Newbie 1.2 16v stalling

[thecaptaincolonel]

Good morning all,

mate of mine pointed me towards this site and was having a puroose last night. Much against my better judgement dare I say my misses wanted a Clio for a while so sold her Polo and got a 1.2 16V 2001 Clio Dynamique. Car is all OK, usual squeek from the sunroof which I have sorted (lift out the glass, where the glass touches the metal clip that holds the roof in place / pushes against it the little pad of velcro has come off - so reglued it and its been fine now for the last 3 weeks, so touch wood. Oh and it is also worth lubing the seal with a tab of silicon grease as this also helped).

Anyway, the car keeps cutting out without warning. It is fine on idle, idles at a steady 500-600 rpm, it pulls away OK, there is no sign of lumpy throttle etc. Just once warm (TBC but it has not stalled when cold but that may be a red herring), when she pulls up at the lights or a r'bout and goes to pull away she inds out it has stalled - no warning, no erratic behaviour - just dead!. I cant see anything behind it and was thinking if it is either TDC sensor, Coil packs or other, but I dont know how to test these, or if they are common faults.

Is there anyone here that can help? It is the D4F engine with sub 50K miles and has had a new cam belt, full service, spark plugs are good - so must say am a little lost as to the problem?

Any help or advise would be warmly welcomed.

PS - there are no fault codes stored, I have checked with a scanner and nothing there

 

[thecaptaincolonel]

Hi again,

sorry when I was looking last night I couldnt see any other threads on this subject as I was not able to search until I registered - I see that there are a few threads on this subject so appologies for posting again.

Any ideas or closures from people whom had this problem before?

 

[DougClio16v]

Are you sure she isn't just a crap driver?

Mine is the same car as hers, but on an 04 plate and has done 52k miles now and never cut out on me unless I've c0cked up.. Which in my experience has only happened once.

PS. Cambelt change should be done on the 72k service.

 

[thecaptaincolonel]

Cheers for the reply, it has done it to me and there is defo a problem. It just stops, no warning, no stuttering, just silence - very odd I know but seems to be quite common on Renaults from what I have read.

Cam belt is 72K or 5 years, and as it is 5 years old its done. Plus only took 1.5hrs to do, belt set inc pulley was £65 and got a good rate from my friends garage.

I am thinking its the TDC sensor but will check codes again tonight to see if its picked anything up.

 

[DougClio16v]

Im fresh out of ideas. Possibly check the ECU and/ or wiring looms.

 

[Hutchie]

the engine wiring loom on the 1.2 16v engine is a very common fault, baisically just rubbish, we have replaced 3 this year i think and we are a very small garage, but the just silence has baffled me sorry

 

[edde]

Clean the throttle body.

Check map sensor.

 

[JAY172]

500rpm is a low idle speed to start with. try the above inc computer connections

 

[el_grimley]

I've got an R reg 1.2 and its having exactly the same problem. Mine has cut out out in 3rd doing 20, 4th doing about 40 and in 5th doing 70ish, so there doesn't seem to be a rpm that does it. When the engine cuts out, it does sound like you've just turned it off. The stereo also acts as if its been switched off, although the lights remain on (although i'm not sure if they flicker as it cuts out.)

hello everyone first post btw.

 

[thecaptaincolonel]

Thank all, I will be checking the loom and connections again. With regards to the El Grimley, I will put money ont he fact that your problem (due to the fact it cuts out at speed) is the TDC sensor, it is common and easy to replace. My problem is it only occurs at idle, and cannnot be induced so will check the loom etc.

 

[R3OBC]

I had the old problems of the wiring loom rubbing away behind the engine on my 1.2 16v's............. worth checking it, but if its not that, then that is as far as my problems went with mine, so i cant say much more

 

[thecaptaincolonel]

right I have cleaned the throttle bodies, air box, plugs, etc. Still keeps stalling. All thats left is the TDC sensor. But it does only idle at 550 or there abouts - think it should be around 750 +- 50 rpm, can anyone advise?

If so how do you get the idle speed up again?

 

[simb06]

Although tdc sensors failing on 1.2 16v clios are common

your fault is probably due to the wiring loom rubbed through on the security box at the back, in which case thats a good few hundred quid for the loom!

and if you say youve cleaned the throttle body the next step would be a map sensor which are about 90quid from renault!

 

[thecaptaincolonel]

thanks for the reply, the loom goes right around the eninge bay but would the wires rubbing be a visible external issue or internal? Where abouts is this problem likely to occur on the loom? I will look for parts like MAP sensor in some breaskers and see whats around but want to check the loom first. Any pointers will be helpful.
thanks

 

[Dj Rpm]

The area of concern is usually where the ECU bracket/cover rests on the loom. It is a small black metal cover, about 2x2inches right at the back.

1/2 Clio's you will find this cover will just slide off, as the security device on them is poor. If it lifts off check where it rests on the loom. If the cover is firmly in place, get a small rivett a mirror and a torch and spin the wheel 'upwards' until cover is lose. It is a pain...

It doesn't sound like a TDC. They most commonly will give you trouble when cranking. Also, a re-program might be well over-due.

Hope this helps, Ian

 

[thecaptaincolonel]

dj, thanks for the reply.

