Looking for advice on my mK1 Clio 16v track day car project

[ElmoMcTickleMe]

Hi all, first post
Just brought my self a 16 valver last week which I'm going to make into a road legal track day car. Just looking for any advice any of you might be able to give me

The car so far: (when I brought it)
The engine rebuilt about 6k miles ago
Has a full s/s exhaust system
Green air filter
8.5mm Ht leads
Performance plugs
Uprated x-drilled front discs + pads (Don't know what discs but seller told me the spare wheel would no longer fit over them so I need to investigate)
Grp N clutch
Grp N head gasket
Lowered & stiffened front (Again not sure what with)
Standard phase 1 wheels with Yoko 539's

(Bits I've done so far)
Sparco front upper strut brace
Chip
Securon 3 point harness
Brake ducting vents instead of front fogs in bumper
Stripped out :approve:


Also the bloke I brought it off said something about it having a Williams rear axle? Are these different to the 16v and how do I tell? :S

Like I said any help / advice would be very helpfull
Cheers all

 

[new_world_disorder]

sorry i cant offer much/any advice.. but u got any pics ?

cheers
ad

 

[edde]

The car so far: (when I brought it)
The engine rebuilt about 6k miles ago
Has a full s/s exhaust system
Green air filter
8.5mm Ht leads
Performance plugs
Uprated x-drilled front discs + pads (Don't know what discs but seller told me the spare wheel would no longer fit over them so I need to investigate)
Grp N clutch
Grp N head gasket
Lowered & stiffened front (Again not sure what with)
Standard phase 1 wheels with Yoko 539's

(Bits I've done so far)
Sparco front upper strut brace
Chip
Securon 3 point harness
Brake ducting vents instead of front fogs in bumper
Stripped out :approve:


Also the bloke I brought it off said something about it having a Williams rear axle? Are these different to the 16v and how do I tell? :S

Rear axles are the same.
No idea on the brakes sound like the ktec big disk kit if so dump it its teribale IMO. plus stock wheel is the same size (from what i remember) as the alloy or should be so should fit.

 

[bill]

get some pics up lad!

 

[Nafoff]

best bet for better advice on this is www.williamsclio.co.uk

 

[ElmoMcTickleMe]

I will try to get some pics up in the next few days

 

[ElmoMcTickleMe]

I will try to get some pics up in the next few days

 

[Nafoff]

tell you what why don't you try to get some pics up in the next few days

 

[cat171]

lol.

 

[Craig]

haha

 

[D_Harrison_172]

If you want to go fast on track the two things you need to be good are are BRAKES and TYRES.

Standard brakes are good enough for track use, but can overheat especially if not kept in 100% condition. 4 pots or even 6 pots allow better cooling and so are unlikely to fade on a clio, even if given constant abuse. The braking distance will be the same with both. Braking distance is reduced with better tyres and a more stable car, which involves set up changes and brake bias alterations.

For tyres the quickest way round a track is to run slicks. To do this you will need to alter the suspension geometry to suits, and be prepared to change ball joints and bearing every couple of track days as slicks will place a lot more stress on these components, especially if you drive hard. If you dont like slicks then a semi slick road legal tyre like the r888 is a great alternative.

After these two most other things are less important. Keep the engine mounts as still as possible (for the sake of gearbox and driveshaft damage) Dont believe everything you read about engine power, as it will make little overall different on the types of circuits that the clio is best suited to. It will help round the ring, or at silverstone, but on smaller circuits and airfields you probably wont be able to go that much faster with extra power, so pound for pound its a bad choice. An exhaust, decat, manifold and chip will net you a few bhp and make a small differnece. For the same cost an lsd will save you huge chunks of time. Its a no brainer. On sprint circuits a stock car will run out of grip before it runs out of power. On stage rallies more than about 190 BHP in a clio is pretty much wasted power unless you can afford to run maxi-like suspension and 18 inch tyres with ultra soft compounds.

 

[D_Harrison_172]

Oh and a lot of 'goup n' parts are simply standard items, so the term is fairly meaningless. Group n cars have certain rules which means they have to runs many standard items (or did), such as standard profile cams and standard brakes. Therfore group n cams sounds ace until you realise its a scrutineering term for standard. Its easy for people to mislead on adverts for cars by stating 'group n' this and that, when it means nothing.

Some things like the ECu can be altered in group n (im talking about the old group n when valvers / williams came out), but apart from a cage and safety items, the cars ran pretty much stock.

