Loss of all drive

[Deany]

Just broken down, took it up to about 70 in 3rd went to grab 4th and lost all power. Still turns over on starter motor but don't think it's sparking can anyone help me out with some ideas?

 

[Strettman]

hi, there's a possibility it could be a coil pack, crank sensor, snapped cambelt or jumped a tooth or loads of other things really, but the first few are probably the most likely to cause non starting

 

[Deany]

I don't THINK it's the belt only been on 18 months and there were no noises from the bay, sounded normal when coming down thru the gears too till we hit a complete stop and it cut out, beginning to suspect fuel pump after a think

 

[Strettman]

it could also be that. i don't know if you can get to it from under the rear seats but if you can, try having someone turning the ignition on and off whilst listening around the pump area for a whirring noise. if you can't hear anything i'd check the live to the pump and if there is none check fuses, relays and wiring before replacing a pump.

thanks

 

[Deany]

its bad news, cambelt has jumped and made a mess of the engines internals.

​need to decide what to do with it now.

 

[Matt@codered]

Have a word with whoever did the belt if its only been in there 18 months......? probably worth looking for another engine in the meantime.

 

[Strettman]

just like matt said, the belt may be under warranty.

​thanks

 

[Deany]

sounds good to me. gonna buy a cheap shitter asap to get me to work and that, move clio to my dads and sorn it then have a hunt for an engine.

 

[Amos91]

Where were the belts done?

 

[MicKPM]

My place - Already spoken with Tim about it this morning

 

[Chip-mk1]

Weird for it to happen 18 months after being changed, if something was wrong with the belt change you would expect problems a lot sooner than that.

Any other faults that might have caused it? Like for example on ours when it went it was PAS fluid got onto the aux belt and then the auxbelt slipped and made the cambelt move.

 

[MicKPM]

Spoke to Tim this morning and he said when he went from 3rd to 4th the revs went mentally high so I'm *thinking* he may have over-revved it which has dragged the crank. I've said I'll help him out if I can though with it if he goes the new engine route (most viable option IMO).

 

[Chip-mk1]

Spoke to Tim this morning and he said when he went from 3rd to 4th the revs went mentally high so I'm *thinking* he may have over-revved it which has dragged the crank. I've said I'll help him out if I can though with it if he goes the new engine route (most viable option IMO).

Yes that would make sense, he probably got 2nd instead of 4th, certainly wouldnt be the first to do it with a JC5 and an old linkage!

 

[MicKPM]

Yeah, didn't Corky do something at Bedford? He said there's an oil leak to but I've not seen the car so can't really say any more until he's decided what he'd like to do with the car or I've seen it.

 

[Chip-mk1]

Yeah Porkie buzzed his at bedford getting 2nd not 4th and saw some mental RPM and spun the centre main.

Sadly its quite easily done on these cars.

 

[Flat Eric]

Yeah Porkie buzzed his at bedford getting 2nd not 4th and saw some mental RPM and spun the centre main.

Sadly its quite easily done on these cars.

Is that what the term buzzed means then? Selecting wrong gear by mistake etc?

 

[Chip-mk1]

Is that what the term buzzed means then? Selecting wrong gear by mistake etc?

Yeah if someone has "buzzed" an engine it means they have mechanically over revved it with a down shift.

On the way up the gears the rev limiter will stop the engine from damaging itself by over revving, but on the way back down if you use the mass of the car to force the engine upto speed the rev limiter cant do anything about it.

 

[Flat Eric]

Ah I see. Not good then

I've learnt something today

 

[Chip-mk1]

Not good at all.

My nova engine once saw 11Krpm on the data logger briefly during a miss shift, was flat out in 3rd at 8500rpm and grabbed 2nd instead of 4th due to a dodgy gear selector!

I got away with it (thank heavens for solid lifters and arrow rods etc so mine was more or less a touring car spec engine essentially) but in most cases you do not.

The old 1800 8v vauxhall astra GTE used to have a good way of dealing with it, sacrificial rockers that snapped if the valve hit the piston, leaving no damage other than replacing them which was a quick and easy job. Cant really do that so well on a pent roof combustion chamber though.

 

[Mr R.]

My misses old corsa has the same set up, non contact valves.

 

[Chip-mk1]

My misses old corsa has the same set up, non contact valves.

That will be a small block 8v engine instead which are even safer, you can literally just drive them till the belt falls off and then throw a new one on (which takes hardly any time anyway so long as the waterpump isnt seized as its the tensioner)

 

[Mr R.]

Yep that ill be the one, ive just done belt kit and water pump on it.

 

[Chip-mk1]

Working on vauxhall engines does make you hate renault, lol.

Love clios, but so much about the engine and box are terrible really.

 

[MicKPM]

I feel the same about Vauxhalls and Fords Chip. Loads of room but just completely alien to me

 

[Harbinger]

Hate vx engines, the C20LET and Z20LET are the most minging things on earth esp when in a mk3 astra that wasn't designed for it in the first place lol

 

[Jaff.]

Not good at all.

