Newbie in the market for a hot hatch

[Si-87]

* WARNING THIS THREAD MAKES FOR A LONG READ *

Hi all,

My name is Simon, I'm 21 years old and I live in Reading. Although I don't currently own a Clio, I have done in the past and I'm currently looking at getting another one soon.

I've just spent the last 10 minutes writing an autobiography on my car history and then realised that it was mainly me rambling on about Fiats so rather than boring you all to death I decided to delete it and start again

So instead I'll just give you a quick run down on my cars past and present:

'91 Clio RT 1.4 3dr in Black
First car, gave me a year of (expensive) motoring before being sold for parts after failing the MOT with unjustifiable repair bills

'04 Fiat Punto 1.2 3dr in Silver
Bought as a cheap to run replacement for the Clio but never had the power to pull the skin off a rice puddling, eventually went to my mum as a run around

'99 Fiat Bravo HGT 2.0 3dr in Black
My first taste of power (only 154bhp but it was a start). Fair bit of poke and capable in the bends but never really excited me. Spent the last 3 months of ownership in a Fiat garage while they tried to repair many faults.

'98 Fiat Punto GT3 1.4 Turbo in Yellow
Cracking fun and handled well (for a Fiat) but highly tempromental. 3 weeks after buying it I spent another 3 weeks rebuilding the engine on my driveway in the depths of winter after a head gasket failure. Eventually sold in favour of a diesel (for mileage munching).

'07 Fiat Grande Punto Sporting M-Jet 1.9 Turbo Diesel in Black
My current car which as stated above was bought due to an impending mileage increase (was set to average 25k+ miles/year). I've had this car for nearly a year now, never really enjoyed driving it and now that my annual mileage has dropped back down to circa 12k miles/year I can finally justify going back to a petrol.

Sorry about the long introduction (good thing I shortened it), so onto why I'm here:

I am looking for a petrol hatchback, after testdriving some of the 'warm hatch' list (Fiat Panda 100HP, Suzuki Swift, Ford Fiesta ST) I have come to the conclusion that this just wont do, I need a step up in performance and handling compared to anything that I have previously owned.

My requirements at the start of this search were:
- Budget of circa £7k (sale of current car +/- input from my savings)
- No older than 2002
- No higher than 60k miles on the clock
- No larger than hatchback
- 0-60 time sub 8 seconds
- Handling to rival most daily drivers on UK roads
- The ability to crack 35mpg if driven sensibly (I still have to use it daily)
- Servicing costs within reason (i.e. circa £150 Minor and £300 major)
- Tax costs no higher than circa £200/year negotiable)
- Insurance group no higher than 16/17 (based more on individual insurance quotes)

I think that was pretty much everything. The list that intial looked something like this:

Fiat Panda 100HP
Suzuki Swift Sport
Ford Fiesta ST
Ford Focus ST170
Vauxhall Astra GSi
Audi TT (180)
Honda Integra Type R DC2 UKDM
Honda Civic Type R EK9 & EP3
RenaultSport Clio 172/182/Cup/Trophy
Mini Cooper S Gen1 S'Charged

Soon looked more like this:

Honda Civic Type R EP3
RenaultSport Clio 172/182/Cup/Trophy
Mini Cooper S Gen1 S'Charged

The Honda was then dropped from the list for a few reasons, mainly because of the following:
- Insurance was considerably higher than the Mini/Clio
- Tax is due to break £300/year next year
- Word of mouth that a featherlight foot still struggles to break 30mpg

So here we are, Mini or Clio. The Mini had been winning in my mind until recently when I discovered that the Gen1's also struggle to break 30mpg where as the Clio is supposed to be able to do this reasonably easily. Also the Mini's build quality doesn't fare well for it's 'BMW' tag and it's high price - £7k will just about get a tidy 2002 Cooper S with circa 50k miles on the clock compared to a tidy 2005 Clio 182 w/Cup packs with circa 30k miles on the clock and enough change to run it for a year.

Which finally brings me to why I'm here, the Clio seems to tick all of the boxes but I need some real world advice on the cars, their reliability and what to look out for in the used RS Clio market.

My target car will be a late '04 onwards RS Clio 182 FF with both Cup packs. Ideal mileage will be around the 30k mark as I want something low mileage but that's still been used (dont want the risk things seezing up due to lack of use). My reason for the 182 FF is because it's the newest that I can afford and it has enough creature comforts for everyday use as well as enough race-car pedigree to make for a fun back-road blaster at the weekends.

