MK1 172 = Slightly scary handling

[rt172]

I preferred the handling in my MK2 172, and much prefer the handling in the Williams. Bar the 3mm lowering of the Cup (Im thinking of 30mm on Eibach springs for mine) and some 16" wheels, what else do I need to do to copy the 172 Cups suspension set up?

Oh yes, is it something that can be done by a competant garage and are there any parts involved or is it just adjustments to the existing set up? Cost?

Cheers,

Rhys

 

[KDF]

I believe there is a camber ajustment of something like 3 degrees on the Cup. I read it somewhere on ere, but I dont remember for sure that it was 3degrees might of been 0.3 for all i know

 

[telford_mike]

Just lower it on Eibachs Rhys itll be ok. Are the shocks alright?

 

[matt4478]

Ya big girls blouse Rhys!

Theres nothing wrong with the standard setup if all the shocks are in good condition and the trackings straight... Ive certainly had no problems hustling round the track in mine - even overtook an old shaped Elise as it was getting out of shape round the Craner Curves at Donnington, and Im certainly no driving God! Maybe its just that youre used to the Williams. Or maybe you just need harnesses.

 

[rt172]

Seriously, I might not be able to beat a saxo, but ive owned the following French hatches and know good handling from not so good (and downright bad!). In order of handling capabilities it goes:

Williams

205 GTi 1.9

172 MK2

172 MK1

206 GTi

There is a corner in the Peaks that I can take at 70mph in the Williams. I was breaking into a sweat at 55mph in the MK1 172 (its a fast but sharp corner with challenging road cambers entering it off a straight going downhill and coming out uphill).

Theres nothing wrong with the shocks. Most corners are fine, fast country roads are fine. Its just a few corners that I could take fast in the MK2 and the Williams, I dare not take fast in the MK1.

Rhys

PS: Id like to emphasise that the gap between the 206 and the 172 MK1 is MASSIVE! The 206 handles like sh*te.

 

[viceroy]

Does it fee like the car is at the edge of its grip?

 

[Jas]

you might find the tracking is out - i had mine laser aligned at Elite (cost a few bucks tho) and it was massively better. Driving down a pot hole was what screwed it in the first place (buckled a wheel too). Handling on the standard suspension should be v. good, I had no probs on the trackdays I did with mine with std. suspension.

 

[rt172]

Quote: Originally posted by viceroy on 17 June 2003

Does it fee like the car is at the edge of its grip?

When? When pushing it as much as Id push the Williams, understeer creeps in. Eg: Im turning the wheel, but the car just wants to go straight ahead.

Dont get me wrong, its not a bad handling car at all. In fact the handling is good compared to most cars that Ive ever driven. Its just that it isnt as good as the MK2 172. Seeing as its pretty much the same set up, I just want to know how to go about making it identical in handling to the Cup (which i guess is like a MK2 but a bit better).

Rhys

 

[matt4478]

Fair enough mate, I certainly wasnt trying to suggest that the 172 Mk1 was a truly great handling hatch (which the Williams and 205GTi are IMHO), but when it came out its chassis was universally raved about in every review Ive seen. Personally, I find that it rolls too much which makes you think youre at the limit, but until youve got all 3 wheels howling (the 4th being in the air) then youve actually got a fair bit more grip to play with before getting intimate with a ditch. Itll go round most corners at ridiculous speed but only if its set-up nicely on entry - for example if I do a rapid high-speed direction change or if Ive been braking heavily and all the weights at the front, then as I turn in then things get er... interesting as the back end gets a life of its own! What tyres are you using - the F1s on mine have transformed it completely - into a great boaty pile of sh*te. Cant wait to get rid of them!. Just my opinion, of course...

Matt

 

[rt172]

Yeah, know what you mean Matt. The thing about the Williams that makes it the best is that it is totally adjustable in corners. My MK2 had more grip than the MK1, but I still had to pick my line and stick to it. Just point the Willy at a corner, chuck it round, and if youve gone in too fast, dab the breaks or back off, if youve gone in too tight, steer out of it....etc...etc....its just really adjustable.

