New member considering Clio as a track car

[Hugh_]

Hello to all. I'm considering getting a Clio as a track day car and keep my 996 for the road, so thought I'd sign up here for some insight into Clios on track and possibly cars available for sale.

In the interim, here's a bit about the 996, it's a 1999 3.4l Carrera, manual, coupe; it’s a relatively basic early car, so cable throttle, no traction control, sport suspension kit (M030), and later 997 Carrera iii wheels (same sizes but slightly different offsets). It has a few subtle modifications to make it a bit more focused: Quaife ATB limited slip diff, equal length manifolds and CarGraphic ETR silencers, semi solid engine mounts (RSS), short throw shifter, GT3 centre console delete, 997 sport hard back drivers seat sits much lower and is more supportive, and 5mm Spacers on the front (to correct the offset from 997 wheels).

 

[White16valver]

Hello to all. I'm considering getting a Clio as a track day car and keep my 996 for the road, so thought I'd sign up here for some insight into Clios on track and possibly cars available for sale.

In the interim, here's a bit about the 996, it's a 1999 3.4l Carrera, manual, coupe; it’s a relatively basic early car, so cable throttle, no traction control, sport suspension kit (M030), and later 997 Carrera iii wheels (same sizes but slightly different offsets). It has a few subtle modifications to make it a bit more focused: Quaife ATB limited slip diff, equal length manifolds and CarGraphic ETR silencers, semi solid engine mounts (RSS), short throw shifter, GT3 centre console delete, 997 sport hard back drivers seat sits much lower and is more supportive, and 5mm Spacers on the front (to correct the offset from 997 wheels).

View attachment 1570850

Nice nice nice

That's a proper drivers' spec you have put together!


Do you have a budget in mind for a Clio track car, or a particular use? i.e. full-on stripped and caged, or just stripped and some seat/brake/power upgrades?

Do you want something older (e.g. a 172) or something newer?

 

[Hugh_]

I’m not sure, that’s what I’m here for really.

I don’t know whether these cars suffer from flex in the rear of the shell and whether a half cage makes a noticeable difference on track, or how the standard suspension copes. Any help you can give or pointers to useful threads and articles would be appreciated

Gut feel says probably stripped but the dash and all electrics except the radio and speakers left insitu to avoid electrical gremlins. Half cage, bucket seat and harness, updated pads, fluid and lines, and standard suspension (poly-bushes ok) as a starting point.
Again powerwise I’d rather a 182 but I would chose a 172 with untouched electrics vs a 182 with butchered wiring - track days not being spoilt by electrics gremlins has to be worth more than 10hp.

Part of the problem with using the 911 on track is that every track day is £250 for insurance on top of the cost of the day, plus expensive consumables.

I will probably get a trailer and tow the Clio.

Ideally £3-4k for the car, but I need to work out what I want and common problems to look for evidence of being done. I still need to find somewhere to keep the car and the first 6months of 2022 are pretty busy so I’m not in any rush.

 

[Bankrupt_drunk]

Having driven 172s and 182s the extra 10 bhp is hard to spot. So I'd just buy the one in the best condition, with the best history you can find.
Personally I'd go for some good tyres, pads, and all new fluids and then have a track day as a shakedown or test before going all out on cages and stripping the interior. I've not noticed much chassis flex, but I'm not the fastest by a long way. I've got 172 cup suspension on mine and it's not the limiting factor on track. Standard brakes with good pads and discs also work well on a circuit.
Common problems: Crunchy gearboxes (especially 3rd), rust on sills due to poor jacking technique, around fuel filler and inside rear panels. They're also all at an age where various steering/suspension components and rubber bits will need replacing.

 

[Mr Underhill]

I’d go for a proper dedicated set up as they’re pretty good standard on circuit but you’ll soon find yourself over driving it as the more track orientated Clio’s go past you.

Happy to send you info on mine, not for sale by the way, but I’ve got a couple of road going 182’s and a dedicated 182 purely for trackdays. Used lots of different set ups so can advise

 

[gez 172]

I have to be honest...with the spec on the Porka you have, I’d be using that. £250 insurance isn’t too bad when you consider you’ll be 5-6k into the Clio + trailer etc.
I’d enjoy the Porsche with that dedicated set up you’ve gone for.

 

[Mr Underhill]

I have to be honest...with the spec on the Porka you have, I’d be using that. £250 insurance isn’t too bad when you consider you’ll be 5-6k into the Clio + trailer etc.
I’d enjoy the Porsche with that dedicated set up you’ve gone for.

I think I’d rather put a 5-6k Clio into the barriers than that beauty. Plus a properly set up Clio 182 in the right hands will more than hold its own on a circuit.

 

[Greeny.]

Personally I would consider an EP3 over a 1*2 if I was to start again now, either that or a 200 if I wanted to keep it Renault.

 

[Hugh_]

Using the 996 on track more is an option, I’ve done Brands Hatch Indy and Snetterton 300 in it this year.

I probably need to spent £2-2.5k to get it better track prepped including baffled sump, track focus pads, new braided lines, and track tyres.

I need sleep so will reply better tomorrow.

 

[Hugh_]

I think I’d rather put a 5-6k Clio into the barriers than that beauty. Plus a properly set up Clio 182 in the right hands will more than hold its own on a circuit.

Exactly this, I’ve spent a fortune on sorting niggly age related issue on the Porsche that I’d never get back from the insurance company.
At Brands I suffered from understeer through Clearways which seems to have been at least partially resolved with the spacers on the front, and at Snetterton I was struggling for confidence in the brakes. But it is a fantastic road car, so my thoughts were to keep it for that. The Clio or similar will also let me introduce my brother to track days.

