'92 172, Lotus Elise
Below is my version of events with Dan/Danlp6/Daniel Potter...
Most of you will probably already know of Dan and his dealings (splittergate etc) and will probably say it's all my fault and that I shouldn't have trusted him etc... But let me just say write this post as a warning to you all, as I knew him personally and didn't expect this
In november 07 I decided to convert my mk1 16v to a 172 engine. I found an engine on cliosport that had a knocking bottom end. Dan said that he could rebuild it for me. I went ahead and purchased the engine off of Joshydee, who was very helpful with the whole deal and I would not hesistate to recommend him!
A week later, Dan informed me that the engine had been delivered to his - there were a few discrepancies, but these were sorted with Josh very quicky and I think we were both satisfied with the deal. Dan then set about stripping the engine and even posted up a project thread on www.clio16valver.co.uk about the whole process. His communication was very good! It also turns out that in order to get the pistons out, the head had to come off - but again, Dan called me and discussed it all, including prices and I agreed (new headgasket can only be a good thing I figured).
Now is when the deal started to break down. The crank was apparently scored (as could be seen in some of the pictures he had) so we both agreed it should be sent off to be reground with new shell bearings. First of all, this took much longer than expected, but I was assured several times that he was 'picking it up tomorrow evening'. I didn't think too much of it, as delays did occur.
I didn't get any further contact from Dan. I had to call him every time to chase up everything from this point.
I was then told that the crank had come back from the machine shop, but they could not find/make/whatever the bearings and the Renault ones a) didn't exist for the F4R b) were back dated to november with 30-odd orders. Fine. Dan did apparently manage to sort it all out and sourced some shell bearings, but the cost came in at about £170 - which was more than double what was originally quoted "about £50-60". I took this again, as these things can happen!
Then all went quite. Turns out he could not complete the engine due to onsite work commitments in Bristol.
He sent me a PM on clio16valver about the costs for parts - he then required money in advance for all the parts. I was told that he was getting me Genuine Renault parts. I was a bit miffed at the price, but figured it'd be worth it in the long run. I confirmed these prices with a Renault Dealer myself.
I agreed again to send him the money (which I did, like I did for the regrind and for the graphogen etc...) and that he would get his labour costs when I got the engine, which was fair enough I thought? I'd been very good to him on the money front and he had no reason to doubt me sending him the money.
After weeks of no progress and him not returning calls/texts, I get an MMS of my engine, so he was actually working on it! great! This was on saturday 9th feb, so he's delayed it a long time already. I get told that it only needs the cambelt putting on and a few other little bits and that it would be sent for shipment during the week! At this point, getting tired of texting back and forth, I give him a call and discuss the whole thing. He seemed very chatty, even talking about his plans for his 172valver.
This is where the main breakdown comes...
I ask him to make sure he includes a folder of all my reciepts for this engine, as it's very important to me as it's effectily the start of my new service history and I've gone to the expense of getting Gen. Renault parts.
Dan informs me that he does not have my reciepts as he has had to send them off to the tax office. I know this to be wrong, but at this point I just agree, so that I can get my engine and get my car back up and running!
Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but no one sends their reciepts to the tax man. The only person you send reciepts to would be your accountant, for him to do your tax return. Also, when does the tax office *ever* require details on work done the previous month, you have up to 9 months to send in your return! so it's impossible to have to send the reciepts off. I'm starting to get worried here, as I've spent out over £400 to Dan on parts and don't have a single reciept to show for it!!
Monday comes, no word from Dan, so I get in contact - turns out the error was in my part, in that I forgot to PM him my address,
ops;. So I PM'd him my address on monday evening.
Nothing happens for a week - he claims that the payment didn't clear to the courier company so they couldn't collect it. (his mum told me that it was because the lorry could not get down their driveway...)
During the last few weeks, his phone has been out of order, meaning I can't talk to him. he's not online either, so no forum contact or msn etc.. and my texts aren't being answered.
I posted a message on cliosport, asking if anyone has contact with him and suddenly I get a text from him! I arranged to collect it myself. He told me I could collect it whenever, as long as I let him know when. I told him that I would collect it tonight (monday)
I went and got myself an engine crane and was just about to set off for somerset. he then contacts me to say that he isnt around that evening and no one is home so I couldn't go collect it that evening. We arrange for me to collect it the following evening at 7:30pm. I sent him several texts confirming that I was still going to pick the engine up
We arrived at his house at about 7:30pm on Tuesday, like he'd arranged - only thing was, he wasn't there! His mum and sister were there and let me in. They then went to the trouble of calling a ring of friends to eventually get hold of him (at the GF's).
About 20 minutes later he pitches up (with his gf), looking very sorry for himself, not the usual cheery Dan that I know!
He then did the talk about how I owe him his labour costs before he would give the engine over. I said that's fine - I've had absolutely no issues paying you several hundred pounds until now, but before I complete the deal, I need to see some invoices/reciepts for all the money I've spent.
