Looking to buy a Trophy: Questions - Doubts

[Porkerr]

Hi everyone, I'm a 23yr old Belgian guy, I've always adored the Trophy since I first read about it in Evo. Some things kept me from buying though, as a student my budget is quite limited (low GBP came to the rescue), the fact that it'll be RHD (prepared to live with that) but most of all... I'm an RWD addict, I've owned my E30 for a couple of years now and I really enjoy its tail-happiness.

So, now the Trophy is within reach, I have to ask myself the question, is a Trophy capable of making me forget about RWD, making me happy for at least a couple of years? Should I be concerned about costs with the trick Sachs dampers and should I ask the sellers to get them refurbished before buying? I couldn't think of a better place to ask these questions...

Finally, I'm quite a tall guy (1.93m = 6.33ft I think), would the elevated driving position be a concern? Especially regarding headroom when wearing a helmet?

Here's me in RWD times...

All the best,

Frank

 

[mccabe172]

I am 6ft 1 and had no issue in the car even with a helmet on at the Ring!! The seat is slightly lower and to me seems further back than standard 182.

I ve only ever driven a 350z as a rear wheel drive car, and the intimacy of the trophy was not matched at all by the 350z. I driven a few cars and the trophy is the best for me as it is very light and an absolute giant killer on the right roads. The only better car for me as been a dc2 teg. I look for handling and the ability to adjust the car on the limit round the a corner, I am not too concerned with straight line speed. The Trophy is able to communicate the road to the driver like a sixth sense, awesome.

Issues, make sure it has mitchelin pilots on as these will cost about £105 each. Ensure it has the front splitter as these tend to come off or where not fitted new. Exhaust is a massive issue as it is the same as the standard 182 and these tend to fall apart after a year or so, the cat is also an issue so if it has an aftermarket exhaust ensure the cat has been replaced.

With regard to the suspension, I would look for a car with no signs of damaged wheels as this will have a detrimental effect on the handling of the car. Remember the rear cannot be re-aligned if it has had a bad knock so you'd need a new stub axle and they can be very expensive new and rare as hell second hand! The final issue is the suspension, I said this to a friend last week when he was looking at one 'remember this is race spec suspension so should be rebuilt every few years'! I d look for leaking dampers and overly soft springs.

I looked at trophy number 232 last week in Middlesborough and the rear dampers where both leaking, the front passenger suspension was very soft; in that I gently pushed on the front of the car and the whole front moved up and down.

I ve heard a refurb is £350 each for the front and back, if you can get a clean car this isn't a massive spend if everything elase is in order.

Hope this helps.

 

[Porkerr]

Thank you, that was actually of great help! Very much appreciated!

 

[Ex-User (19928)]

is a Trophy capable of making me forget about RWD

No. (imo)

 

[Ex-User (19928)]

this is race spec suspension so should be rebuilt every few years'

It is ?!

 

[Porkerr]

No. (imo)

Ouch, that's honest...

 

[Ex-User (19928)]

Ouch, that's honest...

True though.

Unless you need the space and still want to have as much fun as you can for as little money, there's no point buying a FWD hatch for driving pleasure. (imo again)

And it looks like you know how RWD works (unless a few seconds after that picture was taken you're facing the other way ). You can't do that in a Trophy that's for sure.

 

[craig oh]

In my opinion FWD cars have more character to them when being driven hard, I love 182 handling but have never driven a trophy to experience the advantages of the trick suspension.

Personally I am yet to find any RWD car that makes me want to go out and buy one, although they have advantages over FWD cars I find that with most people it tends to be a case of personal preference. Myself I love FWD!

I love Trophy's! I hope you find a good 'un

 

[Jay_A]

I went from a 197 to a Trophy because its so good. My wife has a Megane 225 which is great, but doesn't excite like the Trophy.

To add to that, I have a friend who works on a particular supercar, has driven pretty much any car out there and he just loved my Trophy.