Personally I would consider an EP3 over a 1*2 if I was to start again now, either that or a 200 if I wanted to keep it Renault.

I’d be interested to hear what you think the pros and cons of each are. I’ve never driven a CTR.

 

[Mr Underhill]

Using the 996 on track more is an option, I’ve done Brands Hatch Indy and Snetterton 300 in it this year.

I probably need to spent £2-2.5k to get it better track prepped including baffled sump, track focus pads, new braided lines, and track tyres

For that kind of budget I’d just do what was suggested above and take a standard car, do the belts £600 ish, stick some decent track tyres on like AD08Rs, NSR etc..PBS Pads and put it on circuit then go from there. Baffled sump won’t be necessary.

Then if you get the bug, start buying better suspension, strip it out, half or full cage or and so on.

Many on here have built dedicated race cars for trackdays, myself included, as I don’t believe there’s any other way to do it if you want to get the best out of them. You never know if you’re going to enjoy it or not, hence buy a standard car then slowly improve it. But I can guarantee you’ll have spent twice your initial budget once you realise the difference between a race prepared Clio and a half road/track focused car.

Before I built mine I took advice from people who race them and then built to a particular spec. Cost me around £3,000 initially plus car, then have developed it over the years with quaife diff, roll centre correction kit, better tyres, brakes etc...

 

[Mr Underhill]

Have a look on K-Tec Racing website at the 750 MC 182 championship regs. Some good information in there on what you’ll need to do to build a decent circuit car. Trackday Trophy website has similar information as I’m sure there’s many others.

 

[JimF]

Another thing to bear in mind is on the older 172 & 182 models is that some parts are starting to get hard to find, and are no longer made.
Not the end of the world, but something to bear in mind. I love my 172 to bits. Started off as a totally standard car and upgraded bits when I felt they were holding me back.
In addition to what others have said, a set of 15" wheels with good rubber, new engine mounts with Powerflex insert on the upper mount, camber bolts and solid PMS top mounts made a great difference.

 

[loggyboy]

Personally I would consider an EP3 over a 1*2 if I was to start again now, either that or a 200 if I wanted to keep it Renault.

LEAVE
NOW

 

[Hugh_]

Thanks all, very helpful. I will spend some time researching over Christmas.

 

[Martin_172]

I think your reading too much into the "electrical gremlins" that people who have never owned one seem to talk about. a MK2 Clio is of the age where its basic enough there isn't really any serious electronics, it doesn't have modules everywhere etc - There isn't really any electrical issues to worry about.

Personally, it depends on your budget for a track car, a 172/182 makes a great track car as its capable enough out the box to have fun and plenty parts are available if you want to get more serious, however they are starting to get pricey, gone are the days of £1000 172's.

A 197/200 is hugely capable out of the box and imo makes the better track car, cost now seems comparable to a 172/182 for purchase BUT the maintenance costs are much higher and they have common issues that are pricey (exhaust flexi, gearbox synchro's, front hubs, exhaust flat spots to worry about) that for me takes away from the cheap fun of a track car.

my 2p worth on the EP3 is, as much as the engine and box are great, the steering is terrible, in fact coming from a Porsche it will be unacceptable imo - id do some serious research before considering that route.

 

[imprezaworks]

Had loads of clios with no electrical issues. As said they are no where near as electrically daft as more modern cars.

I found my 54 ep3 fine ref steering tbf 🤔

 

[Mr Underhill]

I think your reading too much into the "electrical gremlins" that people who have never owned one seem to talk about. a MK2 Clio is of the age where its basic enough there isn't really any serious electronics, it doesn't have modules everywhere etc - There isn't really any electrical issues to worry about.

Personally, it depends on your budget for a track car, a 172/182 makes a great track car as its capable enough out the box to have fun and plenty parts are available if you want to get more serious, however they are starting to get pricey, gone are the days of £1000 172's.

A 197/200 is hugely capable out of the box and imo makes the better track car, cost now seems comparable to a 172/182 for purchase BUT the maintenance costs are much higher and they have common issues that are pricey (exhaust flexi, gearbox synchro's, front hubs, exhaust flat spots to worry about) that for me takes away from the cheap fun of a track car.

my 2p worth on the EP3 is, as much as the engine and box are great, the steering is terrible, in fact coming from a Porsche it will be unacceptable imo - id do some serious research before considering that route.

My son had an EP3 and every time I drove it I commented on the steering. It reminded me of my Kia Pro_Ceed GT which had electric PAS and was fine on the roads, but on circuit felt vague - like steering a boat. And every time I looked in the rear view mirror there seemed to be a Clio sitting on my arse. It’s why I bought a 182 and built a track car. One of the best small hatches ever built.

 

[Martin_172]

Had loads of clios with no electrical issues. As said they are no where near as electrically daft as more modern cars.

I found my 54 ep3 fine ref steering tbf 🤔

It's weird there seems to be 2 camps with regards to the steering. We had a JDM one in stock at work and I took it out as I heard they were night and day with the hydraulic setup and although slightly better it was still vague to me.

I think people probably use different senses to determine what a cars doing under them and if your used to using steering feel, the minute you jump in somthing without it you feel out of your comfort zone - I was like this with my TT 225 - But a few weeks in I was used to the grip level and suddenly didn't worry about the steering, but the minute I jump back in a Clio it just feels amazing again

 

[imprezaworks]

Had mine 6 months and missed the clio. Rated the ep3 though.