mass of clio’s + more - all help please!

[Ben j]

right i need (for setting up my ap22 meter for everyone to use on the airfields meet)

the mass (total weight of car + driver + half tank fuel)

cda - aerodynamic figure for the car

rolling resistance

of all clios

V6 mk1
172
182
1.6 16v
1.4 16v
1.2 16v
williams
16v
rsi
rts

know a lot of the cdas will be the same but if anyone can help please with all these figures thatd be great and ud be the bestest person in the world everererer
thankyou!!!!!!

oh and if anyone knows for a vts too, thatd be nice

 

[fizzy_drink]

I dont even know what half that stuff is!

Free bump for ya!

 

[Tucks]

I got these weights out of the back of a Max power If they are any use m8?...(KGs)

Willy-981,Valver-1018,172-1059,182-1021,V6-1335,VTS-935,GT turbo-793

Some of the tec-ies will have to take over for the other stuff,but theres a start.

 

[JonnyK]

could try carfolio.com , lot of info on there

 

[Ben j]

tucks, i think theyre kerb weighs mate. seem too low. plus a willy cant weigh less than a valver - but i guess thats max power for ya!

 

[edde]

Drag coeffic for the 182 is 0.35 and weights 1090kg kerb

Drag coeffic for the 172 is 0.36 and weights 1090kg kerb

Drag coeffic for a 1.2 16V new shape is 0.35 and weights 930kg kerb

Drag coeffic for a 1.4 16V new shape is 0.35 and weights 1000kg kerb

Drag coeffic for a 1.6 16V new shape is 0.35 and weights 1040kg kerb

Drag coeffic for the Mk2 V6 is 0.37 and weights 1400KG kerb (mk1 will be about the same).

These are the Renault figures and since the 172 and 182 arealmost the same I think a 0.01 change is Cdp iss unlikly more likly the figures are 0.354 for the 182 and 0.355 for th 172 and the figures just round up.

Dont forget you need the frontal area to work out drag the V6 and normal Clios will be different.

 

[Ben j]

edde! u are a star! dont suppose u know what it is for my sax vts too?

0.35 is real low! thought it was higher than that!

 

[unofficialPete]

1.4 8v Mk1 Phase 3 would be useful as well although I might strip it..

 

[edde]

Quote: Originally posted by Ben j on 06 February 2005

edde! u are a star! dont suppose u know what it is for my sax vts too?

0.35 is real low! thought it was higher than that!

The VTS is apparently 935kg. Drag coefficient is 0.33 with a frontal area of 1.82

0.35 is high and low it all depends what your compairing it to for aircrat thats bad for buses that quite good.

Just found out the Clio Mk2 V6 is 0.372 drag coeff, 2.02 frontal area

A Mk1 V6 has frontal area of 2.01 and 0.37 drag coeff.

A Mk1 172 has figures of 0.358 drag coeff and frontal area of 1.94

A normal Mk2 Clio has a frontal area of 1.89 and the Sports have an area of 1.94.

 

[edde]

Quote: Originally posted by BluePete on 06 February 2005

1.4 8v Mk1 Phase 3 would be useful as well although I might strip it..

Thats an RT? If so

The drag coeffi is 0.32 and has a cerb weight of 850kg.

All info gathered from http://www.globalcar.com/datasheet/Renault/1999RenaultClioII1.616V.htmhere.

 

[Ben j]

edde so the drag coefficient is the cda yea? what does the frontal area achieve please? for drag? i dont understand

 

[Ben j]

wat does the Cx mean too?

 

[edde]

Quote: Originally posted by Ben j on 06 February 2005

edde so the drag coefficient is the cda yea? what does the frontal area achieve please? for drag? i dont understand

Yep Cda is drag coefffic.

Cda is just a ratio of how efficient it is.

You need to multiply the Cda by the frontal area and then times by air pressure (dependant on many variables) to work out the frontal drag.

Ill try and do a few rought calculations at work tommorow to give you a better idea.

 

[Ben j]

oh cool cheers mate! this sounds complex stuff!

 

[edde]

Quote: Originally posted by Ben j on 08 February 2005

oh cool cheers mate! this sounds complex stuff!

Its not to bad.

Ill try and write some stuff up but so long as you can go flat out in a car you can work out the power very accuratly with a calculator.

 

[edde]

To work out drag you need the Cdp and the frontal area and the top speed car car attains and how much HP the car makes when the cars flat out .

Take for example a car with a Cdp of 0.3 and a frontal area of 3m squared (32.3 feet squared)
It has a equivalent frontal drag of 32.3 x 0.3 = 9.69ft squared.

This figure is what you need when calculating drag at a particular speed. What the figure is meant to represent is the cars equivalent flat plate drag ie what would the car be equal to in terms of a flat piece of material striagt on to the oncoming air.

To find out the drag multiply this equivalent frontal drag by the dynamic air pressure at the speed since the faster you go the more the more the drag this dynamic air pressure isnt constant.

