Limp Mode - Electrical? help!

[benwjennings]

Hello all,

I am having some issues with a recent Clio 172 PH2 I purchased. As of late the car would go into limp mode with the electrical fault symbol, a quick restart of the car would solve this and it wouldn’t return for some time. NOW, every time I start the car it will go into limp mode near enough straight away or just as I set off the drive. The revs will hunt constantly when idling and sometimes when I dip the clutch whilst driving it will completely stall. I have also occasionally been getting the solid EML which stays on until cleared. The really strange thing is that when the car is all the way up to temp, it stops going into limp mode and runs as if nothing has happened…

so far I have contact cleaner the big white multi plug, cleaned all fuses and relays, cleaned the accelerator connection and brake pedal switch.

codes I have from a SnapOn are as below
301- Brake Pedal Sensor Circuit
257- Throttle Valve Position Sensor Circuit Coherence Between Track 1 And Track 2
309- Cruise Control/Speed Limiter Brake Pedal Switches

Ideally I don’t want to start chucking throttle pedals and throttle bodies at this for the sake of it, the car performing fine at optimal temp is the really strange part to me hoping someone has had similar or can shed some light.

 

[SharpyClio]

If I took a punt if be thinking break pedal sensor as that seems to be the common theme.

You could reset them and see if it comes back with one as some could be older codes?

 

[benwjennings]

If I took a punt if be thinking break pedal sensor as that seems to be the common theme.

You could reset them and see if it comes back with one as some could be older codes?

Yeah I reset them, will wait to see what it comes up with the next time I plug it in. I just cant imagine how a brake pedal sensor can cause this much grief?! But nothing surprises you with Renaults I guess.

 

[JamesBryan]

The brake pedal sensor won't cause limp mode, only the throttle fault will.

Both brake faults are linked. It could just need the plunger resetting on the switch.

If you've checked and cleaned all the connections, i would be looking at a possible frayed/broken wire or the throttle body itself.

 

[benwjennings]

The brake pedal sensor won't cause limp mode, only the throttle fault will.

Both brake faults are linked. It could just need the plunger resetting on the switch.

If you've checked and cleaned all the connections, i would be looking at a possible frayed/broken wire or the throttle body itself.

Never thought to reset the brake pedal switch actually, will do that just because why not.

Really hoping it’s not a wiring issue but I bet it is lol. I cleaned the throttle body a couple of months ago but only from the outside, I’ll get that disconnected and clean it up as well contact spray the connection to it.

 

[JamesBryan]

Never thought to reset the brake pedal switch actually, will do that just because why not.

Really hoping it’s not a wiring issue but I bet it is lol. I cleaned the throttle body a couple of months ago but only from the outside, I’ll get that disconnected and clean it up as well contact spray the connection to it.

Hopefully it's a simple fix.

Brake switches can be fussy, i had a similar fault on mine and even a new switch set correctly occasionally flashes up the fault 😂

 

[DaveDreads]

257- Throttle Valve Position Sensor Circuit Coherence Between Track 1 And Track 2

This will be what's causing the limp mode, most probably the signal from the accelerator pedal to the throttle body has weakened or is intermittent, probably best to borrow one off someone else's car for a day to see if it fixes it before you commit to buying a replacement throttle body.

 

[hopgop1]

Worth looking at and cleaning up the big white connector in the engine bay fuse box too, often corroded and can cause these sorts of issues. I've been through the limp mode with my 182, although mine was completely random, not dependent on temps, there are a few things it could be.

 

[benwjennings]

This will be what's causing the limp mode, most probably the signal from the accelerator pedal to the throttle body has weakened or is intermittent, probably best to borrow one off someone else's car for a day to see if it fixes it before you commit to buying a replacement throttle body.

I’d be inclined to agree it’s something throttle related purely from the way it hunts etc as if the throttle body isn’t settled. Why the hell it is all fine with up to temp I’ve no idea though.

 

[DaveDreads]

I’d be inclined to agree it’s something throttle related purely from the way it hunts etc as if the throttle body isn’t settled. Why the hell it is all fine with up to temp I’ve no idea though.

They do get gunked up with sh*t (engine temp may free it up a little) and they also wear out over time, a hell of a lot of my electrical issues went away when I swapped the throttle body over.

 

[benwjennings]

Worth looking at and cleaning up the big white connector in the engine bay fuse box too, often corroded and can cause these sorts of issues. I've been through the limp mode with my 182, although mine was completely random, not dependent on temps, there are a few things it could be.

Have done the white connector mate but I think I’m going to do it again just for the sake of it. Did this fix yours or was it something else?

yeah the temp thing is so odd, I’m hoping the likes of Mick from diamond or someone else weighs in with a similar issue. The car runs sweet as a nut when up to temp and can rag the life out of it and it doesn’t go into limp mode.

