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Kenny's Kup
- Thread starter Kenny.s
- Start date
Well it looks like my concerns about getting the Tilton pedal box to fit where justified :dapprove:
Spent most of the weekend working on it, I now have the seat rails and mounting lugs made up (no pictures unfortunately, forgot the camera both days!) and the seat is sitting in it's final position. Unfortunately there's just not enough room in the car to have that style of pedal box, it could be fitted but the position is far from ideal and therefor I dont want to attempt it as without a servo it's even more important to have your leg at the right angle/positon to be able to use it properly and have confidence in it.
A pedal box with rear facing cylinders might fit but I've not been able to find a decent quailty one of those available for similar money to the Tilton one above so it looks like i'll be going back to the original pedal set up.
I may revisit this at some point once the car is finished and i've has some use out it but for now I'll press on and use the servo set up, if I'm honest it may not be a bad thing initially as I can learn the car without having to get my head round non-servo'd brakes.
A mate my be interested in it for his race car so should be able to shift it and get my money back to spend on some other bits
Kenny
Spent most of the weekend working on it, I now have the seat rails and mounting lugs made up (no pictures unfortunately, forgot the camera both days!) and the seat is sitting in it's final position. Unfortunately there's just not enough room in the car to have that style of pedal box, it could be fitted but the position is far from ideal and therefor I dont want to attempt it as without a servo it's even more important to have your leg at the right angle/positon to be able to use it properly and have confidence in it.
A pedal box with rear facing cylinders might fit but I've not been able to find a decent quailty one of those available for similar money to the Tilton one above so it looks like i'll be going back to the original pedal set up.
I may revisit this at some point once the car is finished and i've has some use out it but for now I'll press on and use the servo set up, if I'm honest it may not be a bad thing initially as I can learn the car without having to get my head round non-servo'd brakes.
A mate my be interested in it for his race car so should be able to shift it and get my money back to spend on some other bits
Kenny
Hi Kenny, seat looks great and good seat position I have done he same in mine but I have had to extend the gearlinkage and move it all back in the car are you planning to do the same or can you still reach it? Unfortunately there is a cross member in the floor so now mine is back its along way back and it still needs to be adjusted 60mm further forwards but I have attached a photo to show what I have done. Shame about the pedal box as that looks awesome!
I have done he same in mine but I have had to extend the gearlinkage and move it all back in the car are you planning to do the same or can you still reach it? Unfortunately there is a cross member in the floor so now mine is back its along way back and it still needs to be adjusted 60mm further forwards but I have attached a photo to show what I have done. Shame about the pedal box as that looks awesome! Shame. Those pedals look mint.
What's the advantage of them though
Yeah they were very nice :dapprove: I was in denial for at least 2hrs as I tried every combination possible to get them to fit, the only option that was anywhere near close was to raise them up about 100-125mm off the floor in order to get them far enough forward but then that gave all sorts of issues with them getting in the way of where the steering column comes through the bulkhead, all in all just too much of a compromise.
The advantages? it allows you to set your front/rear brake balance by altering the cylinder sizes accordingly and then fine tune by moving the balance bar, some will also say they provide better feedback as there's no artifical servo assistance in the middle.
Downsides, you need to get your head round not having a servo and getting used to pressing the pedal hard enough.
Matt e
ClioSport Club Member
theres one for sale on ebay atm
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Clio-172-...CarParts_SM&hash=item45fe5532b6#ht_500wt_1413
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Clio-172-...CarParts_SM&hash=item45fe5532b6#ht_500wt_1413
Hi Kenny, seat looks great and good seat position
View attachment 66440
Looks good Ash, you've got your seat rails a lot further back than I do, what make is your cage, looks like it gives you a lot more room.
Where my seat is now I'm just right for the standard pedal box, hope it never happens lol but with the brake pedal on the floor my leg is still slightly bent. I'm nearly 6ft but I've got stumpy legs and a long back.
I know the bit of cross member your talking about, I spoke to the class eligibility scruitineer about it, he was ok for me to modify and remove it if need be, justification being that sufficent additional tubing/strength has been added else where. However, now that the seat is in I've had another look at it and I think I can move the lever back enough to suit me without it hitting the crossmember.
Yeah I've seen those, but not all that impressed with the quailty, know a couple of guys who have used them on other cars.
I think i'll go with the standard pedal set up for now, at least till i get the car built and running, it's something that can be revisited at a later date if need be, would probably go for an underslung type.
