MP3/CD Headunits

[emicen]

One for the ICE experts.

How good is the quality of music from CD players that handle MP3 format CDs? Nearly all my mp3s are 192 quality or at very least 128/164.

Can in car cd players handle windows media player format files since these compress the music even more than mp3? most walkman mp3/cd players can handle mpeg/mpg files.

The headunits im lookin at are Alpine CDE7860R, Kenwood KDC 3021A, Clarion DB328RB. Anyone have any experience of these units? Im only really looking at the Clarion cos thats the same brand as my OE headunit and it looks pretty cool in silver.

 

[Pysco]

I dont think most players can handle WMAs as well as MP3s, but as you said yourself these compress it more than MP3 does and therefore loose even more SQ than MP3. Of the HUs youve listed Id say go for the Alpine, it will sound a better than the other two, Alpine kit is a different league to most.

Do you think MP3s sound as good as CDs? Just curious as a lot of people seem to think they sound as good, where as if you hear both played on a half decent system the MP3 sounds lifeless in comparrison, I was gonna get a MP3 HU until I heard the difference, now Ive got an Alpine CDA7876RB, and it absolutly rocks!!!!

 

[emicen]

Most of mine are 164/192kbps quality so i reckon they sound pretty sweet.

128 and less and they sound quite crap. In all honesty i think 192+ are as good as CDs but the main factor is the cash. Ive got 15hrs music on my laptop and i aint paid a penny for it.

 

[cse]

i hate to say it, but most mp3s sound poor in comparison to orig cds in the car, thats burning mp3s to an audio cd btw.

the whole track usually sounds louder than a cd, so when u turn it up, the whole thing is louder, basser, like its all on the same level, with orig cds the bass gets punchier but everything else sounds the right level

dunno if that makes much sense actually just my opinion thou.

 

[coolspot007007]

ive got the new top of the range kenwood MP3/WMA player, sound quailty is good as long as your tracks are 160/192.

 

[Pysco]

I know exactly what your on about CSE, MP3 compressess the dynamics of the music, so the loud bts arnt loud and the quiet bits arnt quiet, its all roughly the same level. And theres a complete lack of seperation bwtween the instruments or the vocals, it just sounds so lifeless. When you hear a quality song played you shouldnt be able to sit still, MP3 just kills the music, though admitidly it depends a lot on how much into music you are, what kind of music you listern to and what stereo you got at home.

I myself am nuts about music and would give up my car anyday for it, I listern to well produced rock mostly, Aerosmith, Led Zeppelin, Iron Maiden, which doesnt help as this sort of music is very well recorded and produced so you can tell when the playback is crap, a lot of modern music seems to be recorded on fisher price gear, so it you cant really tell the difference on different formats and I own a Naim Audio system and so am used to listerning to music playback of a quality that should be illegal its so good.

 

[OutKa5t]

Because MP3 is a compressed format it does loose sound quality. 192 kbs is a good quality for MP3 and if you try and stick to it then you wont notice that much difference.

MP3s are much heavier on the Bass and thats one of the main problems.

If you are looking for a headunit that playe quality illegal files then look out for the WMP compatible headunits. Pricey though

 

[Colin_S]

First of all the KDC 3021A does not play either MP3s or WMA. I hade a Kenwood Z828 that played MP3s and i didnt really notise much differnece in sound quality, and they were 128 and my sound system is Polk Momo and Caliber Competion Pro stuff. You cant get much better stuff.

 

[Pysco]

Colin_S, what srta music you listerning to on MP3?? Makes a huge difference to the quality!

 

[cse]

SimonNOS has it right on, if u had a song on mp3, listened to it then put it on from an orig cd, ud notice the difference, no matter what the system, car or not imo. (although it does seem more noticable in the car)

but saying that, there will be better players that others etc .. and i prolly will look into it myself, for only reason that i doubt i have bought a cd in about 4 years im starting to buy some of my fav music for the car now

 

[andyrap]

WARNING - potentially boring post. Read on with caution....

Ive had an MP3 player in my car for over a year now, to start off with had the Kenny mp6090 and have just got the Alpine 7894.

For the record, the Alpine is a sweet HU and the SQ is fantastic. With MP3s, 192 seems to be the point where the difference to the original becomes negligible.

For your own MP3s, it also makes a difference in the encoder that you use. For example, I used Windows Media Player for ages to rip CDs because of the convenience and have recently switched to a program called CDex. This gives you loads of control over not just bit rate but the quality of compression and different encoders you can use. Definite difference in SQ. (LAME encoder considered best BTW).

MP3 compression works differently to the dynamic compression mentioned above. Dynamic compression is a process that flattens the range of a recording and is usually applied during recording and also by radio stations for various reasons. You immediately can lose an element of quality because the dynamics are restricted.