 

[benwjennings]

They do get gunked up with sh*t and they also wear out over time, a hell of a lot of my electrical issues went away when i swapped the throttle body over.

That’s good to hear mate, some people change them and it makes no difference. it doesn’t look like it’s ever been changed and I’m coming up to 96k miles on a 53 plate.

 

[DaveDreads]

You could clean it with WD40 and a toothbrush, the hinges on the butterfly valve collect crap especially if you have an oil impregnated air filter, but the cutting out issue sounds like a total signal loss, swap for a mates TB and see if that helps.

 

[benwjennings]

You could clean it with WD40 and a toothbrush, the hinges on the butterfly valve collect crap especially if you have an oil impregnated air filter, but the cutting out issue sounds like a total signal loss, swap for a mates TB and see if that helps.

Am I correct in saying the 172/182/197/200 throttle bodies are all the same? Will just help me in locating one to try from a mate.

 

[JamesBryan]

Am I correct in saying the 172/182/197/200 throttle bodies are all the same? Will just help me in locating one to try from a mate.

Ph2 172/182 are the same.

Mk3 197/200 are different.

 

[DaveDreads]

All ph2 172 and 182 TB's are the same.
Ph1 TB's are drive by wire and all have cables, so they won't work.

 

[hopgop1]

Am I correct in saying the 172/182/197/200 throttle bodies are all the same? Will just help me in locating one to try from a mate.

I currently have a 197/200 TB on my 182, they're different part numbers but absolutely identical, Mick at Diamond assured me this was the case when I bought a new one. (1*2 TBs aren't available new from Renault anymore, but 197/200 ones are).

 

[Mr Underhill]

That’s good to hear mate, some people change them and it makes no difference. it doesn’t look like it’s ever been changed and I’m coming up to 96k miles on a 53 plate.

When my old 182 went into limp-mode it was a dirty throttle body as suggested above.

Contact cleaner and WD40 did the trick. I have a perfect working throttle body in my garage which I'll do you an excellent deal on before you splash out for a new one. If you're plumbing for a new TB, K-Tec Racing sell them, usually at a discounted price.

Genuine Renault Clio 2 RS Ph2 & 3 RS Throttle Body - Renault and Renaultsport parts and fitting by K-Tec Racing

Genuine Renault Clio 2 RS Ph2 & 3 RS Throttle Body by Renault from K-Tec Racing Renault

www.k-tecracing.com

 

[JamesBryan]

I currently have a 197/200 TB on my 182, they're different part numbers but absolutely identical, Mick at Diamond assured me this was the case when I bought a new one. (1*2 TBs aren't available new from Renault anymore, but 197/200 ones are).

Are they

I thought the connector was different

 

[hopgop1]

Have done the white connector mate but I think I’m going to do it again just for the sake of it. Did this fix yours or was it something else?

yeah the temp thing is so odd, I’m hoping the likes of Mick from diamond or someone else weighs in with a similar issue. The car runs sweet as a nut when up to temp and can rag the life out of it and it doesn’t go into limp mode.

With mine, I had Mick at Diamond diagnose originally, he found the TB to be at fault, I replaced it with a brand new 197/200 one, fault was gone for a few months but then started reoccurring. I then sourced a verified low mileage 1*2 pedal, no change. What fixed it in the end on mine was getting a replacement ECU (same part no), having it virginised by EFI and swapping it out. I think it's very rare for the ECU to be at fault though unless it's been shorted at some point which is what I suspect happened to my car.

 

[hopgop1]

Are they

I thought the connector was different

Yeah I think the details are in my project thread, but I bought part number 8200110994 and fitted to my 182, they look identical also. Good way of getting a brand new TB for a 1*2 you know will work. I just wanted to rule it out and have my car work, than be questioning a used one that's 15 years old at least.

 

[JamesBryan]

Yeah I think the details are in my project thread, but I bought part number 8200110994 and fitted to my 182, they look identical also.

Mad, my memory must be failing me 😂

Been a while since i've looked at a mk3.

 

[benwjennings]

When my old 182 went into limp-mode it was a dirty throttle body as suggested above.

Contact cleaner and WD40 did the trick. I have a perfect working throttle body in my garage which I'll do you an excellent deal on before you splash out for a new one. If you're plumbing for a new TB, K-Tec Racing sell them, usually at a discounted price.

Genuine Renault Clio 2 RS Ph2 & 3 RS Throttle Body - Renault and Renaultsport parts and fitting by K-Tec Racing

Genuine Renault Clio 2 RS Ph2 & 3 RS Throttle Body by Renault from K-Tec Racing Renault

www.k-tecracing.com

I will be removing it and giving it a clean at some point this week and then I’ll see if any change. If no luck and the other free fixes I can try don’t work then I’ll be in your messages, appreciate it!