I hope I've not bored you all to death and the few that are still reading this far down might be able to advise/suggest or just generally comment.

Thanks for your time and I hope to be joining you guys and girls in the not too distant future

Si

 

[Becca]

Welcome!

Clios are the way forward, but i'm afraid i can't be too much help on the technical side! Sorry!

 

[Mawv]

Hi and welcome to the forum.

 

[riz]

http://www.cliosport.net/forum/showthread.php?t=371480

Look for leaky rear dampers.
On full lock all 182's will judder a little, not an issue just poor mounts.
Rear discs are expensive due to ABS so make sure not too worn down.
Ive never had any serious issues with my 182 and 172. Just ghey stuff like lambda sensors + dampers which arent too bad to replace.
Cambelts are expensive on the clio approx, £600, every 5years iirc

 

[meady100]

Well written post! I have had a 172, and apart from a few minor quality issues, it's been a thrilling daily drive for the last three years. I don't think it is a decision you would regret.

 

[Skinny]

Take em all for a test drive.... no other way to decide that isnt your own opinion...

 

[swirly182]

Alright Si,

Think I recognise you from Fiatforum! I had the black Punto, then Fabia vRS, then Astra VXR etc...

Anyway, go and test drive a 182. I had the pleasure on saturday (a black one with cup packs) and bloody loved it, best handling car i've driven, everything about the way it drives feels just right. I made a deal on the car and should be picking it up on saturday. The build quality felt better than my current Ibiza FR, so did ride quality (by alot) and road noise.

It will be the right decision!

 

[Si-87]

Thank you all for a warm and informative welcome

I will be sure to carry out test drives of both cars as well as a few others before making my final decision (hopefully sometime during February next year) and will be sure to check for leaking rear dampers as well as the usual wear and tear points such as brake discs/pads, etc.

Also thanks for the advice about the belts, I had picked up on this after reading a few horror stories about snapping aux belts usually taking the majority of the valves with them.

Good catch Swirly, I'm Si-Punto on FiatForum. Are you Wolfracepunto? The cars fit the history I think

 

[swirly182]

Yeah thats me mate, I recognised your car history aswell - small world I suppose!

Hope you'll find the Clio you want, there are plenty out there. I'll try and keep you informed how im finding mine / any niggles (if any) you might want to know about etc.

 

[Si]

hi Si

Pleasure to read such a well written post. Good luck with the Clio search

 

[Bazzon]

One thinng to keep in the back of ur mind, all the 04 and onwards cars are going to need the big cambelt service Very soon this id a 500quid job.

Else buy a 182 they are brilliant!

 

[ForceIndia]

The Trophy is the best car to drive on your list. By a country mile.

 

[Si-87]

Cheers for the offer Swirly, would be good to get an idea of how it holds up over time.

Hey Si, you'll be the reason why I couldn't register with that username lol

Bazzon, cheers for the heads up. I have anticipated this and think it could work quite well as a bargaining point. If you were buying from a garage (main dealer or independant) would you rather £500 off the car's price or have them do the belts/tensioners as part of the purchase price?

Warren, what is the Trophy like as an everyday car? I would be a bit worried that it would be a little bit too 'focused' for commuting - I hate to admit it but I am quite accustom to having a few toys

Right so to recap on the basics to be aware of when viewing a RS Clio:
- General wear and tear (paying close attention to pad/disc wear)
- Leaking dampers (do the fronts tend to leak or just the rears?)
- Lambda sensor operation (guessing this should show up with irratic hot idle)

Is there anything else specific to look out for? Do they rust, aside from badly repaired accident damage?

Also I want to say thank you to everyone who has approved of my introduction as I thought it was (more than) a tad long winded.

Thanks guys and girls

 

[Si]

Hey Si, you'll be the reason why I couldn't register with that username lol

hehe

 

[Se7en172]

Cheers for the offer Swirly, would be good to get an idea of how it holds up over time.

Hey Si, you'll be the reason why I couldn't register with that username lol

Bazzon, cheers for the heads up. I have anticipated this and think it could work quite well as a bargaining point. If you were buying from a garage (main dealer or independant) would you rather £500 off the car's price or have them do the belts/tensioners as part of the purchase price?