I have made some slight tweaks including a remap and Ktech sports exhaust which made a great difference to Torque, but seriously I love it.

You won't regret it!

 

[mccabe172]

If you buy one private and then dont like it you'll easily find a buyer, that is one positive.

 

[Porkerr]

True though.

Unless you need the space and still want to have as much fun as you can for as little money, there's no point buying a FWD hatch for driving pleasure. (imo again)

And it looks like you know how RWD works (unless a few seconds after that picture was taken you're facing the other way ). You can't do that in a Trophy that's for sure.

That's what I was afraid off... I'm struggling to find the correct RWD-successor to my E30 as it has to be pretty hardcore, have a sweet balance, purity, ... And all that for £8k tops.

I was thinking of E36 M3's and changing suspension, maybe stripping, but I'm afraid of the running costs of such a car driven hard, let alone taxes and insurance. Elises are too fragile for me as I tend to use my cars hard and need them as a daily. Porsche's 968 seemed like a possibility but again, with hard use there are going to be costs and parts aren't cheap. Dynamically I found the E30 M3 a dream to drive, it has all the purity I look for, but a good one is not to be found within budget.

That's why I started looking at FWD's, a decent RWD car, trackworthy with reasonable running costs isn't easy to find for around £8k.

I started reading the EVO articles about the Trophy again, read about how amazing it handles, and started thinking I shouldn't be too narrowminded towards FWD's and try to forget about drifting and sliding for a couple of years and enjoy a sweet handling hot hatch...

I just want to make sure I'm not making a £8k mistake, on top of that, selling a Trophy will not be easy as it'll be RHD (I'm located in Belgium) so I'd have to sell it in the UK again.

Thanks for your honest answers, you guys have been a real help!

(and no, I wasn't facing the other way some seconds later :rasp

 

[bradharding24]

If you can drive a RWD car properly you will never fully get to grips with understeering FWD IMO. Only way round this is to fit a fly off handbrake.

 

[Ex-User (19928)]

E36 M3 Evos can be picked up in the UK for less than £4000 now.

If you didn't want high running costs, you could get an MX5 with either a supercharger or turbocharger for £4000.

Very different cars, if you're used to the BMW you might prefer the E36.

 

[Porkerr]

E36 M3 Evos can be picked up in the UK for less than £4000 now.

If you didn't want high running costs, you could get an MX5 with either a supercharger or turbocharger for £4000.

Very different cars, if you're used to the BMW you might prefer the E36.

I know a sporty MX-5 would be a great choice but I cannot get to grips with the looks and image of these cars (stupid, I know), I'm afraid that 'll never be an option. (Same reason I'm not considering an Integra)

The E36 actually feels a bit woolly and 'distant', too much of a GT, but maybe some mods will take care of that.

 

[Ex-User (19928)]

Homo MX5 is a winner.

The E36 race car we have here feels like a rock with 4 wheels when you're driving on the road.

It's not quite standard though..

It's got Eibach adjustable ARBs, KW Clubsport suspension (soon to be Nitron) and a 12 point roll cage.

 

[tyranical]

You can get a higher mileage (not that it matters) S2000 for 8k.

 

[mccabe172]

By the sound of things you need a DC2 pal, you can easy get a jdm one for around 6k but get a 98spec they are better, with 8k you could import a very very low miler in excellent condition. Try Andy at 200bhp cars.

A teg is great and is very adjustable with the rear even though it is a fwd. I was able to get it stepping out and getting the back end out after only 10 minutes of driving.

 

[Porkerr]

By the sound of things you need a DC2 pal, you can easy get a jdm one for around 6k but get a 98spec they are better, with 8k you could import a very very low miler in excellent condition. Try Andy at 200bhp cars.

A teg is great and is very adjustable with the rear even though it is a fwd. I was able to get it stepping out and getting the back end out after only 10 minutes of driving.

