as we can be but we've discussed damage\off's etc and have come up with "if in doubt concede the place"...there is no way we'll be podium finishers (unless there's a lot of DNF), no last minute dives up the inside, so once that's out in the open makes the options a lot clearer. Though we'll be holding\defending our position on the racing line as much as we can, it's a BIG car if placed right, unless being lapped LOL....

The stuff we've done on the car is resonable and has already improved the track experiance no end....don't think we'll be getting ITB's \mangement.. think post cams there will be not left on the list maybe an LSD further down the line but really not required for where we are experiance wise atm.

Most of all we're having fun.............................no point otherwise.

 

[welshname]

LOL! So true, still, the image for most saxo's is BADDDD. Clio is going that way too. I couldn't have one as a daily, it would have to be a stripped out track **** and weekend toy.

 

[Jonny1*2]

He says with a zetec S avatar

 

[welshname]

I own a zetec-s, as I like them, they are still a bag of s**t tbh, but I love it. Car choice is mainly to do with insurance though, it's £1800 for this alone, VTS is a fair whack more (and could never have one as a daily) and obviously the same with the 106 GTi. For a road car and occasional track day toy I'd still have a clio, their appeal is that they can do both to a reasonable standard rather than you having to own 2 separate cars.

 

[Porkie]

For a road car and occasional track day toy I'd still have a clio, their appeal is that they can do both to a reasonable standard rather than you having to own 2 separate cars.

Brilliantly put.

 

[Nick172Cup]

Have a read of this thread: http://www.cliosport.net/forum/showthread.php?578473-172-Cup-Racecar

Nick's one of my best mates, & looked into building his car into a competitor in the CSCC Tin Tops series. In the end, he broke the car, was simply going to cost too much to be competitive in the 2.0 class. Is quite a decent discussion in the 1st few pages of the thread.

Following on from this...

All i'll say is building a car can be fun, however driving the dam things better!

Jay Payne and Tony Hunter (Burpspeed guys) both gave me lots of knowledgable advice with regards to racing, if you havent already look at costings per race yet I think you should look at that. Total fees per race are roughly £1,000, entry fee, fuel, transportation etc etc the list goes on. In the long run would of I gone as far as I did with the car in the above link? No definately not, I would of just bought a 'ready to race' car and spend the rest of the money on testing/driving/refining the car/racing.