Warren, what is the Trophy like as an everyday car? I would be a bit worried that it would be a little bit too 'focused' for commuting - I hate to admit it but I am quite accustom to having a few toys

Right so to recap on the basics to be aware of when viewing a RS Clio:
- General wear and tear (paying close attention to pad/disc wear)
- Leaking dampers (do the fronts tend to leak or just the rears?)
- Lambda sensor operation (guessing this should show up with irratic hot idle)

Is there anything else specific to look out for? Do they rust, aside from badly repaired accident damage?

Also I want to say thank you to everyone who has approved of my introduction as I thought it was (more than) a tad long winded.

Thanks guys and girls

Hey Si it's Se7en from Fiat Forum. I can tell you if you buy a car that does happen to need it's cambelt changed/aux belt ect soon you can get it done at specialists (GDI, Rentech) for £350, oppsoed to the £600-650 Renault will charge you. Andy at GDI is a top man, I can highly recommend him and his team Be sure to to test drive a few as some do have niggly issues as alot have been ABUSED, same as any cat though, get it serviced on time, press you body up against it from time to time and it will be kind to you. Also back last August I was quoted £500 for 5year/72k and a set of red stuff brake pads by Rentech, they could be worth a shout as well. Lambda sensor seems to be an issue as I had to change my downstream lambda sensor after 37k, cost around £60 for a Bosch sensor (which is the same as standard) Renault will charge you £110. Piece of piss to change If my memory serves me correct a 12 spanner, two bolts and a bit of elbow grease will remove it. As for pads/disks ect general wear and tear, but as discused a set of rears will hit you for almost £200 (around £170 i think), obviously a good point to start discussing a discount if you are buying a car with brake life low. 4 RS clios over 4 years and the only one I had problems with was my modified 172 cup. Steering Rack, Steering, Steering rack, if it does go (isn't uncommon) your looking at £500 for the part +labour from Renault, not cheap, happened to my 172cup but it was the only car it did happen to, as I have mentioned on FF forums I have owned 4 RS clios over 4-5 years and only had problems with my last (172cup). Treat it right and it will treat you right. If you can streatch to £6500-7000 buy a Trophy. 172/182's I could easily average 37mpg on a full tank, stick to the limit everywhere and 40+ is achievable. Hope this will help. Oh the juddering noise from the front wheel on lock or heavy acceleration could also indicate accident repair damage so inspect it closly. Usual s**t full service history on time ect. Make sure everything is spot on and you will have a trouble free RS car. The Trophy has everything and the suspension does not compromise the ride anymore than the cup packs do. I ran a 172cup dropped 35mm on H@R coilovers on a 60 mile commute to work and back and loved every minute of it.

P.S Don't be put off by a few rattles (and don't expect to ever find out what is the cause)

 

[m4rkie23]

imo 7k = trophy!

 

[Si-87]

Cheers for the advice Se7en, some great food for thought in your post

Once I've sorted out the GP (buckled wheel, chipped windscreen and 2nd year service all need sorting ASAP) then I'll be set to start my RS search.

Markie, my budget is probably the wrong side of £6k now, the whole credit crunch time has taken a large hit to my car's value (which is 90% of my new car funds).

I'll keep everyone posted and will no doubt be asking more newbie questions in the not too distant future.

Thanks again,

Si

 

[ForceIndia]

Trophy is absolutely fine as a daily drive. Still has air con, cruise, recaro's. But forget all that, it's so good too drive.

 

[Si-87]

Hey all,

Sorry to drag up such an old thread.

Right since I started this thread I sold the GP and bought an S1 106 Rallye from a friend to run around in. Then in September last year I bought an R53 Cooper S which I currently own.

In February this year I moved into my first home and now I'm commuting 50 miles a day for work. The S unfortunately doesn't seem willing to return anything above 28mpg so I think it's time for a change.

I remember when I first joined up here everyone saying that the 172s can return up to 40mpg on a gental run and their market price is very good for such an accomplish hot hatch so I figured it would be worth another look.

My budget would be roughly £4500 as I want to use some of the money from selling the MINI to pay off some bills and do a bit of DIY. For this I would want something 2003 onwards with less than 50k miles on the clock and a FSH with documented belt change.

Do you think this is a reasonable target and can you give me any general advice or opinions?

Thanks,

Simon

 

[R-Sport.]

Hey all,

Sorry to drag up such an old thread.