My nova engine once saw 11Krpm on the data logger briefly during a miss shift, was flat out in 3rd at 8500rpm and grabbed 2nd instead of 4th due to a dodgy gear selector!

I got away with it (thank heavens for solid lifters and arrow rods etc so mine was more or less a touring car spec engine essentially) but in most cases you do not.

The old 1800 8v vauxhall astra GTE used to have a good way of dealing with it, sacrificial rockers that snapped if the valve hit the piston, leaving no damage other than replacing them which was a quick and easy job. Cant really do that so well on a pent roof combustion chamber though.

​Wel I've learnt something today! I snapped 2 rocker arms on my old 8v 1.2 corsa (assuming its same design?)

 

[MicKPM]

Hate vx engines, the C20LET and Z20LET are the most minging things on earth esp when in a mk3 astra that wasn't designed for it in the first place lol

One of my examples. Had to change the turbo amd gearbox on a mates Z20 powered Zaf GSiT... I'm rahing now just thinking about that horrible stupid thing

 

[Harbinger]

Worse a mate of mine thought it would be a great idea and put one in a corsa C barely fits at all and took the better part of a day just to get the bloody thing in had to strip the whole front end off. In the end it failed to even drive due to too much power, 200bhp in one of them doesn't work esp on skinny little 15's and eco tyres. Never again Renault and Caterham all the way.

 

[Deany]

Thinking about it probably did grab 2nd, my linkage does have some play in it which would explain the revs, crank pulley turned, timing out, big mess etc.

Mick the leak is only a tiny one out the top of the rocker cover, showed you it last time i was down, going by the dipstick not lost any at all and its all on top of the cover, ill grab a pic later today. Should be getting it moved to my dads this weekend/next week. Found a ph2 1.2 that I need to go see and probably buy to get me mobile again cos paying £15.80 on the train to work is a massive bummer.

 

[MicKPM]

Thinking about it probably did grab 2nd, my linkage does have some play in it which would explain the revs, crank pulley turned, timing out, big mess etc.

I know chap and I'm not trying to blame it on that minor leak or you for that matter because we've not seen the car and can only go on what you've said happened. I genuinely feel s**t for you right now... I hate it when my engines go wrong but its unlikely any F4R would've survived a shift to 2nd at that speed... just real bad luck.

Don't sell it as is with a bent engine though because even with the SRS module needing replacing it's too nice an example for that. Its gonna need valves or a head to get running again and I've said I'll gladly help you out with it if you want to fix her up.

Mick

 

[Carlv8415]

Yeah Porkie buzzed his at bedford getting 2nd not 4th and saw some mental RPM and spun the centre main.

Sadly its quite easily done on these cars.

Did the exact same to my old engine. Lasted for about 2 weeks after then let go. Was some insanely high revs though.

 

[MicKPM]

The gearboxes RPM climbs rapidly when this happens and drags the engines RPM sky high. This causes the cranks rotational speed to advance (and the top end cannot keep up) so a torsional effect tightens the bottom pulley bolt (it's a "stretch" fixing) which then can't apply the required load to grip the crank/crank sprocket assembly so it slips... destroyed valves.

 

[Amos91]

Oh dear. Gone for the money shift . Easily done with the gear changes on these.

 

[Chip-mk1]

The gearboxes RPM climbs rapidly when this happens and drags the engines RPM sky high. This causes the cranks rotational speed to advance (and the top end cannot keep up) so a torsional effect tightens the bottom pulley bolt (it's a "stretch" fixing) which then can't apply the required load to grip the crank/crank sprocket assembly so it slips... destroyed valves.

And if the pulley doesnt slip you can still get a failure from the valves bend as a result of bouncing where the springs cant close them quick enough too.
Mega RPM is just not a good idea in general, lol.

 

[MartinR]

Good read this

 

[MicKPM]

Oh dear. Gone for the money shift . Easily done with the gear changes on these.

He isn't the first to do it and I'm pretty sure he won't be the last either. I'm deffo considering investing in a PMS shifter now to upgrade the shift kit I have at present.

And if the pulley doesnt slip you can still get a failure from the valves bend as a result of bouncing where the springs cant close them quick enough too.
Mega RPM is just not a good idea in general, lol.

In a 16 vs 4 it gets all Highlander... "There can only be one"

 

[Deany]

I know chap and I'm not trying to blame it on that minor leak or you for that matter because we've not seen the car and can only go on what you've said happened. I genuinely feel s**t for you right now... I hate it when my engines go wrong but its unlikely any F4R would've survived a shift to 2nd at that speed... just real bad luck.

Don't sell it as is with a bent engine though because even with the SRS module needing replacing it's too nice an example for that. Its gonna need valves or a head to get running again and I've said I'll gladly help you out with it if you want to fix her up.

Mick

I've got over it now, gonna go view a ph2 1.2 tomorrow and run that.

Yeah I'll be fixing her for sure, no intention of selling anymore. Getting it moved to my dads on monday then come up with a plan in the next week, gather some bits then send her to you most likely. Gives an opportunity to do some stuff that otherwise I wouldnt have the opportunity to do aswell