LSD - talk to me

[Cup_Phil]

My biggest priority for winter is to get a diff in the car.
Current thoughts are quaiffe as I do still want to occasionally use it on the road (ring trip especially) and the gripper might be a bit harsh. But I have also been looking at mfactory diffs as they seem to be popular with the jap lads and the clio 172 one is quite a bit cheaper than Quaiffe.

What's my best options though for a 118k gearbox. It makes no noises or crunches or anything (although the selector oil seal leaks like a b**ch) but can I send it off directly to quaiffe for LSD fitting, checkover and refresh/rebuild where necessary? Or do I need to send it off somewhere else for the check/refresh/rebuild - and then off to quaiffe for the diff fitting afterwards?

Oh and if anyone gets discounts with quaiffe and wants my eternal love - let me know lol

 

[Daniel]

Can't you buy a diff, then send the box and the diff to agency and get him to rebuild it at the same time?

 

[Cup_Phil]

Just found a thread about agency

Long way from me though but read a burpspeed thread where they said he can rebuild them all in a day while you're shopping
I'm wondering if it might be worth buying another gearbox, strip the diff out of it and send the diff to quaiffe so they can machine the crownwheel onto the LSD - then take the LSD with my gearbox to Agency and see if he can rebuild it all in a day.

Or I could buy another gearbox off ebay and have it delivered at Agency - but then I'm taking a risk on a 2nd hand gearbox and i've read quite a few horror stories on here

Shame no-one on here is selling a gearbox with diff...

 

[ed55j]

This is also on my list of jobs to do over the next few months, I am planning on a quaife lsd, new crown wheel and pinion (lower final drive) and send it all the agency along with my gearbox for a refresh. Thats the idea anyway. Oh and yes a quaife discount would be awesome being as the 1*2's seem to be the most expensive for some reason.

 

[BIGASH]

I'd just go for a gripper! Porkie has one and his car has done many trips to and from the ring plus from what he said its never had to be replated.

 

[fuad]

Gripper personally, cracking bit of kit in my opinion.

 

[Cup_Phil]

Hrmm it is tempting. They're slightly cheaper and my car did 3k last year and has done under 2k this year LOL!!

Are they at all difficult on the road - I've driven a few cars with diffs and they squirm around on bumpy roads pretty badly

 

[Joe#]

After reading quite a few reviews on here, I'd be more tempted by a Gripper.

 

[ed55j]

Hmm.. Gripper group buy?

 

[Pauleds]

What are the costs of each?

I would love to have an LSD again as I used to use quaiff atb in my 205's.
Difference with the 205 and the Clio is I could change the diff in the 205 in an hour or so rather than having bits machined.

i will have to get some overtime in to buy one!

 

[Ph1 Tom]

Love my Quaife. Fit and forget, does the job well. Had one in my last car too which is why I went for one in the Clio, don't regret it one bit.

Throttle in the bends pulls it in tighter, gets the power down earlier out of the bends. If you know where to go then you can get them for £900.

The Mfactory one is the same design as the Quaife, not sure how much cheaper it works out after you take into account shipping and customs charges.

You could always risk it and see if you get charged at customs, you might get lucky!

 

[Cup_Phil]

Pauleds - It seems to be around £845+vat for the diff (quaiffe) - I believe they machine your crownwheel and fit the diff to it free. Then it's £3-400 in labour to strip and rebuild your gearbox. But if you can do that yourself then you'd save those costs.
For me it's gonna be £1400 ish

Not been able to find any solid figures on gripper

 

[Cup_Phil]

Love my Quaife. Fit and forget, does the job well. Had one in my last car too which is why I went for one in the Clio, don't regret it one bit.

Throttle in the bends pulls it in tighter, gets the power down earlier out of the bends. If you know where to go then you can get them for £900.

The Mfactory one is the same design as the Quaife, not sure how much cheaper it works out after you take into account shipping and customs charges.

You could always risk it and see if you get charged at customs, you might get lucky!

One of the guys who does a lot of my mates civics etc... orders mfactory stuff a lot from the US so he might be able to get me one in a batch of the honda ones.