I know, I've heard that before, I just hate the thought of looking like a t**t everytime I arrive somewhere (as I would in an E36, I know)

I'm just no fan of the ricer-style looks of the car, I was hoping to find a similarly engaging car in the Trophy, without looking ricer-ish.. :quiet:

 

[mccabe172]

My pal who has a jdm dc2 had a blast of my 182 and he was really impressed, in fact he was shocked at how good it was. His dc2 is as quick as mine up to about 50 then his starts to pull away but I can reign him in after that. The dc2 is awesome round roundabouts, in fact it is scary quick. I can keep up with but he will leave me on a round about, on country roads I have an advantage due to the low down grunt of the 182. I would go back to a Trophy after being disappointed by back to back test drives in 197's and r26's. 197 has an awesome chassis, brilliant road holding, great breaks, great gear box but it aint quick. The meg is the same but it feels slighlty laking in feeling compared to a 182 or Trophy.

 

[Ex-User (19928)]

I know, I've heard that before, I just hate the thought of looking like a tw*t everytime I arrive somewhere (as I would in an E36, I know)

Unless your friends all live in SW1 I really don't see the image problem with an E36, MX5, Integra etc.... Especially when you're driving an E30 atm!

 

[mccabe172]

A mate who has a 182 cup in J45 racing blue said he is selling up for a c5 or ford kuga as he feels there is a boy racer stigma with the 182, I TOLD HIM TO GET A GRIP!!! Who cares what other people think if your having fun.

 

[Porkerr]

A mate who has a 182 cup in J45 racing blue said he is selling up for a c5 or ford kuga as he feels there is a boy racer stigma with the 182, I TOLD HIM TO GET A GRIP!!! Who cares what other people think if your having fun.

You're absolutely right, I couldn't care less if people would think I'm mad for driving a Caterham all winter long, driving a red-wheeled Porsche as a daily, ...

I find it different with Japanese cars though, it doesn't shout 'petrolhead', it shouts 'tuner', I should get over that I know.

On the other hand, when spending a huge chunk of my money on a car, I want to love it inside and out, and that won't be the case with either an Integra or MX-5, a Trophy might just work :approve:

 

[Porkerr]

Unless your friends all live in SW1 I really don't see the image problem with an E36, MX5, Integra etc.... Especially when you're driving an E30 atm!

lol, no my friends are normal people. In Belgium there's quite a difference between the E30 and E36 imagewise, 90% of E36's have stickers 'tuning is not a crime', exhausts where one could easily take a walk in, ... E30's are more considered as classics.

Same goes for Integra's, there are a couple of them in the neighborhood, all on 18 of 19's with wings so big you wonder if it still gets above 80mph...

I'd like a car to have at least some sort of "flair" or "style", the japs just don't cut it for me... A clean E36 M3 might.

 

[mcphee197]

My pal who has a jdm dc2 had a blast of my 182 and he was really impressed, in fact he was shocked at how good it was. His dc2 is as quick as mine up to about 50 then his starts to pull away but I can reign him in after that. The dc2 is awesome round roundabouts, in fact it is scary quick. I can keep up with but he will leave me on a round about, on country roads I have an advantage due to the low down grunt of the 182. I would go back to a Trophy after being disappointed by back to back test drives in 197's and r26's. 197 has an awesome chassis, brilliant road holding, great breaks, great gear box but it aint quick. The meg is the same but it feels slighlty laking in feeling compared to a 182 or Trophy.

a 197 aint quick??? - LOL!!!

 

[mccabe172]

Just my opinion after driving and being a passenger over the last month.My pals who have a vxr and a dc2 came to the same conclusion. To make the 197 a truely great car it needs a more powerful engine like the r26 engine.

 

[Alex_X93]

Get a LHD renaultsport much better balanced than RHD.

 

[scott7912]

I am 6ft 1 and had no issue in the car even with a helmet on at the Ring!! The seat is slightly lower and to me seems further back than standard 182.