I will check out the ECU cover later when I get the car back off the missis and let you know how I get on.

When you speak about a reprogram, what is involved and how is it done - like a software update from Renault?

 

[wickedbitch]

we had a 172 sport in doing the same the other week, the woman just stuck a note on her back window saying "CUTTING OUT WITHOUT WARNING" !!!!! Anyway her hubby brought it in and we fixed it but i cant remember what it was!!!(having a blonde day) but will ask adam our renault specialist when hes finished the job hes on at the mo

 

[wickedbitch]

think it was coil pack, going by his invoice but will get adam to verify shortly

 

[thecaptaincolonel]

thats good if you can let me know thanks. But cant see how a coil pack would casue the problem and only on idle - doesnt stall or hesitiate during any of the other revs.

Out of interest - how much is a coil pack?

 

[Dj Rpm]

Doubtful it would be the coil-pack.

A re-prog is carried out by Renault. It updates parameter limits and other tolerences. Try the loom wear first...Just hope for yoursake the cover is already loose!!

Ian

 

[Dj Rpm]

How did you get on with this colonel?

 

[thecaptaincolonel]

Hi there DJ, thanks for your interest, still got no where (as a point of interest, if anyone needs a TDC sensor DONT GO TO RENAULT - they will sell you a piece of loom £22 and the sensor £21 plus VAT which then needs soldering togther and joining - if you go to Euro Car Parts or GS&F the TDC sensors they sell are as per the ones on the car - plug and play and only cost £9 and are the same model numbers that Renault use but just clip in place - 2 mins job) so as it was so cheap I replaced it! But made no difference.

The engine only stalls when hot - i.e normal operating temp and does not do it when cold. It is only when braking to a hault and you put the clucth down that it stops (no juddering, just all the lights come on the dash and the engine is dead - restarts everytime no problems this leads me to think ENGINE IDLE. There are no obviuosu vaccum leaks and the MAP sensor is good as the coil pack.

I am thinking temp sensor if they co-odinate the ECU (idle speed) with tempurature???

I cant see this black box at the back of the inlet manifold, I can see the two throttle / ECU connector blocks but no cover other than 2-4 screws holding the ECU in place - can anyone post a picture here of a 1.2 16v ECU in situ?

Other than that I have drawn a BIG FAT BLANK - rechecked the car for fault codes, which there are none. I have contaced Renault to see if they can advise on whether the ECU can be played with elctronically to incrase the idle speed but have yet to here anything back - what else could possibly decrease engine RPM when at normal temp? Trying to find what modules and sensors the ECU uses to determine idle speed.

 

[edde]

if you go to Euro Car Parts or GS&F the TDC sensors they sell are as per the ones on the car - plug and play and only cost £9 and are the same model numbers that Renault use but just clip in place - 2 mins job) so as it was so cheap I replaced it! But made no difference.

The engine only stalls when hot - i.e normal operating temp and does not do it when cold. It is only when braking to a hault and you put the clucth down that it stops (no juddering, just all the lights come on the dash and the engine is dead - restarts everytime no problems this leads me to think ENGINE IDLE. There are no obviuosu vaccum leaks and the MAP sensor is good as the coil pack.

I am thinking temp sensor if they co-odinate the ECU (idle speed) with tempurature???

Yep check that and the throttle body for dirt then map sensor.

As for the wiring its not the sme part is it then if the plugs in a different place.

 

[thecaptaincolonel]

if you go to Euro Car Parts or GS&F the TDC sensors they sell are as per the ones on the car - plug and play and only cost £9 and are the same model numbers that Renault use but just clip in place - 2 mins job) so as it was so cheap I replaced it! But made no difference.

The engine only stalls when hot - i.e normal operating temp and does not do it when cold. It is only when braking to a hault and you put the clucth down that it stops (no juddering, just all the lights come on the dash and the engine is dead - restarts everytime no problems this leads me to think ENGINE IDLE. There are no obviuosu vaccum leaks and the MAP sensor is good as the coil pack.

I am thinking temp sensor if they co-odinate the ECU (idle speed) with tempurature???

Yep check that and the throttle body for dirt then map sensor.

As for the wiring its not the sme part is it then if the plugs in a different place.

new MAP sensor, cleaned the throttle bodies.

The TDC sensor fro ECP or GSF is the same part as the Renault standard one fitted on the car, for whatever reason Renault supply a TDC sensor that needs to be wried into the loom rather than just plug in as it should and as the one fitted the Clio does, so the aftermarket is the same unit as fitted from factory but the Renault one is not - so better to cut the loom, solder in new loom and fit a TDC sensor or just unclip the old one and fit a new one in 30 secs - hmm I know what I have done and it isnt cutting looms as Renault want me to!. So dont quite see what your comment was there.

 

[Sash]

the loom is a modified part!
GSF etc are prob still using old stock

 

[thecaptaincolonel]

thanks for that, either way it is a better part to fit both in time, hassle and money. But it is not the problem with my car, so Coil, TDC and MAP sensors are all good so now need to find the stalling problem and resolve it.

 

[Rob]

I had the exact same thing, was just a dirty tdc senor, give it a try, either a clean or a new one