Lost Caster?!

[mikeh]

I was just looking back on an old thread where I mentioned my original geo readout when I got the car showed 3 degrees and 2.5degrees caster.

A more recent one showed 2 degrees and around 2.3 degrees - I originally thought this was down to non-cup wishbones being fitted at some point, but that doesn't seem so likely now.

I'm curious why, though?

Since it's been done, camber bolts, balljoints, struts, top mounts have all been done as well as poly bushes.

Are there any known issues with pattern balljoints having slightly different dimensions or powerflex bushes moving the wishbone around a bit?

I'm looking to gain caster and losing nearly a degree off of the standard values isn't a great start!

 

[vecbtb]

Exactly the same with me. I've used pattern balljoints and more recently new Renault lower arm and balljoint (increased castor ones). I'm not sure, but I think it can only be my new OE dampers. I'm changing them soon for B14's and I'll see what difference it makes.

 

[Chip-mk1]

Have you stripped the rear of the car out to save weight?

That loses you caster.

 

[mikeh]

I haven't, no.

I did wonder if the Eibach Pro's could be responsible, but the rake isn't hugely different to OEM, I wouldn't have thought?

 

[MG cup]

You have lost 1 degree of camber (easily fixed) and 0.2 of a degree caster or 12 minutes I.e a fud hair. Refreshing the front end will tighten things up and go one of two ways, slacken bottom ball joints, wishbone bolts and try moving everything forward then tighten it up with tension on and I bet it comes closer to your previous.

 

[Chip-mk1]

I haven't, no.

I did wonder if the Eibach Pro's could be responsible, but the rake isn't hugely different to OEM, I wouldn't have thought?

Well it would only need to alter the rake of the car by a degree to have the same effects on your readings.

 

[mikeh]

The car has been refreshed over the last year.

New shocks, bushes, ball joints, inner and outer trackrods, top mounts etc. etc.

I have been planning on trying Chip's little caster trick, I'll give that a go and see how it fairs.

 

[itsjamz]

Lose caster by putting nice new top mounts too. More caster will give you more dynamic camber too so just do chips idea.. I will if I need more. Atm I feel I have enough with max caster on AST top mounts and cup wishbones.

 

[MG cup]

If you have cup arms then you can't go much further without running into issues. AST or custom top mounts/strut tops is your only other possibility after cup arms.

or cutting away your inner arch at the front.... Yeeee haaa

 

[Chip-mk1]

Clearance depends a lot what height you are and what size wheels you run.

 

[mikeh]

How serious are the clearance issues and how much caster did you gain by doing it, Chip?

I'd obviously prefer to do it at the top mounts, but £200 on a set of AST mounts doesn't seem like particularly good value at this moment in time.

I plan on a set of Sportline 1s in the not so distant future, so I'll probably grab AST top mounts at the same time. I'm just trying to make the best of what I have for the end of season autotest events later this month.

 

[Chip-mk1]

If your car is low and you add a couple more degrees on the bottom, you will have the tyres hitting the metalwork at the front on a ph1, I dont know if the ph2 have more space or not though as not tried the same on ph2.

 

[NorthloopCup]

I dont know if the ph2 have more space or not though as not tried the same on ph2.

No ph2 doesn't have more space chip. My tyres knock the bollox out of the front inner wheel arches, but I am quite low.

 

[mikeh]

Is it just a light rub or is there actual obstruction? I'm guessing it's just on full lock?

I'm not too low at the moment - just sportlines.

 

[Chip-mk1]

Depends on how low you are and what tyres you run, on mine when it was very low with the extra caster and with 205 tyres it was really rubbing very badly, it would have burst the tyres if left at that height.

 

[MG cup]

Is it just a light rub or is there actual obstruction? I'm guessing it's just on full lock?I'm not too low at the moment - just sportlines.

I had sportlines, 16/205/45 tyres with an et 30 offset and only got rubbing with cup wishbones in really slow stuff, manoeuvring in car parks etc, the tyres will run through the bulbous piece of the arch liner that covers the bumper bracket and you will be fine.Anything more than 172 cup caster and you will have no arch liners and parts of your bumper missing if your on 16's

 

[mikeh]

Well I already had cup wishbones and had no rubbing issues with either my previous 16s or current 15s (195/50/15).

