Methanol/Ethanol alternative fuels

[Fred@BTM]

mainly aimed at the engine geeks this one

when petrol supplies do eventually run out, what are all the performance cars going to run on??

Indy cars/drag cars have been on Methanol for ages

what are the effects/moddifications required to run say a 172 on meths???

IIRC from my chemistry days, methanol and ethanol burn a lot hoter than petrol??

ellaboration below please

 

[BenR]

meths is stoich at 6.4:1 so you have to tune differently for AFR and EGT, apart from the nature of the burn you dont have to build the engine radically different.

But, in the future, i'd say hydrogen is going to move forward and/or fuel cells.

electricity isnt there yet for commercial use....which is always the target.

 

[Ali]

It's ok fred you've got another 50yrs in the north sea left of oil and although everyone's panicking. There's enough crude in PAn-asia foir another 200yrs!!! Providing the c***s in yank get with the times and stop building 6litre engines.

 

[BenR]

and charging 50% of what we get in LA, which is their expensive! lol

 

[Fred@BTM]

i'm just thinking because obviously the petrol price is going to escalate and i believe Methanol and Ethanol are relativley cheap to make

 

[Ali]

Methanol are a further breakdown of Petroleum spirits. Same base chemical element. Our race fuel is a mix, All we do to compensate is change the compression. Tho at over 150 a barrel for 25l, it's impossible to test competively

 

[martynh]

The Tesco 99 fuel has bio-ethanol in it. About 5% if I remember correctly.

 

[MATT BLACK]

We will use the Hydrogen / oxygen powered engines that are available once the large oil corperations have run out of oil. They have bought the designs and the patent for this and will bring it into production when our natural oil resources have been depleted. But 1st of all they will make billions selling us the fuel we currently buy, as they cant have us filling up our cars for free with tap water !!!


( of course water will be £5 a gallon in 2500 AD )

 

[BenR]

yea, and we wont have much of that left either lol.

They had better make desalinisation cheap......and fast.

 

[RichMcc]

Flinstones! Meet the Flinstones! They're a modern stone age family!!!

 

[run115]

mainly aimed at the engine geeks this one

when petrol supplies do eventually run out, what are all the performance cars going to run on??

Indy cars/drag cars have been on Methanol for ages

what are the effects/moddifications required to run say a 172 on meths???

IIRC from my chemistry days, methanol and ethanol burn a lot hoter than petrol??

ellaboration below please

Fred to run a car on methanol you need a fuel pump designed for it, with an inlet and outlet of about half inch to one inch depending on the bhp you are looking at. Top Methanol dragsters with 454ci v8 use a moroso pump with an 1 and a half inch inlet and outlet. But then they have about 2000-3000bhp!! It is not that easy to convert an egine on methanol cos everything has to be designed around it. Like when adding nos, for that to work correctly and with good gains, everything has to be designes around it.

Vince

 

[® Andy]

The Tesco 99 fuel has bio-ethanol in it. About 5% if I remember correctly.

Yep ... well I think officially it's "up to 5%". Apparently bio-ethanol has a higher RON rating so it helps make up the 99, and is "greener".

I enjoy the performance the Tescos 99 gives me ... but I'm less struck on the reduction in MPG without any change in driving style.

 

[Harry_manback]

on a slighly more worrying note, they are making diesel lambo's sport diesel BMW's
maybe diesel coudl replace petrol.

although i agree with the hydrogen theory.


also i see BMW are testing a steam turbine which runs off the heat generated in the exhaust of a petrol engine to give around 20bhp more at the fly and a greater MPG too.

 

[BenR]

but then you have to carry alot of water......and weight.

 

[Harry_manback]

and petrols dead light.

going back to what fred said, and somthing i had toyed with at one point.
we were at college and were playing with electrolysis. i pondered getting some kind of water tank in the car with a metal case connected to ground. and have an electrode in there joined to a d.c supply, the idea being that the current turns the water (demineralised) into hydrogen. then have this mixed with the air feed inlet. if it had worked it would prolly of melted my engine on reflection.

i got shot to bits on the old forum so i never went any further. its gotta be the way forward

 

[stan*]

hydrogen will be the future race fuel...i'll make sure of it! its a very suitable fuel.

cars have been made to run on water where the electrolysis seperation of water is carried out on board....ive seen videos....BUT for performnace use, i doubt the rate of production would match the rate of requirment. the alternative is on-board storage of the raw material. this typically comes in 2 forms; gas and liquid. both have pro's and cons. in short, stored as a gas is difficult since it needs to be stored under high pressure=heavy tank. but better power potential during combustion. as a fluid it can be stored in a capillary type tank using and organic absorbtion material...i forget the name. in either case, for racing for eg. the re-fil time is MASSIVE. quickest is something lkike 15mins!!! so, replacable tank/cell containging fuel?

either way it has good performance potential with regard to BOTH power and economy

 

[BenR]

imagine a 15 min pit stop in f1.....lol.

driver on a massage board with a ice tea, mechanics playing xbox.