Low end

[iamo89]

Getting the urge again to do some things to the car. Was wondering if there's anything to get the bottom end up a bit? Already got 438 cams, exhaust and inlets.

 

[Dan@SJM]

You've fitted high revving cams. Sadly, that's the problem with them, you have to trade off low end for high end power. Throttle bodies will get you a bit, but that's it.

 

[iamo89]

Yeh did think about throttle bodies but moneys a bit tight. If that's the only option might try and save some. Cheers

 

[RS Charlie]

The cams will make life hard at the low end. Throttle bodies and careful mapping may help bring some of it back. In theory it could be done without the throttle body but you would end up with a car that would become unfriendly to drive at the low end (i.e a jerky and unpleasant throttle response at the low end).

 

[Mr Plums]

Booooooost!

 

[iamo89]

Yeh turbo or bodies would be quality but can't afford it at the mo. RS Charlie, u think another remap could make a difference.

 

[bozothenutter]

RS2?....does nice things to the torque curve.....

 

[RS Charlie]

Yeh turbo or bodies would be quality but can't afford it at the mo. RS Charlie, u think another remap could make a difference.

RS2?....does nice things to the torque curve.....

With a standard car a remap would make a difference since there is some leeway to play with regarding the fuel and ignition timing It has on my car! As soon as you start to go for relatively aggressive cams you will tend to end up with a trade off, with a lack of vacuum at the bottom end beginning to start at the low end. This basically means you can keep the ignition timing advanced to a similar (ish) level) before the tuning began, but your part throttle will become quite jerky. The way (or the bodge) around the part throttle issue is to r****d the timing in this region. However, the cost is low end throttle response. Throttle bodies can get around this to an extent but then things cost more and even throttle bodies are not quite as simple as a plenum manifold with a single thottle body ; balancing the throttle bodies for one!

My RST has a Piper 285 cam in and whilst it idles fine etc. it is jerky at light throttle now and again ; the technology limits how much you can mess about with the timing on it short of going to a standalone or EFI management. If I am honest, even my Clio is ever so slighty jerky (something a friend of mine really noticed coming from a stock 172) but it is not that bad and certainly a pleasure to drive around town.

Here is a man who can explain it better than me:

http://www.emeraldm3d.com/articles/apr2012/

 

[iamo89]

Nice one, good bit of info. Think I'll just stick to the remap I've got as it is quite smooth (even smoother after the service it's just had), but cheers for the info. Gona give it a year and get a megane 265. It's just gona get pricey if I carry on.

 

[RS Charlie]

From having two 'hot' hatches I have come to the same conclusion. My 944 was insane in pace in comparison to them but around the corners I probably would trust both of them more than the 944. I guess more power begins to ebb away the fun factor ; 70 came up very quickly as did three figures, but there is something about enjoying a car in the twisty bits.

 

[coverman]

Having a 924S and a 172 Cup, and having competed in both, I would certainly trust the Porsche more through fast bends, but for chucking about on country lanes the Clio is favourite. But what has this to do with the OP's question?.

 

[RS Charlie]

That is interesting :smile:. My 944 Turbo was on KWv3s. It was stupidly fast in the corners over a stock 944 but it also (and almost on ocassions on the track ) felt like it would snap and bite hard if you cocked something up; The Clio feels surprisingly forgiving at the limit (albeit the limits are reached a little earlier, but not as early as you would think in comparison).

My point to the OP is simple, albeit not with the ethos of CS. While we do tune our cars up with me being as guilty as anyone, in order to have your cake and eat it with linear power delivery and grip it will generally be better to go for another car altogether, one which came with the pace from the off with the handling. After all, don't we tell guys this with 1.6 Clios here? :wink:. OTOH I may have grown tired of throwing cash at cars over the years.

That said, my point was also that having a power/fun balance is also a great, possibly more important. Having loads of power is super fun but it can be a pain where it feels like the roads simply are 'too slow' for the car with it simply feeling 'ordinary' the rest of the time.

I do sometimes wonder if I would have been better off buying a quick car as opposed to trying to make what I had quicker at the time ; I did have fun I guess .