I might ask him how much it would work out as with import tax and fitting.

 

[Ph1 Tom]

My Quaife was £910 with delivery, that included Quaife fitting the crown wheel. Rebuild was £350 + vat but I believe Agency is much cheaper than that.

If you could get a Mfactory one over on the cheap you may as well do that.

 

[ed55j]

My Quaife was £910 with delivery, that included Quaife fitting the crown wheel. Rebuild was £350 + vat but I believe Agency is much cheaper than that.

If you could get a Mfactory one over on the cheap you may as well do that.

How did you get it that cheap, everywhere I have looked the diff alone is over a grand.

 

[the-darkhorse]

Got a gripper in mine . I know I use it mainly on track but it is road legal and I do drive it occasionally for the grin factor and to play up in it as to speak. . Its very manageable on road . I have mild ramp angles put in mine which was all done at gripper factory in coventry.what I did was sent box complete to gripper they then stripped down inspected rebuilt with there diff and ramp angles as requested or using there expert knowledge when u tell them what you use it for .. my bill was around just under £1500 inc postage . Not cheap but worth it imo

 

[Pauleds]

Does it include changing the CWP ratio with the quaife price? Or is that extra?

 

[imprezaworks]

Why am I thinking I've seen this thread before?!?. It's probably just me.

 

[NorthloopCup]

How did you get it that cheap, everywhere I have looked the diff alone is over a grand.

You just need to know the right people mate. Pm me if your after a Quaife or a gripper

 

[Cub.]

The gripper in mine has now done 4k ish, and is perfectly fine.

Its not too harsh, and in honesty the clunking / 'grabbing' that happens at low speeds doesn't bother me.

Without doubt, the best mod I have done on mine, and really makes a difference on track. Not experienced the Quaiffe, but I've had zero problems with the gripper on mine. Not cheap though, mine fitted was best part of £1500.

 

[Westyfield2]

My Quaife was £910 with delivery, that included Quaife fitting the crown wheel. Rebuild was £350 + vat but I believe Agency is much cheaper than that.

Suddenly sounds more tempting now!

 

[SharkyUK]

You just need to know the right people mate. Pm me if your after a Quaife or a gripper

^ This. Quaife. Sorted.

 

[MG cup]

If your going to do it and have the outlay you would be best having the gripper, the Quaife spins wheels just like an open diff does when the weights lifted which negates its purpose for me. If its a drag car or you drive the car for thousands of miles a year I can see its use, just go mild with ramp angles and pre load. The lower FD's are only a few hundred quid too.

 

[Dan@SJM]

Phil, let me know how much you could potentially get an M-factory item for.

 

[Cup_Phil]

You just need to know the right people mate. Pm me if your after a Quaife or a gripper

Oooh thanks mate I'll drop you a PM later in the month.

I'm still hugely conflicted, I want to enter sprints in the car next year and a time attack round or two so if gripper makes a huge difference on track over quaiffe I'd rather go that route and just live with it on the road. It's not like it's a road car anyway it's just likely to do a few ring trips next year.

Phil, let me know how much you could potentially get an M-factory item for.

I'm still trying to work it all out mate but in the US they sell for £465.
If I imported one I'd have to pay 20% but also import tax and I'm finding it hard to work out how much that would be - but potentially somewhere between £600 and £700 which is a huge saving.

 

[Chip-mk1]

If your going to do it and have the outlay you would be best having the gripper, the Quaife spins wheels just like an open diff does when the weights lifted which negates its purpose for me. If its a drag car or you drive the car for thousands of miles a year I can see its use, just go mild with ramp angles and pre load. The lower FD's are only a few hundred quid too.

When was the last time you fully lifted a front wheel in the clio at the point you had the power on coming out of a bend? I dont think I ever have TBH.

The quaiffe will only spin the wheel if its literally off the ground, if its just leant over very hard and got only a few percent of the grip that the outside while has its still fine and will work no problem.