At 57.5mph = 10
At 115mph = 33
At 138mph = 50
At 172.5mph = 75
At 230mph = 140

(See this and this for a spreadsheet graph to get accurate value for the dynamic pressure over a bigger range)

So to find out the air drag of the vahicle multiply the above figure by the equivalent flat plate drag area.

So assume our car of 9.69ft maxes out at 138mph then the drag from the car (tyre drag not included) is 9.69 x 50 = 484.5lb drag so assuming that the was no tyre drag and the car had a long enough road the car with a 484.5lb thrust turbo jet would reach 138mph dead although it might take a lifetime to get there.

To convert this lb drag to an equivalent hp you multiply it by the speed in MPH and by 1.467. Then divide this figure by 550.

So for our example 484.5 x 1.468 x 138 = 98085

Then 98085 / 550 = 178hp.

So out car has 178hp at the ground (assuming its flat out and it isnt at the rev limiter).
Then we ned to add a few hp to the car to account for the drag the tyres generate so 10hp isnt a bad guess.
Therefore at whatever rpm gave the flat our speed the engine has 188hp.


This above calcs arnt totally accurate since air pressure varies not just with speed but also altitude and temp along with constistance but its accurate enough for most people. Also other facts ie ram effect on the intake (ie the Ferrari 550 uses its ugly scoop) will have an effeect on engine power since more air is going into the engine.


Another example is a 172 Clio it has a Cdp of 0.36 and a frontal area of 2.01m squared (multiply by 10.76 to get ft squared so 21.64 square feet)

We will assume it will achieve 138mph which is about right Evo manged on the speedbowl so its not to bad a guess.

Therefore: fronal area x Cdp x dynamic air pressure at the speed x 1.468 x speed in MPH / 550 = HP at ground at that RPM
21.64 x 0.36 x 50 x 1.468 x 138 / 550 = 143hp at 6.9k (assume 20mph per thousand RPM)

Assume an extra 10hp from the drag of the tyres then a 172 has 153hp before the gearbox which is quite accurate since I havnt fiddled the figures to fit.


Another example is a 1.4 Clio it has a Cdp of 0.36 and a frontal area of 1.89m squared (multiply by 10.76 to get ft squared so 20.3 square feet)

We will assume it will achieve 115mph.

Therefore: fronal area x Cdp x dynamic air pressure at the speed x 1.468 x speed in MPH / 550 = HP at ground at that RPM
20.3 x 0.36 x 33 x 1.468 x 115 / 550 = 74hp at 5.75k (assume 20mph per thousand RPM)

Assume an extra 5~10hp from the drag of the tyres (there smaller than 172 etc ones) so a 1.4 has 79~84hp before the gearbox which is not bad, it shows that a 1.2 wont get to a real 115mph without a reduction in drag or a hill (which gives the car more energy which means more power).


An interesting thing is using these equations you can work out what sort of power youd need to do 200mph in a Clio (aassuming you have a long enough ratio box)

fronal area x Cdp x dynamic air pressure at the speed x 1.468 x speed in MPH / 550 = hp required
20.3 x 0.36 x 110 x 1.468 x 200 / 550 = 429hp

A normal shell is less draggy so this is what we would use. but we need 429hp to get there and even if we have a diesel box giving us 35mph/thousand rpm the engine need to make 429hp at 5.7k.

429hp is expensive (2 x 172 engine with N20 or throttle bodies maybe, or a highly tunned turbo engine) but if you go back to the equuation all you need is


fronal area x Cdp x dynamic air pressure at the speed = lb thrust turbo jet engine
20.3 x 0.36 x 110 = 803.88 lb thrust which is a very low poer turbo jet. A l-29 last generation engine makes 1850lb thrust for £5k.

Since the L-29s turbo jet engine will make 1850 or so power how fast would a Clio with this engine go?

Well for 230mph it needs

Fronal area x Cdp x dynamic air pressure at the speed = lb thrust turbo jet engine
20.3 x 0.36 x 140 = 1023lb

For 345mph it needs

Fronal area x Cdp x dynamic air pressure at the speed = lb thrust turbo jet engine
20.3 x 0.36 x 300 = 2192.4lb

But to get to 345mph in a normal engined Clio wed need

fronal area x Cdp x dynamic air pressure at the speed x 1.468 x speed in MPH / 550 = hp required
20.3 x 0.36 x 300 x 1.468 x 345 / 550 = 2019hp


Ok so the figures Ive used for the 172 etc probably arnt right but I had to guess at work sicne I dont have net access.

Hope that makes some sence.

 

[cat171]

^^^^
sod that explanation, you must be well brainy mate !

 

[fUbAr]

ben your taking sundays meet very seriously... im gettin worried

 

[Ben j]

OMG! eddes gone mad!

fubar - this is just so we can set the ap22 up for anyone and people can see what they 0-60 etc