 

[cliohybrid]

If you want to go fast on track the two things you need to be good are are BRAKES and TYRES.

Standard brakes are good enough for track use, but can overheat especially if not kept in 100% condition. 4 pots or even 6 pots allow better cooling and so are unlikely to fade on a clio, even if given constant abuse. The braking distance will be the same with both. Braking distance is reduced with better tyres and a more stable car, which involves set up changes and brake bias alterations.

For tyres the quickest way round a track is to run slicks. To do this you will need to alter the suspension geometry to suits, and be prepared to change ball joints and bearing every couple of track days as slicks will place a lot more stress on these components, especially if you drive hard. If you dont like slicks then a semi slick road legal tyre like the r888 is a great alternative.

After these two most other things are less important. Keep the engine mounts as still as possible (for the sake of gearbox and driveshaft damage) Dont believe everything you read about engine power, as it will make little overall different on the types of circuits that the clio is best suited to. It will help round the ring, or at silverstone, but on smaller circuits and airfields you probably wont be able to go that much faster with extra power, so pound for pound its a bad choice. An exhaust, decat, manifold and chip will net you a few bhp and make a small differnece. For the same cost an lsd will save you huge chunks of time. Its a no brainer. On sprint circuits a stock car will run out of grip before it runs out of power. On stage rallies more than about 190 BHP in a clio is pretty much wasted power unless you can afford to run maxi-like suspension and 18 inch tyres with ultra soft compounds.

you definetly dont wanna believe everything that is said here.
so slicks are the fastest way round a track?
in what conditions?
even in cold,wet damp etc etc.hahah joker.

 

[ElmoMcTickleMe]

I'm happy to hear what everyone has to say. Never to wise to learn something new.
I should of put in the original post that my BTEC was Motorsport engineering, I'm a head mechanic for the UK's largest chain of indoor karting centres and I'm not bad at racing karts finishing 5th out of 20,000 drivers in Red Bull's track attack this year.
Please don't think I'm trying to show off in anyway or anything, I'm not like that but just giving you some background.
I'm looking for advice on the valver as this is the first one I've had and this site is full of people who know a lot, lot, lot more about it than I do

 

[ElmoMcTickleMe]

Er how do put pictures up? I've got some but they're on my hard drive not hosted anywhere on the web???? Help

 

[D_Harrison_172]

If you want to go fast on track the two things you need to be good are are BRAKES and TYRES.

Standard brakes are good enough for track use, but can overheat especially if not kept in 100% condition. 4 pots or even 6 pots allow better cooling and so are unlikely to fade on a clio, even if given constant abuse. The braking distance will be the same with both. Braking distance is reduced with better tyres and a more stable car, which involves set up changes and brake bias alterations.

For tyres the quickest way round a track is to run slicks. To do this you will need to alter the suspension geometry to suits, and be prepared to change ball joints and bearing every couple of track days as slicks will place a lot more stress on these components, especially if you drive hard. If you dont like slicks then a semi slick road legal tyre like the r888 is a great alternative.

After these two most other things are less important. Keep the engine mounts as still as possible (for the sake of gearbox and driveshaft damage) Dont believe everything you read about engine power, as it will make little overall different on the types of circuits that the clio is best suited to. It will help round the ring, or at silverstone, but on smaller circuits and airfields you probably wont be able to go that much faster with extra power, so pound for pound its a bad choice. An exhaust, decat, manifold and chip will net you a few bhp and make a small differnece. For the same cost an lsd will save you huge chunks of time. Its a no brainer. On sprint circuits a stock car will run out of grip before it runs out of power. On stage rallies more than about 190 BHP in a clio is pretty much wasted power unless you can afford to run maxi-like suspension and 18 inch tyres with ultra soft compounds.

you definetly dont wanna believe everything that is said here.
so slicks are the fastest way round a track?
in what conditions?
even in cold,wet damp etc etc.hahah joker.

Id say round Donnington the r888's are worth maybe 3-4 seconds per lap over a conventional road tyre on a clio. This is verified by experince from a 1994 cup race car running williams front end and 4 degree neg camber. Slicks, in optimal conditions should be worth a little more than that, and will take the heat better than the r888's so should be more consistent on longer runs. Both the r888's and slick obviously wont work in the wet (slick to a greater extent), so youll need wet tyre for those condition.