Dont get me wrong, in terms of ultimate lap times I would take the gripper if I wasnt bothered about road manners or the fact the gripper requires more maintainance, but you are making the quaiffe sound like its little better than standard and that just isnt the case at all, its a huge improvement.

They are 900 quid all in including machining if you know where to go, the gripper needs either the standard crownwheel machining and fitting to an adaptor to fit, or the purchace of a gripper FD, so it ends up costing a little more typically.

 

[Chip-mk1]

Oooh thanks mate I'll drop you a PM later in the month.

I'm still hugely conflicted, I want to enter sprints in the car next year and a time attack round or two so if gripper makes a huge difference on track over quaiffe I'd rather go that route and just live with it on the road. It's not like it's a road car anyway it's just likely to do a few ring trips next year.

Gripper is more suited to that, slight bit of noise on full lock at low speeds and parallel parking etc, but nothing thats a big drama.

 

[Cup_Phil]

I'm trying to do this winters rebuild and next years events to a proper budget this time - rather than just throwing money at stuff left right and center like usual

Costs at the moment are looking like £1500ish for gripper, £1200ish for quaiffe and £900ish for mfactory
As chip said I don't remember ever lifting a front wheel, and tbh the car is only a 200bhp clio so I'm wondering if gripper is a bit overkill for my spec.
From the budget point of view if I went mfactory the spare money could be spent on a set of R888's which I think would be better than a gripper and budget tyres.

 

[Ph1 Tom]

I'm still trying to work it all out mate but in the US they sell for £465.
If I imported one I'd have to pay 20% but also import tax and I'm finding it hard to work out how much that would be - but potentially somewhere between £600 and £700 which is a huge saving.

Add the cost of machining the crownwheel to the Mfactory one as well, not sure how much that is. Then £900 for the Quaife isn't so bad for an all in price.

 

[Chip-mk1]

Buy the tyres first, they will make more difference than any of the diffs, you are nuts if you go out trying to be competitive on budget tyres anyway.

 

[Chip-mk1]

Add the cost of machining the crownwheel to the Mfactory one as well, not sure how much that is. Then £900 for the Quaife isn't so bad for an all in price.

Also the quaiffes hold their value well too, as they need no maintenance and will happily last 100,000 miles with no drama (hence manufacturers commonly use them) so people will pay close to the new price for a secondhand one. So that will be handy when Phil yet again decides to break it, lol.

 

[Martin.]

The maintenance of the Gripper puts me off because that's all costs I can't personally escape.

So for me the Quaife sounds the much better option with the fit and forget attitude. Even if it's only 3/4 or 2/3 as good.

 

[Cup_Phil]

Add the cost of machining the crownwheel to the Mfactory one as well, not sure how much that is. Then £900 for the Quaife isn't so bad for an all in price.

That is very true.

 

[Cup_Phil]

Also the quaiffes hold their value well too, as they need no maintenance and will happily last 100,000 miles with no drama (hence manufacturers commonly use them) so people will pay close to the new price for a secondhand one. So that will be handy when Phil yet again decides to break it, lol.

I would have thought the same would apply to an mfactory as well though

 

[George182]

Quaiffe group buy?

 

[MG cup]

When was the last time you fully lifted a front wheel in the clio at the point you had the power on coming out of a bend? I dont think I ever have TBH.

The quaiffe will only spin the wheel if its literally off the ground, if its just leant over very hard and got only a few percent of the grip that the outside while has its still fine and will work no problem.

Every corner at Knockhill except the hairpin and then you still do lift a wheel if you take the tight line.

Rubbish....your car lights the wheels up for fun (or should I say wheel) and Tonys 215bhp race car also does it as soon as it touches a kerb on the inside, he agreed when I mentioned it in a video. Don't get me wrong I bet its a great improvement over standard but it is essentially an open diff in function.

As chip said I don't remember ever lifting a front wheel

Phil you should know that your on two wheels more than four at KH from recently being there, it isn't just when a wheel is lifted either, when you hit rumble strips with a Quaife they s**t themselves.

Iirc there is no machining to be done on the standard crown wheel for a gripper if its the bolted type diff box you have fitted it into and you don't need modified shafts either like you had to, its a modified design.