 

[benwjennings]

With mine, I had Mick at Diamond diagnose originally, he found the TB to be at fault, I replaced it with a brand new 197/200 one, fault was gone for a few months but then started reoccurring. I then sourced a verified low mileage 1*2 pedal, no change. What fixed it in the end on mine was getting a replacement ECU (same part no), having it virginised by EFI and swapping it out. I think it's very rare for the ECU to be at fault though unless it's been shorted at some point which is what I suspect happened to my car.

Wouldn’t mind a few months trouble free driving lol. I have seen the final outcome leading to it being the ECU, let’s just hope and pray it’s not that, it’s been great for the last 1000 miles since I had it

 

[Simon1975]

Had this in my 182cup changed throttle pedal and body was good for a while but came back during a track season. Went into AW for some works so asked them to look at the white plug he cleaned it all and been good for a year

 

[benwjennings]

Had this in my 182cup changed throttle pedal and body was good for a while but came back during a track season. Went into AW for some works so asked them to look at the white plug he cleaned it all and been good for a year

My white plug wasn’t even that bad sadly(would’ve been the east fix if so lol), but I’m going to give it another going over with some sandpaper at the weekend just to be 100% sure, a lot of the fuses and relays were corroded though.

 

[Simon1975]

My white plug wasn’t even that bad sadly(would’ve been the east fix if so lol), but I’m going to give it another going over with some sandpaper at the weekend just to be 100% sure, a lot of the fuses and relays were corroded though.

I'm told it's always white plug, throttle pedal or body

 

[benwjennings]

UPDATE:
So Saturday I set about cleaning up various parts and sensors to see if that would solve the issues… in short it did not, it aided on other areas but still no fix to limp mode/EML.

• Disconnected the battery
• cleaned all battery terminals
• re cleaned relays, fuses and white plug
• Removed the throttle body and deep cleaned it and connector (relatively clean already)
• Cleaned the crankshaft sensor which was filthy (has already been switched for the updated Renault blue plug)
• Cleaned the MAP sensor and connector
• Removed the scuttle panel etc to clear the drain holes
• Sort of cleaned the PAS switch/sensor, was very mucky

Started the car back up, idled nicely until cold start finished then bosh…. Hunting at idle and the electrical/limp mode light came on. Restarted a few times and the light would either come on quickly or not for a minute or until I depressed the clutch? I went for a drive and as once as the car was up to temperature… no limp mode or EML? Car drove perfectly. Then all of a sudden at a random 40mph roll, no foot on the throttle then limp mode!!! It just makes no sense as to when and why it happens. Restarted and then it didn’t come on for another 15 minutes of driving.

The way the car acts it has to either be a throttle body fubared or a wiring issue. The throttle pedal doesn’t ever have an issue e.g. with response or getting stuck at 3k RPM like people have reported. Is there a possibility a pre cat lambda sensor could cause limp mode?

 

[krappy]

I believe - maybe someone more knowledgeable can confirm - there is another white connector (similar to the one in the engine bay fuse box) located in the area under the scuttle panels/below the wiper mechanism. The wiring from the throttle pedal etc is supposed to run through this. If I am right, then it might be worth looking at this - though would be more of a job to get to it.

Might be worth checking the ecu connector is properly seated and /or give it a clean/reseat as well.

 

[Simon1975]

I know you've cleaned the throttle pedal but if you know someone with a 172 borrow the pedal and swap yours over it's a very simple job. Possibly swap throttle body as well You look to have cleaned everything else

 

[R3k1355]

Have the EML codes gone/changed/get new ones since you cleaned all those sensors up?

Did you check/clean the main earthing points?

 

[benwjennings]

I believe - maybe someone more knowledgeable can confirm - there is another white connector (similar to the one in the engine bay fuse box) located in the area under the scuttle panels/below the wiper mechanism. The wiring from the throttle pedal etc is supposed to run through this. If I am right, then it might be worth looking at this - though would be more of a job to get to it.

Might be worth checking the ecu connector is properly seated and /or give it a clean/reseat as well.

Is this behind the washer bottle by any chance? I was about to do it and I was running out of light and the washer bottle was looking more like 2 bolts and a load of piping so I sacked that off lol. Also with disconnecting the ECU is there any process? Worried about immobiliser issues etc.

 

[benwjennings]

I know you've cleaned the throttle pedal but if you know someone with a 172 borrow the pedal and swap yours over it's a very simple job. Possibly swap throttle body as well You look to have cleaned everything else

Sadly I don’t I only got the 172 as a stop gap so don’t have any mates with one which is a shame. I may just end up buying the two, if they don’t solve the issue I could sell them again but I’m not quite ready to be defeated just yet.

