Aren't the cup gearboxes lower final drive anyway?
I've certainly never felt mine needed changing
I've certainly never felt mine needed changing
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LSD - talk to me
- Thread starter Cup_Phil
- Start date
Ph2 are lower than Ph1
I'm just looking on ebay
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Renault-S...rParts_SM&fits=Model:Clio&hash=item20d80b552c
£180 for a cup gearbox with 70k on. I'm wondering if it might be worth buying a 2nd hand one as mines done nearly 120k now. Send that one off for a rebuild and diff fitting - then just sell mine when I swap them.
Would mean I could get the gearbox all sorted before the engine comes out - keep the car on the road for another few months.
Not sure if it's a case of better the devil you know though.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Renault-S...rParts_SM&fits=Model:Clio&hash=item20d80b552c
£180 for a cup gearbox with 70k on. I'm wondering if it might be worth buying a 2nd hand one as mines done nearly 120k now. Send that one off for a rebuild and diff fitting - then just sell mine when I swap them.
Would mean I could get the gearbox all sorted before the engine comes out - keep the car on the road for another few months.
Not sure if it's a case of better the devil you know though.
Just to add, with the gripper in James' clio i could get on the power way before the apex, that's either me braking too much (possible LOL) or the diff is really amazing, looking at the data Vs James however i believe i was quicker in and out of most of the corners bar island at Oulton
My input has been favouring the Quaife as I have no experience of a gripper but a friend of mine competes in the XR Challenge and will quite happily run a Quaife or a Gripper, he does favour the Gripper for competition though, its a bit more agressive and works if you happen to have a front wheel in the air.
I really can't think of a time I've had my front wheel in the air even after hitting curbs hard, and the Quaife works fine if the kerbs are wet.
I wouldn't mind a go of a car with a gripper though, would be interesting to feel the differences.
I too chose the Quaife due to lower costs, although I would have liked the option of a different final drive, I was hoping for 4.27 but it wasn't possible.
They do, my Fiesta turbo would happily do that too.
On the Fiesta before the Quaife I had an uprated viscous diff, that would lock much more than the Quaife, understeer in corners and pull left-right very strongly. With the Quiafe you could keep tight in the bends and it didn't pull anywhere near as much
Yes, I fitted the 4.067 final to my Ph1 in place of the 3.89.
I really can't think of a time I've had my front wheel in the air even after hitting curbs hard, and the Quaife works fine if the kerbs are wet.
I wouldn't mind a go of a car with a gripper though, would be interesting to feel the differences.
I too chose the Quaife due to lower costs, although I would have liked the option of a different final drive, I was hoping for 4.27 but it wasn't possible.
They do, my Fiesta turbo would happily do that too.
On the Fiesta before the Quaife I had an uprated viscous diff, that would lock much more than the Quaife, understeer in corners and pull left-right very strongly. With the Quiafe you could keep tight in the bends and it didn't pull anywhere near as much
Yes, I fitted the 4.067 final to my Ph1 in place of the 3.89.
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172 cup, Impreza P1
Personally, IMO, if you can do all your own maintenance and use the car very competitively and want a lower FD then the gripper sounds the baby for you.
If you want a fit and forget, use the car on the road as well as track, are happy with the gearing of your box and accept you might lose some grip with one driven wheel in the air then the Quaiffe is for you.
I am leaning towards the Quaiffe but see the arguments for both!
If you want a fit and forget, use the car on the road as well as track, are happy with the gearing of your box and accept you might lose some grip with one driven wheel in the air then the Quaiffe is for you.
I am leaning towards the Quaiffe but see the arguments for both!
^^ Ditto I'm leaning towards the Quaiffe because of cost, no maintenance and high re-sale value. But I can fully see the advantages of a gripper.
If I was in a situation where the engine loom was on just one bulkhead connector and an engine/gearbox removal was a few hours work I might consider the gripper - but because of what a pain it is to get it all out I think the Quaiffe is the way I'm gonna go
End of the day a quaiffe with R888's is going to be night and day compared to no diff and rainsports lol
If I was in a situation where the engine loom was on just one bulkhead connector and an engine/gearbox removal was a few hours work I might consider the gripper - but because of what a pain it is to get it all out I think the Quaiffe is the way I'm gonna go
End of the day a quaiffe with R888's is going to be night and day compared to no diff and rainsports lol
Depends how the ramp angle is set, but yes a general trait is to increase understeer in certain circumstances.
Also worth mentioning the gripper requires a non standard gearbox oil to be used, so thats another small cost as well.
It will make more differences than coilovers IME, which means for you it will add about 50mph to every corner I guess, lol.
900 quid new for a quaiffe complete with the machining to fit the flywheel but not fitted in the box.
Then approx 225 for a rebuild and fit of the diff by agency (I had two done and one was 175 and one was 275 IIRC)
So 1125 ish, based on having a decent condition box, thats not including fluids or any labour to fit and remove the box though.
Gripper IIRC was slightly cheaper for the diff, but then more expensive to fit the final drive to, at 1500 though you still paid top price for it IMHO.
The prices seem to be around £900 with crownwheel machine and pressed on
A locked diffs a locked diff Chip, ramp angles only determine how quickly it snatches and the preload how well it holds together.
My argument wasn't cost in any way shape or form for ref as it keeps getting mentioned, I was just looking for the best. Morris box oil isn't that expensive anyway so its pence over your standard elf stuff, I wouldn't choose one or the other over oil price anyway.
Thanks for that mate!
So looking like £1150 -> £1350 depending on how much of the gearbox needs rebuilt.
I think I'm gonna go quaife unless the mfactory quote comes in at like £800 - which I can't see happening tbh.