 

[Chip-mk1]

Every corner at Knockhill except the hairpin and then you still do lift a wheel if you take the tight line.

You're lifting a FRONT wheel on every corner after the apex?
If so you need to work on your suspension setup surely?

Rubbish....your car lights the wheels up for fun (or should I say wheel) and Tonys 215bhp race car also does it as soon as it touches a kerb on the inside, he agreed when I mentioned it in a video. Don't get me wrong I bet its a great improvement over standard but it is essentially an open diff in function.

Sorry but I dont agree at all its nothing like an open diff unless you actually have a wheel off the ground, I dont know where you have got the idea mine lights up a wheel a lot as it just doesnt IME, it did massively so whenever you went near the power coming out of a bend before I fitted the diff, but now its much better, only way it lights up now is if you really do something silly with it.

When we took the two black cars to llandow for example, I was getting wheelspin in the N/A one with about 150lbft FAR worse than in the turbo and diff'd one with more than double that.

Iirc there is no machining to be done on the standard crown wheel for a gripper if its the bolted type diff box you have fitted it into and you don't need modified shafts either like you had to, its a modified design.

Im not aware of any standard clio diff where the crownwheel bolts on like it does on a vauxhall etc.

 

[Chip-mk1]

I would have thought the same would apply to an mfactory as well though

Im not convinced, Quaiffe have a really good name over here, that I just dont think mfactory do, not outside of jap circles.

But only one way to find out I guess!

 

[Cup_Phil]

Every corner at Knockhill except the hairpin and then you still do lift a wheel if you take the tight line.

Rubbish....your car lights the wheels up for fun (or should I say wheel) and Tonys 215bhp race car also does it as soon as it touches a kerb on the inside, he agreed when I mentioned it in a video. Don't get me wrong I bet its a great improvement over standard but it is essentially an open diff in function.

Phil you should know that your on two wheels more than four at KH from recently being there, it isn't just when a wheel is lifted either, when you hit rumble strips with a Quaife they s**t themselves.

Iirc there is no machining to be done on the standard crown wheel for a gripper if its the bolted type diff box you have fitted it into and you don't need modified shafts either like you had to, its a modified design.

Most cars are on two wheels at Knockhill because the rumble strips are all cuttable - that's fairly unique from my experience of circuits. The ones at cadwell certainly aren't, and hitting a few at brands nearly put me on my roof lol. The ones at anglesey that you can go wide on or cut are virtually flat, more like mesh than rumble strips. The actual rumble strips are fairly big and you loose speed hitting them as they destabilise the car IME.

Also even at knockhill you're on two wheels at the point of the apex, and only briefly. You shouldn't really be applying power at that point - you'd be applying power as you're coming out of the corner.

I think if I hit every bumpstrip everywhere on the circuits I do - I'd have a lot more problems with bent wishbones/wheels/track rods than I would the diff not letting me put the power down on 2 wheels lol

 

[MG cup]

Nothing to do with suspension its just the way the land lies at KH. Yes EVERY corner as you have to be on the power before the apex of every corner.

Duffus- 4th to 3rd, settle the car and power on before the apex clipping the sausage kerb (lifting both wheels) with power on right down to mcintyres, lifting the inside left while still on the power depending how much kerb you take.

Macintyres- brake and power on before the apex nearly clipping the sausage kerb (lifting both wheels, 3rd to 2nd in the wet) then power right through butchers.

Chicane- comfort lift coming up the rise, lump the left sausage car and then power on before the exit apex ( again lifting both wheels twice in the one corner)

Clarks- buzz 3rd gear brake and balance the car, power on before the apex (again lifting both wheels)

Same at the chicane if you take the tight line.

I'm not getting into a s**t throwing comp but I gave my opinion on the OP and for Phils use and the outlay he would be best doing it right and do it once and get a gripper, I'm not slating Quaifes there just not that good for anything other than a car that gets loads of road miles.

Also grippers residual value isn't anything worse than a Quaife, if there in good nick then there worth more.