I ve only ever driven a 350z as a rear wheel drive car, and the intimacy of the trophy was not matched at all by the 350z. I driven a few cars and the trophy is the best for me as it is very light and an absolute giant killer on the right roads. The only better car for me as been a dc2 teg. I look for handling and the ability to adjust the car on the limit round the a corner, I am not too concerned with straight line speed. The Trophy is able to communicate the road to the driver like a sixth sense, awesome.

Issues, make sure it has mitchelin pilots on as these will cost about £105 each. Ensure it has the front splitter as these tend to come off or where not fitted new. Exhaust is a massive issue as it is the same as the standard 182 and these tend to fall apart after a year or so, the cat is also an issue so if it has an aftermarket exhaust ensure the cat has been replaced.

With regard to the suspension, I would look for a car with no signs of damaged wheels as this will have a detrimental effect on the handling of the car. Remember the rear cannot be re-aligned if it has had a bad knock so you'd need a new stub axle and they can be very expensive new and rare as hell second hand! The final issue is the suspension, I said this to a friend last week when he was looking at one 'remember this is race spec suspension so should be rebuilt every few years'! I d look for leaking dampers and overly soft springs.

I looked at trophy number 232 last week in Middlesborough and the rear dampers where both leaking, the front passenger suspension was very soft; in that I gently pushed on the front of the car and the whole front moved up and down.

I ve heard a refurb is £350 each for the front and back, if you can get a clean car this isn't a massive spend if everything elase is in order.

Hope this helps.

Good write up there, the Trophy is the best car i have ever driven, not that i have driven alot but i wont be selling mine anytime soon or ever.
The few cars i have compared it to are a corrola tsport, celica tsport both 190 bhp, Evo 5 with 280bhp, accord type R with 230bhp and LSD, VW R32 new shape, R27, clio 182 which i used to own and a few others, i would say for pure fun the Trophy wins hands down.
Just to add to your last comment, the referb of the Sachs dampers is approx £140 per side for fronts, the rears cant be referbished but i have heard they can be purchased for £120 ish each, not sure about this though.
I would also say watch the rear disks, they wear quite quick and cost approx £150 with the pre-pressed bearing and ABS ring fitted.

 

[Porkerr]

Get a LHD renaultsport much better balanced than RHD.

Is that true? Anyway a Trophy in LHD is almost twice as expensive due to taxes when importing a car in the EU...

RHD it is

 

[.Ben.]

Love the E30!

For 8k an S2000 is a good car (here's my old one):

But they're expensive if they go wrong. Suspension is brittle and a few on the S2k Owners Club have had engines go pop after 100k miles. Personally, I'd avoid it.

If it's RWD you want, for 8k you can get a pretty nice example of the S1 Elise, or if that's too 'bare bones' for you, I really liked a stripped-out 200sx S14a that a friend of mine has just bought. Big car, but so controllable at the limit, oh, and they're easy to tweak by all accounts too!

If it's FWD - the Integra DC2, Civic EP3 and the Clio 1*2s have been raved about for YEARS! OR the Cooper S is an outside choice...

 

[mccabe172]

03-05 plate cooper s jcw is supposedly awesome and easily tuneable. I love s2ks but i ve heard similar issues, I am in a Honda club as I had an ep3 and one of the lads was telling me that early s2ks have a tendency to rot their bushes and suspension. also if a wheel goes out of the set alignment it is pretty much impossible to get back to perfect. i dont know the ins and out of these issues but the s2k does seem to go against the Honda reliability ethos. However, I was at Croft last year and an 06 plate s2k was absolutely flying round!!

Other outside option is an ek9 Type R - small engine 1.6, which you have to thrash but as they are so light and also have an lsd they are very quick and very affordable at the moment.

Yeah, good point about the discs on the Trophy. When mine had 20k on the clock it needed the rear wheel bearings doing on both wheels!! Great car but it will cost to maintain, bit like a lotus s1!

