KTEC DTH ITBs without aerocatches

[Ph1 Tom]

Has anyone managed to fit the DTH ITBs from Ktec without removing the slam panel and bonnet catch?

I asked Ktec and they said it might be possible with shorter trumpets and air filter but they haven't tried as it might lose torque.

The AT Poer kit fits fine thought and that makes good torque, although you can get longer trumpets for that which do need the slam panel removing and they do increase torque.

 

[Dan519]

the AT kit makes significantly less torque on a spec for spec basis. Same engine will make 5-10lb/ft less on AT's which in NA tuning is important. Do it all with the loongest you can physically fit under the bonnet, or don't bother as far as I'm concerned

 

[Ph1 Tom]

Ideally I wanted to avoid the whole Polo rad, bonnet butchering route.

I agree with your reasoning. After all, it's torque that moves the car along

 

[mi16chris]

U can keep the stock rad but bonnet catchs R a must mate (with ktec kit)

 

[Cup_Phil]

There was a ph1 built a few years back and featured in fast car... in fact here -> http://www.rsfabrications.com/2010/01/14/renault-clio-172-sport-fastcar-in-for-raidiator-ram-airbox/

He had a bar fabricated that kept the bonnet catch so you could just use the normal bonnet latch.

Nice solutions but obviously custom fabricated by rsfabrications so not sure how expensive it would be

The airbox/scoop they made was p**n too!

 

[Mr R.]

Ohhhh, very nice indeed

Even if you didn't use there intake the bonnet catch bar could still be done.

 

[mi16chris]

Some pics to give u a idea of room

 

[mark123]

Are they 60mm trumpets Chris?
​

 

[Cup_Phil]

It's deceptive those photos - the actual bonnet latch is chunky as hell

My trumpets hit it
I really wouldn't sacrifice the torque (which lets face it is the main reason for ITB's) just because you don't want to cut the bonnet up.

Either get a bar made up (which shouldn't really be too much money when done by someone who knows what they're doing - or get bonnet pins on
I'm never looking back after going up to 120mm trumpets

 

[Mr R.]

Cheers lad's, bonnet bar its going to have to be.
I dont mind fitting a smaller rad but not cutting my bonnet.

 

[Ph1 Tom]

Are you still on the standard rad Phil?

​I know someone who could fab a bar to take the bonnet catch.

 

[mi16chris]

Are they 60mm trumpets Chris?
​

I ur using the dth kit the ttrumpets don't need to be as long due to the design of the kit as far as I know , there just what ever came on the kit from ktec mate

 

[Dan519]

There was a ph1 built a few years back and featured in fast car... in fact here -> http://www.rsfabrications.com/2010/01/14/renault-clio-172-sport-fastcar-in-for-raidiator-ram-airbox/

He had a bar fabricated that kept the bonnet catch so you could just use the normal bonnet latch.

Nice solutions but obviously custom fabricated by rsfabrications so not sure how expensive it would be

The airbox/scoop they made was p**n too!

That let go the day before it was due to drive round europe, bonnet flipped and took out the windscreen

 

[Dan@SJM]

But if you go by that, so do the standard bonnet catches. It was nothing to do with the fabricated work iirc

 

[Ph1 Tom]

Hmmm, maybe the flush aerocatches painted silver to match with some silver anodized alloy screws then.

Don't want to risk writing off the car.

 

[Cup_Phil]

Are you still on the standard rad Phil?

​I know someone who could fab a bar to take the bonnet catch.

No - polo rad. The standard rad rubs against 90mm trumpets and allows no room for a filter.
I don't see the point in fitting £2k bodies - then losing a load of torque by going down to 60mm trumpets rather than just spend the £100 ish on a decent polo rad and fan TBH.

That let go the day before it was due to drive round europe, bonnet flipped and took out the windscreen

But if you go by that, so do the standard bonnet catches. It was nothing to do with the fabricated work iirc

Exactly - considering all 1*2's got recalled for faulty bonnet latches - that has nothing to do with the bar fabricated at all

 

[Martin.]

Do you need to tweak the map when changing the trumpet length?

 

[Chip-mk1]

Do you need to tweak the map when changing the trumpet length?