Just need to get a proportioning valve for the back, might also have to re-think my 2 pot AP's for the front as I was going to have to run different cylinder size for them to work properly
It was sent to Rollcentre because they Homologate on site and could tailor the design to my requirements. I did this because all the other cages I had looked at had all the bracing in line with the b Pillar and this causes issues mainly with seats like the Taurus with head protection and means they need to be mounted alot further back. I think they did a really good job to be fair and it's looking good now it's painted
Ah right, I did wonder if it was a bespoke job as I didnt recognise it.
You not want to ditch the oe seat mounts? easy bit of weight to lose.
Taking a clue from your user name, I assume your quite tall? with the seat that far back there's no way i'd reach the pedals lol
You not want to ditch the oe seat mounts? easy bit of weight to lose.
Taking a clue from your user name, I assume your quite tall? with the seat that far back there's no way i'd reach the pedals lol
I originally wanted to but was told that they are good for strength and rigidity so left them in but it would of looked much better without them, but if it saves me a re-shell I will be happy lol. Yes haha large in general
NorthloopCup
ClioSport Moderator
^^^
Agree on how flimsy the original seat mountings are. I used a seat rail kit and removed the original mounts. Once welded in i'd say they're definitely stronger than original.
I would imagine that the originals are designed to dissipate the energy in a side impact?
Agree on how flimsy the original seat mountings are. I used a seat rail kit and removed the original mounts. Once welded in i'd say they're definitely stronger than original.
I would imagine that the originals are designed to dissipate the energy in a side impact?
Yes I was quite set on taking them out but I am relatively inexperienced so have just left them and trusted the guy's building the car
Had a stupid course to do for work Monday to Wednesday so thats messed up most of this week :dapprove:
Anyway, got back to the shed about 2pm today and carried on where I left off last week, got the seat rails finished off and tacked in, made from 40mm T45 tube, bit overkill but I had it left over so figured I might as well use it, hopefully my mate will be able to pop up after work tomorrow and weld them in properly, will do the same for the passenger side.
Wanted to get the seat as far over into the middle of the car as i could, which required a dint in the tunnel
Plan to move the gearlever back to approximately the position shown below, feels pretty good in that position, should just be a straight drop down off the steering wheel
Anyway, got back to the shed about 2pm today and carried on where I left off last week, got the seat rails finished off and tacked in, made from 40mm T45 tube, bit overkill but I had it left over so figured I might as well use it, hopefully my mate will be able to pop up after work tomorrow and weld them in properly, will do the same for the passenger side.
Wanted to get the seat as far over into the middle of the car as i could, which required a dint in the tunnel
Plan to move the gearlever back to approximately the position shown below, feels pretty good in that position, should just be a straight drop down off the steering wheel
Think it's time to get a new battery for my camera, can barely get 10 pics from it on a full charge.
Drivers seat tubes and brackers are now finished and fully welded, today I started on the passenger side, got the tubes cut and tacked into place, tomorrow i'll hopefully get the brackets tacked on then it'll be ready for my mate to weld them in properly.
Also made a bit more progress on the steering column, my Jag XJ40 lower column section arrived today By pure chance I discovered that an XJ40 lower universal joint has the same fitment as the clio rack 14mm across the flats 17mm dia. So I duely chopped it up and extracted the splined bit whichI will then weld into a new bit of 20mm cds tube which I'm making the new column from.
Waiting on a reply from a place in the states for the rest of the steering column bits. I'll add some pictures of this as it will explain a lot easier than writing.
Will also try and make a start on relocating the gear lever tomorrow, hopefully I'll be able to get my camera to take some pictures tomorrow, if not I'll need to break out the good camera but dont really want to leave my SLR laying about when I'm grinding, probably not do it much good!
Drivers seat tubes and brackers are now finished and fully welded, today I started on the passenger side, got the tubes cut and tacked into place, tomorrow i'll hopefully get the brackets tacked on then it'll be ready for my mate to weld them in properly.
Also made a bit more progress on the steering column, my Jag XJ40 lower column section arrived today
By pure chance I discovered that an XJ40 lower universal joint has the same fitment as the clio rack 14mm across the flats 17mm dia. So I duely chopped it up and extracted the splined bit whichI will then weld into a new bit of 20mm cds tube which I'm making the new column from.Waiting on a reply from a place in the states for the rest of the steering column bits. I'll add some pictures of this as it will explain a lot easier than writing.
Will also try and make a start on relocating the gear lever tomorrow, hopefully I'll be able to get my camera to take some pictures tomorrow, if not I'll need to break out the good camera but dont really want to leave my SLR laying about when I'm grinding, probably not do it much good!