They can understeer before they "lock" anyway, and they wont always lock, depends on the corner and the settings.
Cost was no issue to me either as due to me wanting to use the standard final drives anyway (ph1 suits the turbo and the ph2 is ok for the mk1 and perfect for the RB) there wouldnt have been much cost difference in it anyway for me, I just went for a quaiffe as the turbo i use on the road a lot too and wanted the road manners, and in the mk1 the gearbox is only temporary and intended for the RB when I do the honda conversion on the mk1 and the RB is mainly a road car and only intended for occaisonal track use.
So the gripper is cheaper at retail prices (can be found cheaper) against your reduced price for a Quaife that you can source. Gripper don't have to rebuild the box FYI, anyone can.
My box was maybe strong money but it was cheaper than any that was for sale at the time (haven't looked since as I researched them both at the time) it was acid dipped, lower FD fitted and rebuilt only a few hundred miles before.
No because you also have to buy the gripper crownwheel and pinion.
They're £1500 at retail prices including the crownwheel and pinion.
You have to pay to have it adapted to fit the gripper, the quaiffe includes that in the price though.
There isnt going to be much in it cost wise between quaiffe or gripper with a standard final drive.
But I suspect resale of the gripper with standard final drive might be harder as most people wanting the gripper will want it for competition use and wont want the standard FD.
Normally I would say listen to Lee, but in this instance with that 2.5 year old quote I wouldnt as I dont think his car at the time was a good test of the bits.
Lee had it fitted at the same as the ITBs so never did a back to back comparison with and without it on the same engine spec, and his car at the time was making rubbish power (this wasnt the engine done by me and mike, it was the old one which was standard cams and had some issues too) and also had the wrong gearbox oil I believe, which would have been effecting the operation of the diff.
In the same thread he also said this:
Which further backs up what I am saying this I dont think the diff was working as it should anyway.
In his car NOW, Im sure if he went back to a standard diff he WOULD notice the difference, I can certainly feel the gripper working when I drive his car on track.
Lee had it fitted at the same as the ITBs so never did a back to back comparison with and without it on the same engine spec, and his car at the time was making rubbish power (this wasnt the engine done by me and mike, it was the old one which was standard cams and had some issues too) and also had the wrong gearbox oil I believe, which would have been effecting the operation of the diff.
In the same thread he also said this:
Which further backs up what I am saying this I dont think the diff was working as it should anyway.
In his car NOW, Im sure if he went back to a standard diff he WOULD notice the difference, I can certainly feel the gripper working when I drive his car on track.
182cup & 172 racecar
I've driven Lee's at Bedford, and I can tell you, there is a difference.
I also noticed when racing against James at Mallory, getting the power down out of the hairpin, I had to be slightly more gentle on the throttle and lost any advantage I had gained under braking into said corner.
We got the Quaife megga cheap, so really there was no contest in decision making.
You can learn to drive them quickly, but you just can't plant your foot down and hope for the best.
The ones we had in Hungary were set very aggressive, and would understeer at a drop of a hat, again you have to learn the knack.
I also noticed when racing against James at Mallory, getting the power down out of the hairpin, I had to be slightly more gentle on the throttle and lost any advantage I had gained under braking into said corner.
We got the Quaife megga cheap, so really there was no contest in decision making.
You can learn to drive them quickly, but you just can't plant your foot down and hope for the best.
The ones we had in Hungary were set very aggressive, and would understeer at a drop of a hat, again you have to learn the knack.
182cup & 172 racecar
I'll admit standing on the hairpin at Mallory watching you guys - the way James' car puts the power down at that corner is INSANE.
You could hear he was nailing it far earlier than anyone else.
Hrmmm ok.
I appreciate all the feedback guys. I think I'm gonna budget for the tyres, and a trip to Fred for belts/rod bolts/tidy up, need to buy an engine crane, do my towing licence and apply for my non-race licence. If what's left out of my xmas bonus (lol) is enough for a gripper I'll go for that - otherwise it'll be an omex.
As per usual like a moron I'm juggling two hobbies and about to buy £1100's worth of lenses for my camera haha
182cup & 172 racecar
On those occasions Chip, I was already back on 4 wheels before needing power.
Chip - Without us punching each other? 
Is that Donnington Tony? The 2nd tier of that kerb looks sore.
You would be going some left foot braking at the type of corner (tight mid speed) you typically lift a wheel, a sequential box you might manage but it's just not a feasible option afaic. I would think the diff will not function right from when it hits the kerbs until after its on the ground and its settled again so quite a time to not be pushing forward.
You would be going some left foot braking at the type of corner (tight mid speed) you typically lift a wheel, a sequential box you might manage but it's just not a feasible option afaic. I would think the diff will not function right from when it hits the kerbs until after its on the ground and its settled again so quite a time to not be pushing forward.
I've no hard feelings to you or anyone else who occasionally throws a wobbler at me on here mate.Chip - Without us punching each other?
Would happily help out every user of the site. To me we're all good mates and any disagreement is mere friendly banter. If others view it differently then it's probably less fun for them talking on here to me than it is me to them.
Nah doesn't need to be "settled", the moment there is any suspension compression at all it will start to drive both wheels even if one spins a bit still, not as well as a gripper but still way better than an open diff which only ever drives the wheel with least grip and would need to be settled.
All your comments about quaiffe diffs read true for an open diff but are almost all entirely nonsense about the quaiffe.
I've no hard feelings to you or anyone else who occasionally throws a wobbler at me on here mate.
Would happily help out every user of the site. To me we're all good mates and any disagreement is mere friendly banter. If others view it differently then it's probably less fun for them talking on here to me than it is me to them.
That's very nice of you - I'm sure if we compare penis sizes first it'll be fine