Think I will go back to a Trophy.

 

[Sir_Dave]

Just thought id put my response in here at Frank sent me a pm about this (ive had a few frenchies/BMW's) - hope he doesnt mind

For info ive had 2 x 106 gtis, a 306 rallye, 2 x 328i Sports, a Z3M, a 182 & a Clio 172 Cup - so a decent spread of FWD & RWD lol. I also use the cars on road & track.

First things first, the trophy is an awesome car & the handling is simply out of this world. But, imho its a bit too easy to go fast, its not like you need to think anything through if you know what i mean. I preferred my 172 cup over my 182 (and a trophy i test drove/ragged extensively) for example, bit more of an edge, less easy to drive quick when nearing the limits, no abs/TC to fall back on, etc...

FWD is much faster in the wet, unless you have huge balls. Clio will feel more 'fun' than an e36, go-kart vs oil tanker style, get in, rag it, leave it, very chuckable. Tbh, you have to be pretty handy with an M3 to keep up with a clio on a twisting road, clios just go where you point them, an M3 takes more skill, it will oversteer if you push it too hard.

Big price gap between a M3 3.0 (£3.5k) and a trophy (£6k) as well. For me, the clios are brilliant cars and in all honesty if you are buying a car for thrills i would compare the 172 cup & the M3, they are both edgy buggers and will keep you on your toes in their own little ways. The cup is cheap to run, cheap to maintain & very quick over most roads.

But the M3 is imho, incredible value for money at the moment. They are very fast, but also very civilised, you can pootle, or you can floor it and struggle to keep it in a straight line, in the dry. The 328 isnt fast enough to be particulary entertaining for me, but the M3 brings more power/torque to the party that gives it the edge, sideways out of junctions is always fun ...

For me. I wouldnt have a trophy. Id like another 172 cup. But ill own a 3.0 M3 next, on decent tyres/coilovers. Thats the only car under £8k at the moment that i feel i could use everyday & still provide a real challenge when i want it to 3.0 though, Evo gearboxs are weak & the vanos is a constant worry ...

But and its a big but, if you're going to track it often, dont forget to factor in the higher price of consumables for the m3, ie pads/discs/tyres/bushes etc

Hope that helps.
Dave

In conclusion, FWD is great, but RWD takes more time/skill to perfect, thats why people love Clio V6's, they're not ridiculously fast A to B when compared to say, a trophy, but their handling irks prove difficult to master, so you never get bored :approve:

 

[MistaT]

I had a 318iS E30 for quite a while, took it on track too! The mtech suspension was useless but i never got round to lowering it, had the parts & H&R arb kit but sold it all.

Anyway the clio is a totally different beast, better in a lot of ways, worse in a lot of ways. The clio is undoubtledly more capable and a lot of fun, but it's not a BMW, the build isn't the same, the positioning of the controls isn't anywhere near as well thought out or executed, the motorway & high speed stability isn't on a par(3 series has longer wheelbase & totally different geometry) Plus the rear suspension isn't fully independant on the clio, where it is on the 3 series.

It's something you'll have to try, either you'll fall in love with the trophy or you won't.

 

[Porkerr]

Thanks guys!!!

I must say it's getting complicated , I'll try and find a 182/172 I can take for a drive before I'll decide, it's hard to base such decisions on theories and words...

 

[roddy21t]

Hi all ..

Possibly on the market for a Trophy myself ....

Im assuming its only the front dampers that are Sachs and the rears are not ??

Just been to my local Renault dealer and they listed the rear shocks at approx £120 each .. and the fronts at £1140 each and this is before VAT !! ...

Who is the company that refurbs the fronts ?? ...


Thanks guys ..

 

[Steve]

Look on CT it's a thread i sorted.

 

[Porkerr]

Well, I thought I'd let everyone know I've made my decision, no Trophy for me yet

Thanks for all the advice though...