 

[benwjennings]

Have the EML codes gone/changed/get new ones since you cleaned all those sensors up?

Did you check/clean the main earthing points?

So the EML came back whilst it was idling, read it and there was no difference in the codes was stil the 257 on the snap on and P0120 on an app which is just general throttle position fault. I cleared that and I didn’t get it until about 20 mins into the drive when it went into limp mode when I was cruising and wasn’t touching the throttle. Cleared and didn’t come back at all. I haven’t had chance to do the earthing points yet as don’t have access to a jack currently, I could see the main earth from above which looked intact, a little green. I was under the impression a cruddy earth doesn’t really cause limp mode? I have no issues starting it.

 

[DaveDreads]

Sadly I don’t I only got the 172 as a stop gap so don’t have any mates with one which is a shame. I may just end up buying the two, if they don’t solve the issue I could sell them again but I’m not quite ready to be defeated just yet.

Where do you live? The members of this club are pretty sound, there may be someone local willing to lend you their throttle body and pedal for a day.

 

[benwjennings]

Where do you live? The members of this club are pretty sound, there may be someone local willing to lend you their throttle body and pedal for a day.

I am Stourbridge/Kidderminster way mate, West Midlands. Would be great if there was anyone that would let me try to see if it solves the issue.

 

[krappy]

Is this behind the washer bottle by any chance? I was about to do it and I was running out of light and the washer bottle was looking more like 2 bolts and a load of piping so I sacked that off lol. Also with disconnecting the ECU is there any process? Worried about immobiliser issues etc.

I haven't seen it myself but I believe it is around there yes. So not the easiest to get too lol.

Re: the ECU - I would disconnect the battery first before playing with the connector

 

[benwjennings]

Update. *In need of a working throttle body!*
So the issue has been getting worse recently. The car had been constantly stalling when dipping the clutch or manoeuvring to park, constantly bringing up the limp mode electrical light as once as engine turned on, always hunting.

• So today I removed the pedal, cleaned all the connections and opened up the unit to clean the tracks
• Sprayed brake cleaner around the inlet and TB, no changes to the RPM to suggest an air leak
• Fiddled with the MAF, this seems a little bit easy to turn even comes out a bit at the wrong angle? But never comes out far enough as the seal won’t let it
• AND LASTLY, I unplugged the vacuum hose next to the TB that feeds the acoustic valve… the hunting stopped? The revs went above 1k but were stable. After leaving it off for a bit I placed the hose back on and the hunting seems to have stop. The light did come on after a drive but it wasn’t instantly coming on and the car was running smoothly.
  

If anyone has a good working throttle body for sale please let me know as I want to give this a go before taking it to a specialist to scope the wires. One thing I observed is the TB making a lot of odd noises, not just the normal buzz. If I gave the black box a little tap the sound changed as if the flap had repositioned slightly.

 

[hopgop1]

Update. *In need of a working throttle body!*
So the issue has been getting worse recently. The car had been constantly stalling when dipping the clutch or manoeuvring to park, constantly bringing up the limp mode electrical light as once as engine turned on, always hunting.

• So today I removed the pedal, cleaned all the connections and opened up the unit to clean the tracks
• Sprayed brake cleaner around the inlet and TB, no changes to the RPM to suggest an air leak
• Fiddled with the MAF, this seems a little bit easy to turn even comes out a bit at the wrong angle? But never comes out far enough as the seal won’t let it
• AND LASTLY, I unplugged the vacuum hose next to the TB that feeds the acoustic valve… the hunting stopped? The revs went above 1k but were stable. After leaving it off for a bit I placed the hose back on and the hunting seems to have stop. The light did come on after a drive but it wasn’t instantly coming on and the car was running smoothly.

If anyone has a good working throttle body for sale please let me know as I want to give this a go before taking it to a specialist to scope the wires. One thing I observed is the TB making a lot of odd noises, not just the normal buzz. If I gave the black box a little tap the sound changed as if the flap had repositioned slightly.

Highly recommend buying a brand new TB if you can, you'll know for certain it's good, at best a 1*2 throttle body will be 17 years old now.
8200110994 is the part number, roughly £200 if you shop around.

 

[benwjennings]

Highly recommend buying a brand new TB if you can, you'll know for certain it's good, at best a 1*2 throttle body will be 17 years old now.
8200110994 is the part number, roughly £200 if you shop around.

I hear that mate I really do, but what if it’s not the throttle body causing the issues? £200 wasted. I’d like to give a used one a try to rule that out then splash out if it’s evidently that. There’s a few 197/200 ones on FB atm but I’d rather buy from a member on here as well frankly it’s the most honest option.