I guess it'll be a case of try it and see - my autotest tyres (195/50/15 R888 SGs) will be the real test, I suspect.

Worst case scenario, I'll just ditch the arch liners for now.

 

[MG cup]

Drive harder

The wheel offset and tyre width being the key to my rubbing.

195/50/15's will be a lot better for room than a 205/45/16 too.

 

[NorthloopCup]

Is it just a light rub or is there actual obstruction? I'm guessing it's just on full lock?

I'm not too low at the moment - just sportlines.

Mine rubbed on the bumper bracket (since fully removed) and also on the inner arch tub itself. It mainly happens on full compression of the suspension for me. I run 205/50 15 r888's and I'm running 12.5mm wider track than a normal cup. This is done the correct way and not using spacers.

 

[mikeh]

Drive harder

The wheel offset and tyre width being the key to my rubbing.

195/50/15's will be a lot better for room than a 205/45/16 too.

I had 205/45/16 and did autotests with such - no rubbing. I guess it's down to your offset.

Mine rubbed on the bumper bracket (since fully removed) and also on the inner arch tub itself. It mainly happens on full compression of the suspension for me. I run 205/50 15 r888's and I'm running 12.5mm wider track than a normal cup. This is done the correct way and not using spacers.

How have you increased track without spacers? Did you completely redrill the wishbones?

 

[MG cup]

I had 205/45/16 and did autotests with such - no rubbing. I guess it's down to your offset.

Yeah that's what makes all the difference, the lower the offset you go the further forward the wheel travels hence mark saying doing it the proper way, knackers your scrub radius with big spacers

How have you increased track without spacers? Did you completely redrill the wishbones?

He has custom bottom ball joints or 'uniballs' as they are called, Marks kit is essentially a copy of the cup racer design using standard hubs which allows you to use other types of off the shelf suspension. It improves your roll centre and bump steer.

Group buy

http://www.cliosport.net/forum/showthread.php?717989-Roll-centre-bump-steer-corrector-hubs

 

[NorthloopCup]

How have you increased track without spacers? Did you completely redrill the wishbones?

With this: http://www.cliosport.net/forum/showthread.php?717989-Roll-centre-bump-steer-corrector-hubs

My own personal set are 10mm per wheel but the ones in the gb only go 5mm. The extra 3.5mm (apologies I posted it as 12.5mm per wheel previously) comes from running et35 15's. Doesn't effect the scrub geometry enough to worry.

 

[Chip-mk1]

Can I add that link to, I dont want to feel left out? lol

http://www.cliosport.net/forum/showthread.php?717989-Roll-centre-bump-steer-corrector-hubs


Seriously though, looks an awesome bit of kit and BigAsh has been raving about its effects on his race car.

 

[NorthloopCup]

Can I add that link to, I dont want to feel left out? lol

http://www.cliosport.net/forum/showthread.php?717989-Roll-centre-bump-steer-corrector-hubs


Seriously though, looks an awesome bit of kit and BigAsh has been raving about its effects on his race car.

Flol!

 

[MG cup]

Spacers knacker your scrub radius not your kit Mark, I didn't mean the opposite. Obviously wheel/spacer combo dependant but 25-30mm spacers will almost certainly knacker it.

 

[NorthloopCup]

Spacers knacker your scrub radius not your kit Mark, I didn't mean the opposite. Obviously wheel/spacer combo dependant but 25-30mm spacers will almost certainly knacker it.

Lol I'd not read that part of what you posted anyway mate! Was just skim reading! Lol

 

[mikeh]

That looks mighty impressive!

Are you doing one hit and calling it a day or do you have plans for ongoing supply?

 

[NorthloopCup]

That looks mighty impressive!

Are you doing one hit and calling it a day or do you have plans for ongoing supply?

Tbh mate I doubt the group buy will happen, so to answer your question, no there are no plans to do more. It will just be myself and James that have these very unique hubs if that's what occurs.

 

[Chip-mk1]

What is the minimum number for the group buy to happen then mate?