MP3 firstly uses mathematical algorithms to reduce the amount of data (lossless compression) and then can also reduce it even further by cancelling out certain parts of the waveform that we dont actually here. This is where I get lost as its very clever stuff! MP3 players can restore some of these with new generation stuff like MP3Pro.

Remember as well that Minidisc uses compression (ATRAC) which works on the same principal as MP3, and Minidisc is now widely regarded as a hi-fi alternative. The difference with MP3 is that you have control over the process with bit rates, etc. And of course can find the files more freely

MP3 will not replace CDs, nor was it designed to (same as MD). Ultimately if you use a decent encoder, at a reasonable (192+) bit rate, the difference you notice will be negligible and you will be smiling at how nice your system sounds, and how much you fit on a disc.

Andy

 

[Colin_S]

Honestly, i have listened for different sound qualities, and putting the original VD in and playing the MP3 you can hardly notise a difference at all. And all my MP3s are 128. I listen to Dance and Rock.

 

[Pysco]

Each to there own I guess, but I think the difference in SQ between MP3 and the origonal recording can be heard, agreed its less on 192kbit/s recordings and can be ignored, but like I said, Im NUTS about music, and listerning to music on a HiFi such as Naim really raises your expectations of everything else.

Out of interest what systems you guys got at home?

 

[andyrap]

Started off as a simple stereo and has gradually morphed into a home cinema set up (as these things do).

Arcam Alpha 8R and Alpha 8P bi-amping
Mission 774s
Yamaha DSP-A492 (I think) pro-logic processor driving
Mission 77c (matching centre)
Eltax bi-polar rears

Currently my main source is a Wharfedale DVD player with DD 5.1 (good) and DTS (phenomenal). I have had to delay getting another dedicated CD player for the real quality. Movies rock at the moment and the SQ from CDs is actually very impressive. It plays MP3s too which is another bonus

Naim is beautiful gear. Id personally love the Arcam DVD player. Hmm shiny.

 

[Pysco]

Nice system, I started off with a Cambridge Audio/Wharfdale setup, my current rig is:-

Marantz CD63MkII KI-Signature
Rega P2
Naim Audio Nait 3
Linn Kans

Sounds absolutly amazing with CD and even better with LPs, you just cant sit still, and Im only at the bottom of the Naims range

 

[andyrap]

Theres something still about listening to well recorded vinyl on a quality set up. Very nice mate.

The KI Signature is a fantastic player. A friend of mine has one with the same Missions as me being driven by a rotel power amp each. Sounds lovely.

Naim are mega bucks if I remember rightly? Havent been too into it for a while. Meridian was another brand that always used to impress. Serious kit.

 

[Pysco]

Naim is stupididly expensive, Meridian too, The Nait 3 is no longer in production being replaced with the Nait 5, I think theyre about £800 new. Naims top of the range kit, the 500 series is just about the best HiFi you can buy, Ive heard there top rig:-

CDSII, Supercap, NAC 522, NAC522 PSU SNAXO 3-6, Spercap, 3*NAP500, DBLs think its about £100,00 plus stands and cables. To say it sounds phenominal would be the undersatement of the millennium, like having the performance right there in front of you! Oh yeah and it can play to 130db, and thats 130db cleanly!!!

 

[andyrap]

Its a different league altogether.

Thing is, the majority of music produced nowadays is not recorded in a way that allows a system like that to take full advantage of it. Obviously the system will reproduce the recording exactly how it was mastered but most studios now produce knowing that most systems that play their stuff will be very modest.

Radio stations are the worst for this as they subsequently add loads of compression so it can play on MyFirstSony type stereos.

IMHO, the best produced commercial new music nowadays are the MTV unplugged series. Very well produced, as are Diana Kralls CDs if jazz is your thing. Also, I think that studio dance albums can be very high quality, or as good as a fully digital recording can be. e.g. Layo & Bushwacka (great tunes too).

What are your thoughts on this?

BTW, this has become a very interesting thread IMO!

 

[Pysco]

Your spot on in the fact that modern music doesnt seem to be mastered very well at all, most of the pop/rock music in the charts is just god awful, in terms of quality and production, Oasis are one of the worst for production quality believe it or not, I dont really listern to Jazz or Dance music so I cant really comment on them, one album I have bought realativly recently which is an absolutly blinding recording is Iron Maidens latest offereing Brave New World.

I mostly listern to older stuff like Led Zep, Alice Cooper, Guns N Roses, Aerosmith, etc. Obviosly a lot of this was recorded in the 60s/70s and so cant be expected to be as good as modern stuff, however Led Zeps recordings are all absolutly brilliant and that is a sign of Jimmy Pages all round musical talent. There are some true classic albums which a masterfully produced and contain some of the best music ever recorded, Trash - Alice Cooper, Appetite For Destruction - Guns N Roses and Led Zepppelin II, these albums really show up how bad the music industry in Britian has become, I only hope it turns around soon.