Yes, Its a TPS versus RPM setup, so for example it gets told "at full throttle at 5K rpm put in X miliseconds of fuel", if you are now swallowing more air at 5Krpm at full throttle, then you now need more fuel as well or the mixture will be wrong.

Any change on a non airmass meter system that doesnt require a remap, hasnt done anything

 

[Chip-mk1]

Hmmm, maybe the flush aerocatches painted silver to match with some silver anodized alloy screws then.

Don't want to risk writing off the car.

What some people do who are really panicking about the standard catch having a problem, is simply put a tether from the bonnet to the top engine mount so that if the bonnet does come up it cant hit the screen anyway.

You just replace one bolt on the top mount mount with a harness eyelet instead, and then you can clip a caribiner onto it, with a bit of cord passing through the bonnet.

 

[Mr R.]

Like that idear chip, thanks its noted.

 

[Chip-mk1]

One of the lads at the newark meet on sunday had it on his car. If you post in that thread and ask they might have a picture.

Just make sure it cant end up in your belts of course, or it will do more harm than good, LOL

 

[Martin.]

Yes, Its a TPS versus RPM setup, so for example it gets told "at full throttle at 5K rpm put in X miliseconds of fuel", if you are now swallowing more air at 5Krpm at full throttle, then you now need more fuel as well or the mixture will be wrong.

Any change on a non airmass meter system that doesnt require a remap, hasnt done anything

Why would a longer trumpet provide more air though?

It's still the same diameter and there's nothing which has changed to block the air flow route.

 

[Chip-mk1]

Why would a longer trumpet provide more air though?

It's still the same diameter and there's nothing which has changed to block the air flow route.

Longer trumpets contain more air, so when the engine gets that air moving during an intake gulp, you end up with effectively a higher mass of air still moving forward towards the end of the intake stroke where the pressure differential is at its smallest, which helps to finish off filling the cylinder better.

Different lengths work better at different RPMs because of this effect, essentially if you want a simplified rule its a case of longer is better at lower rpm and shorter is better at high rpm, the trouble with the shorter kits out there is that they are optimum at about 12K rpm which isnt much use on a normal F4R engine, lol.

To understand these things, you need to look at the engine degree by degree in the cycle and how it will be effected you can just think of it as an engine sucking air in continually and smoothly because it doesnt.

Its a load of boring science waffle to some people, but its important if you want the best results!

 

[Fred@BTM]

That let go the day before it was due to drive round europe, bonnet flipped and took out the windscreen

owner was told NOT TO MESS, he did, ta dar!

 

[Ph1 Tom]

owner was told NOT TO MESS, he did, ta dar!

What did he do to it?

 

[Fred@BTM]

removed it from the car to clean something, didn't line it up - bang

 

[Gray]

Silly Neil

 

[Ph1 Tom]

Ahh, so it's still a viable option then!

 

[Mr R.]

Ahh, so it's still a viable option then!

Very much so.

 

[Keith185]

That setup is what I've been looking into for future plans. Don't want to go down bonnet pin route either if I can avoid it

Fred, did you have any involvement in the one on the silver ph1?

 

[singlespeed]

Following this closely as I will be pretty tight for space with the bodies for the Twingo. Its taken a while, but machining is about to start on the first ones

I'm not realy wanting pins either. Up and over curved runners is a possibility if I find the extensions too short

 

[Chip-mk1]

Wrap around you need to be careful with as funny things happen to air flow when some of the air moving faster than the test due to doing a different radius bend.
Imho the standard Renault f4r bend is probably about as tight as youd want and you are unlikely to manage to make it looser.

 

[singlespeed]

^^^ which is probably why up and over manifolds... clio etc have inlet runners which have an oblong shape as opposed to round.

 

[Chip-mk1]

^^^ which is probably why up and over manifolds... clio etc have inlet runners which have an oblong shape as opposed to round.

Yes by being oblong it reduces the speed differential between the inner and outer radius of the bend, and allows a less tight turn in the first place.
If you start trying to make the same up and over bend with a 45mm circle its going to take a lot more space to achieve the same speed relationship between inner and outer radius, enough that it probably wont fit under the bonnet in fact.