Ive got the Michelins on that were the OE ones. Cant remember what theyre called. Im sure its more than just tyres. I know on here that as soon as you say one thing is better than the other, then people just assume that the "other" must be a heap of sh*t, but Ive explained why i think the MK1 doesnt corner as well as the other 2 172 models. Just want advice on how to go about making like the best handling 172 out there.

Rhys

 

[JonC]

Get some eibachs on them, get a set of Conti Sport contacts. Cups have a 3 degree increase in castor from standard MKII 172 and a wider track from different offset of Cup wheels, therefore not easy or cheap to reproduce that setup.

Eibachs has greatly reduced body roll and increased high speed and braking stability and overall grip. One of the best mods you can do for the money IMO.

 

[rt172]

How do I increase the castor angle and would spacers not change the wheel offset? How much of a wider track does the Cup have over a MK1 or 2?

 

[JonC]

Not sure about increasing castor angles, though if you do a search youll find something on this forum. The offets are 10mm-20mm, though I personally wouldnt use spacers unless you get longer wheel bolts. Do a search on eibach springs for 172s and Im sure youll only find favourable comments.

I think increasing castor angles only increases steering feel and responce (though Im sure someone will correct me) though the standard setup on the 172s is pretty good already.

 

[rt172]

Yup, I want that extra response and feel please! I bought some spacers from Halfords cos they were fairly cheap, but I havent fitted them because I wasnt sure if they were too much as Halfords "no one beats us on the number of parts we carry" dont sell ANY wheel bolts, let alone longer ones. Knobs!

Rhys

 

[Paul16V]

Mate, if u want it lowering it aint that hard. One of my mates would do it for you I bet.

 

[BenR]

hmmm......the SX GTs that they originally came on are ok, not great.....and squeel for england.

WHen i had my mk1 i found it dynamically more fun, it was twitchy.......quite a fair bit more thatn teh MK2 which softened up a bit and lent itself to the less handy driver. THe MK1 rolls ALOT, but it works well with lots of weight transfer....likes alot over the front.

Dont try emulate the cup settings, itll end up being a waste.

go to JJ172 post in extrior about 172s handling transformed and sign up for the geometry changes, its mainly a change in front/rear camber and castor. Castor affects the initial pitch in not the feel. Feel is nothing but a torque moment on teh steering, if you you placed the steering axix right in teh middle of the tyre centerline then you would have little to no feel. Decrease the offset and increase scrub radius and you get a llarger moment and more feel as the slip angle has more of an opposite effect on steering.....i.e. it tries to push it back giving more feel.

The cup has 10mm added to each side on the front and 5mm on the rear....so 20mm upfront wider track through offset changes, thus scrub radius and SAI offset.....which gives it that feel.......but go too far and it gets horrible....your on ET 42 already rather than 48 for the MK2s.......so i wouldnt bother.

The chassis is great, i find nothing wrong with it at all...apart form t being twitchy....which is nice.

 

[rt172]

Im not so keen on the twitchyness! Ive got to do something to the way it handles as Im just used to cornering faster in the Williams. I think Ill go with the tried and tested Eibchs first and see how I feel after that.

Cheers all...

Rhys

 

[paddymph]

dont mention it..... glad i could help

 

[JJ172]

See http://forum.cliosport.net/display_topic_threads.asp?ForumID=6&TopicID=37771&PagePosition=1http://forum.cliosport.net/display_topic_threads.asp?ForumID=6&TopicID=37771&PagePosition=1

 

[blaze]

Rhys,

everyone has forgotten the MK2 had stiffer anti roll bars fitted for a start. Your comments were taken on board by Renault LOL!!!!

Having had both (in the biblical sense) I can honestly say the MK2 does handle better on average (it doesnt shimmy so much under a hard forward thrust).

Will trust BenRs get out of jail free card though. Just not for a driving GOD. He must have a harness too!!!!

 

[BenR]

lost........drunk............huh?