Right since I started this thread I sold the GP and bought an S1 106 Rallye from a friend to run around in. Then in September last year I bought an R53 Cooper S which I currently own.

In February this year I moved into my first home and now I'm commuting 50 miles a day for work. The S unfortunately doesn't seem willing to return anything above 28mpg so I think it's time for a change.

I remember when I first joined up here everyone saying that the 172s can return up to 40mpg on a gental run and their market price is very good for such an accomplish hot hatch so I figured it would be worth another look.

My budget would be roughly £4500 as I want to use some of the money from selling the MINI to pay off some bills and do a bit of DIY. For this I would want something 2003 onwards with less than 50k miles on the clock and a FSH with documented belt change.

Do you think this is a reasonable target and can you give me any general advice or opinions?

Thanks,

Simon

Price wise I think 4.5 will get a 'reasonable' car- Circa 50k with belts done-
Although I doubt it would be one of the premium colours-

A lot of 40k milers are sitting around 52/5300 at the moment -- Perhaps stretch your budget just a tad more towards 4.8/5k & get a better colour that will be more desirable come the time you want to sell-:approve:
depending on the age of the R53 you probably have around 1.5/2k equity across the 2-

Steve

 

[Si-87]

Cheers for the reply Steve.

The age and mileage criteria is more because I would like something newer and lower milage than the MINI which is a 52 plate with 45k on the clock.

Which colours are and aren't desirable on the 172? My preferance would probably be flame red.

£5000 shouldn't be a problem for the right one as my MINI shouldn't struggle to fetch £6500 which would still leave me with £1500 to do the things that need doing at home.

 

[Chili Red]

Monaco Blue and Flame Red are the rarest colours in the Mk 2 172, only 468 and 480 sold in the UK.

Iceberg Silver is the most common, then Pearl Black.

http://www.renaultsport.co.uk/roadcars/heritage/172/

 

[sideways danny]

5k is good, late 182 money these days

 

[Gally]

For your budget and needs, take a trophy for a drive.

You'll buy it.

 

[Si-87]

Cheers for the replies guys The MINI market has taken a hit since I bought mine but it's still enough to secure a decent RS 1*2.

Gally, are you talking my original budget (£7K) or my new budget above (<£5k)?

I think that my budget would be better spent on a very tidy 172 over a 'reasonable' 182 because the less that I have to outlay on the right car, the more that I can get done around the house *cough*mod fund*cough*

 

[R-Sport.]

Cheers for the replies guys The MINI market has taken a hit since I bought mine but it's still enough to secure a decent RS 1*2.

Gally, are you talking my original budget (£7K) or my new budget above (<£5k)?

I think that my budget would be better spent on a very tidy 172 over a 'reasonable' 182 because the less that I have to outlay on the right car, the more that I can get done around the house *cough*mod fund*cough*

The price I quoted was for a good 182-

Least popular colours ( in terms of volume & desirability) are silver & artic blue-
Black & racing blue add value to the car- maybe 3/400 to the car these days-

You cant get red unless you buy a trophy- Inferno is orange & sits in the premium price range-

for 4.8k of your finest pounds I would be looking for a 54 / 05 plate racing blue or black 182 with around 50k on the clock FSH & belts done..
Get a FF 182 not a cup with cup packs-

Keep to owners below 3 TOTAL- so when you come to sell the logbook 3 previous-- after that people get a tad fussy-

Steve
PS 6.5 tops for your mini- I think nearer 6- mini market is flooded with older R53's-

 

[Si-87]

Cheers for the info Steve.

I thought you were referring to 172s in your post, I hadn't realised that decent 182s were in the £5k price band these days.

I think that I may be looking at a few 182s this weekend as I prefer the age of them (newer the better for me)

Is the 182 still capable of returning 35/40mpg like the 172?

PS 6.5 tops for your mini- I think nearer 6- mini market is flooded with older R53's-

Yep that was a shock for me when I started looking at AT prices for R53s the other day. When I bought mine last year £6.5 was scraping the bottom of the market, looking at either high milers or ones without a single optional extra. Now £6.5 will give you a choice of 20+ low milers with options.

I'm hoping that £6.5 is achiveable as mine is a Cherrished MINI with main dealer warranty until later this year plus it has chilli pack, full leather, JCW wheels and full aero kit - Should make it more sought after (fingers crossed).

Will keep you all posted