You can use slicks in the cold, but you have to be a good driver to get enough heat into them. I though the fact that you should only use slicks in the dry was so obvious i didnt have to mention it. But thanks for pointing that out in such a polite way.

 

[D_Harrison_172]

I'm happy to hear what everyone has to say. Never to wise to learn something new.
I should of put in the original post that my BTEC was Motorsport engineering, I'm a head mechanic for the UK's largest chain of indoor karting centres and I'm not bad at racing karts finishing 5th out of 20,000 drivers in Red Bull's track attack this year.
Please don't think I'm trying to show off in anyway or anything, I'm not like that but just giving you some background.
I'm looking for advice on the valver as this is the first one I've had and this site is full of people who know a lot, lot, lot more about it than I do

Tuning the engine on a valver is pretty pointless unless you throw a lot of money at it. If your going to spend that kind of money you might as well just buy a better base car. Youd need thousands to get it to a decent level of tune. Use your skills to tune the chassis and make your time up that way. Its far more rewarding and cheaper. Copying the early 1990 cup front end is a good place to start, which is basically Williams lower frame with stiffer shocks, making the car wider and more stable. Some form of adjustable camber will help too. Lowering the rear torsion bar will also help lower the centre of gravity, and that wont cost anything if you do it yourself. Another cheap modification is the renault 19 gearbox mount from renault placed under the gearbox at the front of the car to keep the engine nice and stable.

If your going to take the car on track a lot, make some temp measurements and work out if the car is cooling the oil adequately. The book temps should be on the internet somewhere. If the cars cooling isnt up to scratch get an oil cooler fitted. Some valvers will have these sitting under the oil filter ont he front of the engine. The standard ones arnt great but will make a difference, so either get a standard one if you dont have one (all williams have the cooler) or get an after market one.

 

[bill]

If you want to go fast on track the two things you need to be good are are BRAKES and TYRES.

Standard brakes are good enough for track use, but can overheat especially if not kept in 100% condition. 4 pots or even 6 pots allow better cooling and so are unlikely to fade on a clio, even if given constant abuse. The braking distance will be the same with both. Braking distance is reduced with better tyres and a more stable car, which involves set up changes and brake bias alterations.

For tyres the quickest way round a track is to run slicks. To do this you will need to alter the suspension geometry to suits, and be prepared to change ball joints and bearing every couple of track days as slicks will place a lot more stress on these components, especially if you drive hard. If you dont like slicks then a semi slick road legal tyre like the r888 is a great alternative.

After these two most other things are less important. Keep the engine mounts as still as possible (for the sake of gearbox and driveshaft damage) Dont believe everything you read about engine power, as it will make little overall different on the types of circuits that the clio is best suited to. It will help round the ring, or at silverstone, but on smaller circuits and airfields you probably wont be able to go that much faster with extra power, so pound for pound its a bad choice. An exhaust, decat, manifold and chip will net you a few bhp and make a small differnece. For the same cost an lsd will save you huge chunks of time. Its a no brainer. On sprint circuits a stock car will run out of grip before it runs out of power. On stage rallies more than about 190 BHP in a clio is pretty much wasted power unless you can afford to run maxi-like suspension and 18 inch tyres with ultra soft compounds.

sounds like very good advice to me fella, and sounds like you know what your on about, and as you said, thought it would have been obvious that slicks where ment for dry use only:S hence why most/all tracks wont let you on unless its COMPLETELY DRY! ( Mmm strange that )

 

[tommyboy]

pics?

 

[ElmoMcTickleMe]

Er how do put pictures up? I've got some but they're on my hard drive not hosted anywhere on the web???? Help

 

[ElmoMcTickleMe]

"renault 19 gearbox mount" Does this fit straight on as an OEM replacement?

 

[D_Harrison_172]

The mount comes in two parts. A metal bracket attaches under the gearbox at the front end, on two free holes. The rubber mount then fits under the metal bracket and to the subframe. The cost of both parts is around 50 pounds from renaunt. You will have to move the air feed pipe bracket / electrical water pump bracket to get the mount to fit squarely to the subframe. Ive seen these fitted witht he bracket in place at an angle, and i dont think they work as well as if fitted squarely due to the direction of reistance in the rubber section.

Uprating the dog bone mount is another great modification to the engine. You can use your imagination to increase the resistance to sheer in the rubber bush they house. Packing the gaps with polyeurethane works well.