Well, camera took more than 10 today but not by much lol
Got the passenger seat rails progressed, starting to get a bit better with the mig, will leave the bit onto the tube for my mate to TIG
Then set about moving the gear lever back a bit, first up was to trim away what I could and see how far back it could go before hitting the cross member
Dont actually remember measuring how far back it's moved, recon probably about 60-70mm but it's ideal there, hand should just drop down off the wheel straight onto it, and it's not too far back either so that my arm is going to hit the seat going for 2nd or 4th.
Cut a plate from some 1.5mm sheet,
Got a bit engrosed again and never took any pics, but I tacked 4 6mm nuts onto the bottom of the plate with the TIG, my mate had given me a few basic pointers the other night so decided it was a good bit to practice on
Seemed to be going ok so bit the bullet and have a go at welding the plate on with it, not brilliant but not the worst either, got some pretty nice runs with it, biggest issue is with contaminants coming through the metal, the 1.5mm sheet is fine but no matter how clean the surface of the tunnel looks it still seems to pull in crap and spoils the run and or blows a hole, which you then need to fill.
Tidied up slightly with a flap disc, once painted it'll look fine
The made some wee bits to fill in the corners
Finished
My mate is coming up tomorrow to finish the seat rails, got some more bits for my steering column today so will hopefully crack on with that tomorrow.
Kenny.
Got the passenger seat rails progressed, starting to get a bit better with the mig, will leave the bit onto the tube for my mate to TIG
Then set about moving the gear lever back a bit, first up was to trim away what I could and see how far back it could go before hitting the cross member
Dont actually remember measuring how far back it's moved, recon probably about 60-70mm but it's ideal there, hand should just drop down off the wheel straight onto it, and it's not too far back either so that my arm is going to hit the seat going for 2nd or 4th.
Cut a plate from some 1.5mm sheet,
Got a bit engrosed again and never took any pics, but I tacked 4 6mm nuts onto the bottom of the plate with the TIG, my mate had given me a few basic pointers the other night so decided it was a good bit to practice on
Seemed to be going ok so bit the bullet and have a go at welding the plate on with it, not brilliant but not the worst either, got some pretty nice runs with it, biggest issue is with contaminants coming through the metal, the 1.5mm sheet is fine but no matter how clean the surface of the tunnel looks it still seems to pull in crap and spoils the run and or blows a hole, which you then need to fill.
Tidied up slightly with a flap disc, once painted it'll look fine
The made some wee bits to fill in the corners
Finished
My mate is coming up tomorrow to finish the seat rails, got some more bits for my steering column today so will hopefully crack on with that tomorrow.
Kenny.
After staring at the steering column for too long yesterday trying to figure out where to start, I decided to go to the pub instead and make a fresh start at it today.
Hardest bit was trying to position/visualise something in mid air, so zip tied some box section in and started playing around with things till I got the wheel approx in the right place.
Now that I had something to work to, I set about making the top support bracket, I tacked it but left my mate to weld it up properly
Bit of jiggery pokery later
The beginnings of a steering column, plan is to make up and weld a bracket to the bearing tube which will have a slotted hole in it, so there will be a bit of height adjustment, as it is, that will be the lowest position.
Considering adding in a wheel spacer so the wheel can be move further away if someone else should want a shot.
The bearing tube isnt going to come that far into the car, the two pen lines show where the bearing housing at the end will sit once i've cut the tube and moved it towards the bulkhead a bit. Also planning to fit some vauxhall wiper and indicator stalks (had them laying around and the look ideal for this) so will need to figure that one out and make sure it's not going to be too close to the wheel etc
Hardest bit was trying to position/visualise something in mid air, so zip tied some box section in and started playing around with things till I got the wheel approx in the right place.
Now that I had something to work to, I set about making the top support bracket, I tacked it but left my mate to weld it up properly
Bit of jiggery pokery later
The beginnings of a steering column, plan is to make up and weld a bracket to the bearing tube which will have a slotted hole in it, so there will be a bit of height adjustment, as it is, that will be the lowest position.
Considering adding in a wheel spacer so the wheel can be move further away if someone else should want a shot.
The bearing tube isnt going to come that far into the car, the two pen lines show where the bearing housing at the end will sit once i've cut the tube and moved it towards the bulkhead a bit. Also planning to fit some vauxhall wiper and indicator stalks (had them laying around and the look ideal for this) so will need to figure that one out and make sure it's not going to be too close to the wheel etc
Cheers,
The reason for altering the subframe/wishbone pick ups is to raise the roll centre. When you lower a car the wishbone angle changes, a little is ok as by lowering the car your dropping the centre of gravity but go too far and the roll centre drops more than the COG, the basic result is the car will lean more on it's springs as it effectively has a bigger lever over the spring. To stop the car falling over you need to run stiffer springs which can have obvious downsides.