Once again he started chatting about the tax man having all his reciepts. He said he might have a couple left in his room (real thorough there), but alas his room was too messy for him to find them. The next door neighbour who invited herself into the discussion kept piping up about how she has to send her reciepts off... great, but who asked you for your incorrect input?
He then said I either pay him the full amount or the engine goes back in the barn and he goes off to Glastonbury. I asked if there was a need to threaten me in such a way, to which there was no answer.
We finally agree on me giving him half the labour, with the rest payable when the reciepts materialise.
I go down the road to sainsburys and draw my money and return (10 mile trip?). In that time he's gone and got the engine and left it sitting on the end of his driveway and has once again dissappeared, leaving his mum and sister to deal with the situation (his sister even helped us lift it, good going Dan, what an amazing brother and son you are).
all the manifolds and ancillaries are in a box which I also loaded in to the car. At this point I notice there are no bolts at all, which is kinda annoying when you're trying to rebuild an engine. The clutch is missing too
So basically we're standing on his driveway arguing about my missing bolts. When they started shouting that my attitude stinks (bearing in mind I didn't raise my voice once).
I'm explaining to his mother, all of Dans dealings and how he has such a foul reputation on the forums but that I've always stuck up for him - really unfair to say that, considering all that I've done for him. I've sorted out many of his deals and always defended him and his work! I've known Dan for 2 years now, as he used to work at Carlton Garage where I took my clio for its daily problem solving! He's helped out a lot on the forums and has also had a few successful deals - but also many bad dealings, as can be shown by just how many forums he's banned on now!
The neighbours son has turned up at this point and has listened to how I've defended Dan. He tells me and Laine to 'f**k off now'. He was bigger than me and we were all standing next to my car (having just loaded the engine in)... I didn't fancy anything escalating and we were getting nowhere, so we left.
Wonderful dealings, someone who I though was a friend and had some respect for - and I end up coming away from the deal with no proof of any work done or reciepts etc, missing parts and being intimidated and threatened at the same time! All this and Dan was too much of a coward to deal with me himself. It's not like im intimidating or agressive, as anyone who knows me can vouch! It shook me up!
Dan has not even once apologised for anything or even taken the time to say "look, there is a miss understanding here, lets try to sort it out"
The long and short of it is that I've paid Dan about £450 now (as well as my petrol to collect the thing and buying it in the first place) and have no proof as to whats been done to the engine at all. He's made up some excuse which is clearly false as to where the reciepts are - I'm not sure if he's skimmed money off the parts prices or what...
On posting this on other forums, a lot of hatred come out against him, seem's he's done it to many people! Think he's banned from most Clio forums now :S
Think that all makes sense, let me know if anything needs clarifying.
sorry for the long post
Most of you will probably already know of Dan and his dealings (splittergate etc) and will probably say it's all my fault and that I shouldn't have trusted him etc... But let me just say write this post as a warning to you all, as I knew him personally and didn't expect this
In november 07 I decided to convert my mk1 16v to a 172 engine. I found an engine on cliosport that had a knocking bottom end. Dan said that he could rebuild it for me. I went ahead and purchased the engine off of Joshydee, who was very helpful with the whole deal and I would not hesistate to recommend him!
A week later, Dan informed me that the engine had been delivered to his - there were a few discrepancies, but these were sorted with Josh very quicky and I think we were both satisfied with the deal. Dan then set about stripping the engine and even posted up a project thread on www.clio16valver.co.uk about the whole process. His communication was very good! It also turns out that in order to get the pistons out, the head had to come off - but again, Dan called me and discussed it all, including prices and I agreed (new headgasket can only be a good thing I figured).
Now is when the deal started to break down. The crank was apparently scored (as could be seen in some of the pictures he had) so we both agreed it should be sent off to be reground with new shell bearings. First of all, this took much longer than expected, but I was assured several times that he was 'picking it up tomorrow evening'. I didn't think too much of it, as delays did occur.
I didn't get any further contact from Dan. I had to call him every time to chase up everything from this point.
I was then told that the crank had come back from the machine shop, but they could not find/make/whatever the bearings and the Renault ones a) didn't exist for the F4R b) were back dated to november with 30-odd orders. Fine. Dan did apparently manage to sort it all out and sourced some shell bearings, but the cost came in at about £170 - which was more than double what was originally quoted "about £50-60". I took this again, as these things can happen!
Then all went quite. Turns out he could not complete the engine due to onsite work commitments in Bristol.
He sent me a PM on clio16valver about the costs for parts - he then required money in advance for all the parts. I was told that he was getting me Genuine Renault parts. I was a bit miffed at the price, but figured it'd be worth it in the long run. I confirmed these prices with a Renault Dealer myself.
I agreed again to send him the money (which I did, like I did for the regrind and for the graphogen etc...) and that he would get his labour costs when I got the engine, which was fair enough I thought? I'd been very good to him on the money front and he had no reason to doubt me sending him the money.
After weeks of no progress and him not returning calls/texts, I get an MMS of my engine, so he was actually working on it! great! This was on saturday 9th feb, so he's delayed it a long time already. I get told that it only needs the cambelt putting on and a few other little bits and that it would be sent for shipment during the week! At this point, getting tired of texting back and forth, I give him a call and discuss the whole thing. He seemed very chatty, even talking about his plans for his 172valver.