Perhaps not the best explanation but thats the jist of it, have google and you'll find plenty stuff out there with good diagrams and explanations on the effect of roll centres.
I didnt think about doing that to be honest, it's doable but I'd think there would be quite a bit of work to make the linkage and get it reliable. I've driven a few Type R civics and it is nice having the gear lever up there right next to the wheel but where I've got it now feels pretty good, might not be as close as the Type R but with the wheel lowered slightly it's pretty close.
Home again
While i was away at work I decided I needed to up the ante and get some more weight out of this thing. I've already removed all the obvious bigger chunks so it's going to be hard to make any significant steps, just lots of little bits but they all add up!
So peppering non structural bits of it full of holes seemed like a good place to start
To make it look a bit neater and also stiffen up the panels etc, I would need to flare the holes out. Had a search and found this guy selling them on ebay
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/38MM-HOLE...arts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item19cb3a32c2
I could have bought a few but since I had the facilities I figured I might as well have a go at making a couple on the lathe, only had time to make a 30mm and a 20mm, the 30 is perfect but the flare on the 20mm is a bit small, still, it works well in confined areas.
First bit to get attacked, the front crossmember on these cars is serious thick so I was quite happy to pop a few holes in it
I then turned to one of the doors
The boot has also received the same treatment, will get a pic today.
I had to chop the steering column bracket off again and shorten it back, decided to add a spacer to the column to allow wheel to be moved away to suit another driver if needs be, new revised bracket
Started making up one of the brackets, indicator/wiper stalks sat in position, still need to decide how to mount them but got a few ideas
Kenny.
While i was away at work I decided I needed to up the ante and get some more weight out of this thing. I've already removed all the obvious bigger chunks so it's going to be hard to make any significant steps, just lots of little bits but they all add up!
So peppering non structural bits of it full of holes seemed like a good place to start
To make it look a bit neater and also stiffen up the panels etc, I would need to flare the holes out. Had a search and found this guy selling them on ebay
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/38MM-HOLE...arts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item19cb3a32c2
I could have bought a few but since I had the facilities I figured I might as well have a go at making a couple on the lathe, only had time to make a 30mm and a 20mm, the 30 is perfect but the flare on the 20mm is a bit small, still, it works well in confined areas.
First bit to get attacked, the front crossmember on these cars is serious thick so I was quite happy to pop a few holes in it
I then turned to one of the doors
The boot has also received the same treatment, will get a pic today.
I had to chop the steering column bracket off again and shorten it back, decided to add a spacer to the column to allow wheel to be moved away to suit another driver if needs be, new revised bracket
Started making up one of the brackets, indicator/wiper stalks sat in position, still need to decide how to mount them but got a few ideas
Kenny.
TrackCar & F30 330d
I havnt been on here for ages, but just read through your progress. The car is looking fantastic, great effort your doing. Keep up the good work.
Cheers guys
Made a bit more progress yesterday, but no pictures i'm afraid.
Did a bit more work on the steering column brackets and then started work on the mounting for the indicator & wiper stalks.
Some of you may be wondering why I've opted to put Vauxhall stalks on it, well one reason is that I've still got a box of spare odds and sods in the attic from my Vauxhall days, think these were for one of my Cavy GSi's as they dont have a rear wiper so they're ideal for this, I also think they look quite good without any cowling on them.
I decided it made sense to keep indicators & wipers on stalks as thats about 5 or 6 less switches to put on the dash panel and they're much more intuitive than looking for a switch on a dash panel etc and obviously means the indicators will self cancel.
Got some ideas for the switch/dash panel, will start mocking a few things up next week and see what they look like.
Made a bit more progress yesterday, but no pictures i'm afraid.
Did a bit more work on the steering column brackets and then started work on the mounting for the indicator & wiper stalks.
Some of you may be wondering why I've opted to put Vauxhall stalks on it, well one reason is that I've still got a box of spare odds and sods in the attic from my Vauxhall days, think these were for one of my Cavy GSi's as they dont have a rear wiper so they're ideal for this, I also think they look quite good without any cowling on them.
I decided it made sense to keep indicators & wipers on stalks as thats about 5 or 6 less switches to put on the dash panel and they're much more intuitive than looking for a switch on a dash panel etc and obviously means the indicators will self cancel.
Got some ideas for the switch/dash panel, will start mocking a few things up next week and see what they look like.
This is one of the very few threads that actually interest me on CS, so an amazing amount of work done and mostly by yourself! Would love to have the knowledge etc to do this, really cant wait to see the finish piece. Should weigh hardly anything and with the trick suspension geometry/modifications should handle well also!