This is where the main breakdown comes...
I ask him to make sure he includes a folder of all my reciepts for this engine, as it's very important to me as it's effectily the start of my new service history and I've gone to the expense of getting Gen. Renault parts.
Dan informs me that he does not have my reciepts as he has had to send them off to the tax office. I know this to be wrong, but at this point I just agree, so that I can get my engine and get my car back up and running!
Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but no one sends their reciepts to the tax man. The only person you send reciepts to would be your accountant, for him to do your tax return. Also, when does the tax office *ever* require details on work done the previous month, you have up to 9 months to send in your return! so it's impossible to have to send the reciepts off. I'm starting to get worried here, as I've spent out over £400 to Dan on parts and don't have a single reciept to show for it!!
Monday comes, no word from Dan, so I get in contact - turns out the error was in my part, in that I forgot to PM him my address,
ops;. So I PM'd him my address on monday evening.Nothing happens for a week - he claims that the payment didn't clear to the courier company so they couldn't collect it. (his mum told me that it was because the lorry could not get down their driveway...)
During the last few weeks, his phone has been out of order, meaning I can't talk to him. he's not online either, so no forum contact or msn etc.. and my texts aren't being answered.
I posted a message on cliosport, asking if anyone has contact with him and suddenly I get a text from him! I arranged to collect it myself. He told me I could collect it whenever, as long as I let him know when. I told him that I would collect it tonight (monday)
I went and got myself an engine crane and was just about to set off for somerset. he then contacts me to say that he isnt around that evening and no one is home so I couldn't go collect it that evening. We arrange for me to collect it the following evening at 7:30pm. I sent him several texts confirming that I was still going to pick the engine up
We arrived at his house at about 7:30pm on Tuesday, like he'd arranged - only thing was, he wasn't there! His mum and sister were there and let me in. They then went to the trouble of calling a ring of friends to eventually get hold of him (at the GF's).
About 20 minutes later he pitches up (with his gf), looking very sorry for himself, not the usual cheery Dan that I know!
He then did the talk about how I owe him his labour costs before he would give the engine over. I said that's fine - I've had absolutely no issues paying you several hundred pounds until now, but before I complete the deal, I need to see some invoices/reciepts for all the money I've spent.
Once again he started chatting about the tax man having all his reciepts. He said he might have a couple left in his room (real thorough there), but alas his room was too messy for him to find them. The next door neighbour who invited herself into the discussion kept piping up about how she has to send her reciepts off... great, but who asked you for your incorrect input?
He then said I either pay him the full amount or the engine goes back in the barn and he goes off to Glastonbury. I asked if there was a need to threaten me in such a way, to which there was no answer.
We finally agree on me giving him half the labour, with the rest payable when the reciepts materialise.
I go down the road to sainsburys and draw my money and return (10 mile trip?). In that time he's gone and got the engine and left it sitting on the end of his driveway and has once again dissappeared, leaving his mum and sister to deal with the situation (his sister even helped us lift it, good going Dan, what an amazing brother and son you are).
all the manifolds and ancillaries are in a box which I also loaded in to the car. At this point I notice there are no bolts at all, which is kinda annoying when you're trying to rebuild an engine. The clutch is missing too
So basically we're standing on his driveway arguing about my missing bolts. When they started shouting that my attitude stinks (bearing in mind I didn't raise my voice once).
I'm explaining to his mother, all of Dans dealings and how he has such a foul reputation on the forums but that I've always stuck up for him - really unfair to say that, considering all that I've done for him. I've sorted out many of his deals and always defended him and his work! I've known Dan for 2 years now, as he used to work at Carlton Garage where I took my clio for its daily problem solving! He's helped out a lot on the forums and has also had a few successful deals - but also many bad dealings, as can be shown by just how many forums he's banned on now!
The neighbours son has turned up at this point and has listened to how I've defended Dan. He tells me and Laine to 'f**k off now'. He was bigger than me and we were all standing next to my car (having just loaded the engine in)... I didn't fancy anything escalating and we were getting nowhere, so we left.
Wonderful dealings, someone who I though was a friend and had some respect for - and I end up coming away from the deal with no proof of any work done or reciepts etc, missing parts and being intimidated and threatened at the same time! All this and Dan was too much of a coward to deal with me himself. It's not like im intimidating or agressive, as anyone who knows me can vouch! It shook me up!
Dan has not even once apologised for anything or even taken the time to say "look, there is a miss understanding here, lets try to sort it out"
The long and short of it is that I've paid Dan about £450 now (as well as my petrol to collect the thing and buying it in the first place) and have no proof as to whats been done to the engine at all. He's made up some excuse which is clearly false as to where the reciepts are - I'm not sure if he's skimmed money off the parts prices or what...
On posting this on other forums, a lot of hatred come out against him, seem's he's done it to many people! Think he's banned from most Clio forums now :S
Think that all makes sense, let me know if anything needs clarifying.
sorry for the long post
Last edited:
