Paintwork Detailing Cleansers...

[Gally]

Hello again boys and girls. Todays thread... Paintwork cleansers. Still a tad unknown in detailing where enthusiasts are concerned so hopefully I can open your eyes to thew world of them.

All opinions are my own.

After removing contaminants from the paint surafce by means of, Tar remover, Iron remover and then of course clay, there can still be a film of microscopic dirt so to speak. Mostly made up of roads oils etc, the same kind of stuff that makes anti-chip tape go yellow.

In some cases these pre-steps will remove most if not all of the contaminants but it really does surprise people just how much dirt is left on the paint after the decontamination stage and even more suprisingly dirt can still be removed by using a cleanser after polishing.

Sidetracking but it was discussed recently that a 2 step cleansing process could be benficial for the perfefct finish. If going straight to polishing after the decontamination you notice on a light coloured pad that it gets dirty, showing that the paint was still housing some dirt on it's surface so... cleansing before hand can be better by keeping pads cleaner and the polish/pad isn't having to bite through the dirt before doing it's job of correcting the paint. Which leads me on to the next point...

Cleansers can be used after polishing to remove any oils left on the surface and prep the panel/s for further layers/products. A good base if you will, similar to how IPA works but the IPA leaves a bare paint surface where a cleanser will leave a base behind. IPA -(http://www.polishedbliss.co.uk/cgi-...ipa-cat9.html#aMasterREIA0000#aMasterREIA0000)

I would add at this point that in a lot of cases cleansers are used either instead of a a physical polishing step, ease of use, time constraints and the simple fact it may not require polishing but you fancy trying a new wax or you want to start again, so in this case you can use the cleanser to remove old waxes, and some light contaminants prior to a new layer of glaze or just a couple of layers of your LSP or in the other instance it can be used after polishing to prep the surface.

So hope that gives a little understanding of what cleansers are used for and when they are used. I'll go into the application of them individually.

---------

The cleansers themselves.

Now of course these threads are all imo so please bare that in mind.

Pure chemical Cleansers: These use simple safe chemicals to strip back the dirt, they contain no abrasives and none or very little fillers. If anything these cleansers will expose the true nature of your paint if it hasn't been corrected.

I'll just mention Zymol HD cleanse as it's in essence a pure cleanser and something that I would always use underneath any of the £250+ Zymol waxes for the best base but compared with the rest of the field it's a pretty old school product.

http://www.cleanyourcar.co.uk/wax/zymol-wax/zymol-hd-cleanse/prod_1000.html

A very, important second step in protecting your car's finish prior to first time application of wax and for maintaining the lustre throughout the life of ownership. Zymol HD-Cleanse will remove any dead, oxidized paint, light oxidization, moderate scratches, accumulated road film, light tar and acid rain deposits.
Zymol HD-Cleanse renews your original paint lustre without the use of harsh chemicals or stripping back paint.

Application via hand only and 1 small panel at a time before removal, this stuff will set like concrete!

-------

Lusso Revitalising Creme:
http://www.shinearama.co.uk/product.php?id=LUS-REVCREM-8

Lusso Revitalizing Creme is a non-abrasive, oil based treatment for automotive paint which will remove old wax, tar, dead paint, and minor or hair line scratches. This product combines light cleaning to remove old wax, residue, oxidized or "dead" paint and reveal a new luxurious finish. This product also smoothes the painted surface and prepares it for the wax coat.

Lusso Revitalizing Creme will give your paint that deep shine. Use before waxing any painted surface. The more time you spend working with the Revitalizing Creme, the better your car will look when finished.

This product in particular was used in my detail below and I fell in love with it. Partially because it's a relative unknown product but it's so so good. I wouldn't hesitate to use it under any wax no matter how expensive it may be.
It's actually similar in make up to HD cleanse, much more forgiving and a lot easier to work with, yielding similar results though.

Underrated cleanser on the whole.

http://www.cliosport.net/forum/show...ection-Detail!-*FRP-Content!&highlight=winter

------------------

Werkstat do 3 variations of their own cleanser, Acrylic, Carnauba and Strong.
http://www.polishedbliss.co.uk/acatalog/all-in-one-cleaners-and-polishes.html

PolishedBliss:

Werkstat Prime Acrylic blurs the line between polishes and sealants, since it has excellent cleaning and light polishing properties but also lays down a basecoat of sealant protection. It is one of our all time favourite paint preparation products, and is used frequently in our studio to prepare painted surfaces thoroughly for receiving multiple coats of sealant protection.

In a single application, Werkstat Prime Acrylic draws out deep-seated dirt and grime from painted surfaces and simultaneously lays down very tough acrylic polymers to form an elastic sealing layer that is perfectly primed to receive additional coats of polymer protection. We are always amazed at just how much additional dirt and grime Werkstat Prime Acrylic draws out of painted surfaces; brand new pure white microfibre applicator pads turn grey every single time we use it, even after extremely thorough claying.

A further benefit of the intensely smooth and level coating laid down by Werkstat Prime Acrylic is the finish it gives, which is best described by mirror-like reflectivity, razor sharp clarity and, on metallic and pearlescent finishes, the most intense degree of flake pop imaginable. In summary, Werkstat Prime Acrylic is a truly exceptional chemical paint cleaner that also lays down a fantastic looking basecoat of acrylic polymer protection, which is perfectly primed to receive additional coats of sealant or wax protection.

Acylic and Strong are billed as pretty much the best pure cleansers on the market. They offer the best in pure cleaning ability whilst also leaving a base of light sealant for further products to bond to.

They also have the advantage of being used on glass, exhausts, chrome, lights, shuts... britework about the house! It's super versatile and one of it's best advantages over the competition.

All 3 should be used by hand via an MF applicator pad. Pretty simple product to use I must say and still one of my favourites to use when I require a bare surface and the paintwork is in perfect condition otherwise i'd maybe use a cleanser with some filling ability.

-----

Zaino ZAIO:
http://www.zainostore.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=Z-AIO

Very similar to the above mentioned Werkstat. Great chemical cleanser but also leaves a base for futher products. In my case I only use ZAIO with the Zaino system (Z2/Z5/Z6/Z8 Etc) It's a great product but I always feel Werkstat has the edge on cleaning ability.

------------

A shout out must go to the new kid on the block and a rival to Zaio as an all in one product. Packed full of some fantastic fillers, by hand this product really excells, you could think of it as a new age SRP.

Auto Finesse Tripple.
http://www.polishedbliss.co.uk/acatalog/auto-finesse-tripple-cat9.html

We don't usually rate or recommend all in one style products, because they tend to be compromised in terms of what they do.

However, Auto Finesse Tripple is different. Why? Firstly, because it strikes a decent balance between cutting power and filling power; it nips out minor marring with relative ease, and fills deeper swirl marks and blemishes very effectively. Secondly, because it imparts a very slick finish characterised by excellent depth and gloss; just top it with a good quality wax for maximum protection.

Next up..

Cleansers containing abrasives:

Now at the moment I can only think of two/three but there are a couple more out there I believe.

My current favourite in this group of cleansers and can also be used by machine...
http://www.polishedbliss.co.uk/acatalog/auto-finesse-rejuvenate-cat8.html

Auto Finesse Rejuvenate is a combined light finishing polish and paint cleaner that strips away residual grime and permanently removes minor paint defects such as wash marring and fine swirl marks.
Its unique blend of ultra-fine diminishing abrasives and chemical cleaning agents makes it ideal for enhancement style details where a high degree of surface improvement is required but a multi-stage polishing process is not feasible.

I'll get on to Lime Prime after this but I always described Rejuvenate as a vastly improved version of Lime Prime. Useable by machine where as a lot of cleansers can dry out to an extent. With it's light diminishing abrasives it can offer real correction with the right pad/technique combo aswell as some fantastic filling ability by machine and hand.

A great cleanser by all means, it really leaves a lovely glossy base, rids the paintwork of any crap and nips out any light swirls by either correction or fillers so definitely a hearty recommendation from me.

==========

Dodo Juice's Lime Prime: One of the original cleansers out there. Contains micro abrasives that work very well by machine, on softer/medium paint work it can offer a decent level of protection with oils filling in any deeper RDS.
http://www.cleanyourcar.co.uk/wax/dodo-juice/dodo-juice-lime-prime/prod_441.html

Dodo Juice Lime Prime is a pre-wax cleanser formulated to clean, polish and prepare the paint surface ready for a layer of carnauba wax.

It contains a mixture of micro-abrasives, cleaning agents and oils to remove paint oxidisation, ingrained dirt and light swirlmarks.

Its oil contents makes the surface glossy and smooth, helping subsequent wax application.

It's a very good cleanser, i've used it for a few years now and at one point I was using it solely in enhancement details usually with a nice 3M Yellow pad. Works fantastically well. I know Russ (RussZS) used to use it on nearly every detail in his early days and I learned from his threads how to use it.

Some pictures of Lime Prime in action...

Now the downsides. After having some issues with LP under Zymol Glasur I was made aware of the oils in the product and it turns out it can lead to some bonding issues, not in all cases of course and it seems to work perfect with any Dodo waxes i've tried.

So if i'm ever using LP over Rejuvenate it would be using it as a polish so I would cleanse afterwards to give the best base.

Application by machine or hand, very easy to use but again can leave oils behind unlike squeeky clean finishes of other cleansers.

They also offer a Lite version that contains no abrasives.

--------

Cleansers that contains fillers/heavy fillers:

First up a product that I covered in depth in the Glaze thread, Prima Amigo.
http://www.cleanyourcar.co.uk/glazes/prima-amigo-polymer-glaze/prod_696.html

Prima Amigo is a unique polymer-based glaze. It fills light surface imperfections while prepping the paint for the application of a wax. It leaves a glossy, slick finish which is especially stunning on darker paints. Prima Amigo offers all the properties of a fine glaze without impeding the bond of a synthetic wax. With Prima Amigo, you can fill it then seal it. Amigo contains no silicones or waxes and is dust-free.

If you have ever fought with black paint as you tried to remove the very last bit of hazing left by your polish steps, you will truly appreciate Prima Amigo. Used with your machine, it will remove the lightest of surface imperfections. Black becomes a crystal lagoon of depth and clarity. Red becomes a bright liquidy glow of its former self. Light colours pop with brilliance. Prima Amigo is your last step to perfection.

Plenty of info in the other thread regarding this product. Cleanser and Glaze in one similar to the other cleansers mentioned in the Glaze thread.

---------

Blackfire Gloss Enhancing Polish.
http://www.polishedbliss.co.uk/acatalog/blackfire-gloss-enhancing-polish-cat9.html

Blackfire Gloss Enhancing Polish is a non-abrasive combined chemical polish and glaze that does away with the need for separate final polishing and glazing steps. It is designed to mask minor paint defects (such as wash marring and fine swirl marks) and dramatically enhance gloss in order to create the illusion that paint is dripping wet ahead of an application of sealant or wax protection.

During the application process, advanced chemical cleaning agents strip away any residual grime and old layers of sealant or wax protection, while kaolin clay particles and glazing oils visually reduce the extent of wash marring and minor swirl marks by filling such defects and robbing sunlight of sharp edges off of which to reflect.

------------

R222'S Gloss Enhancing Cleanser.
http://www.polishedbliss.co.uk/acatalog/r222-gloss-enhancing-paintwork-cleanser-cat9.html

Imo this is a fantastic cleanser on light colours, really brings alive Silvers in particular. Of course the filler heaviness of it helps the appearance of the paintwork whilst leaving a very clean base for further products to be applied.

Can be used in conjunction with a glaze on deeper colours but I think on light colours it does enough on it's own.

R222 Gloss Enhancing Paintwork Cleanser is a non-abrasive chemical polish and glaze that does away with the need for separate decontamination and glazing steps. It is designed to remove bonded surface contaminants (such as industrial fallout and bug splatter) and dramatically enhance gloss in order to create the illusion that paint is dripping wet ahead of an application of premium wax protection.

During the application process, advanced chemical cleaning agents strip away any residual grime and old layers of sealant or wax protection, while kaolin clay particles and glazing oils visually reduce the extent of wash marring and minor swirl marks by filling such defects and robbing sunlight of sharp edges off of which to reflect.

---------

Another relative unknown product here. Victoria Wax - Deep Cleanse.

http://www.cleanyourcar.co.uk/pre-wax-cleaners/victoria-wax-8oz-deep-cleanse/prod_310.html

I've not a had a great deal of experience with this product in particular but the play I had with it by machine and hand greatly impressed me.

Deep Cleanse starts out with the same formula as our Lite Cleanse but has an added blend for light anti-swirl and haze removing, Deep Cleanse is recommended for finishes slightly abused by UV damage. With this unique non-abrasive formulation makes it perfect for solid or clear-coated finishes.

Deep Cleanse interacts perfectly when it comes in contact with the wax to dramatically deepen the illusion of depth. Apply a thin coat of Deep Cleanse, let it sit until tacky then work in. With a soft Detail Towel, remove everything to expose a clean finish ready for waxing. If needed, repeat cleaning action until all contaminates, grime and foreign particles are removed.

--------------

So that's pretty much it for cleansers, the ins outs and upside downs.

If anyone is looking into any products at, I urge you to research, research, research. I've seen people waste money on products that are okay but they could have spent the same and got a product that could really enhance the look of their car. Detailing world is a great source of info. You don't even need to be signed in to research the products.


Thanks for reading guys, it's not a popular stage like waxing and polishing but a lot of folks know about those stages so hopefully you've learned a little more about this stage of detailing.

Thanks.

 

[James28]

Another helpful write up

Also linking to your other thread, does it depend what glaze you use as to whether you need / what cleanser you can use?

 

[Gally]

Another helpful write up

Also linking to your other thread, does it depend what glaze you use as to whether you need / what cleanser you can use?

Yeah mate, some glazes/cleansers blur the lines. Prima Amigo is sort of a one step cleanser/glaze. A lot of cleansers contain fillers as above so you possibly won't need a glaze.

I prefer to polish-cleanse-glaze if time allows. Let each product do it's job. For eg if time allowed I would cleanse with a pure cleanser before using Amigo instead of just using Amigo. All about time and how in depth you want to go.

 

[jackthewelshman]

Great stuff, this will be a great help to people. The vast amount of products on offer is confusing! I went for rejuvenate in the end, ordered a bottle yesterday. When I get round to doing a full intensive cleanup I may do a write-up from a beginners point of view, including mini reviews.

 

[Gally]

You should mate as it's hard enough getting into detailing. A beginners pov is ideal.

Rejuvenate is a great buy.

 

[Adam.P]

Gally, do you suggest cleansing before and after polishing then? Sorry I might be misreading it .

 

[Eddie.]

Brilliant read again Gally, cheers, these are going to come in very very handy in a few months

 

[Gally]

Gally, do you suggest cleansing before and after polishing then? Sorry I might be misreading it .

Flol!

Do you know how many words are in that post? No me either! Anyway it's a tad confusing.

I personally have never bothered with mine, but my paint has never really been that dirty. If I was doing a car I had no history of I would. It's cheaper to replace foam/mf applicators than it is to replace polishing pads at £8/9 a go.

You'll notice it as soon as you start polishing. So if it's never been cleansed before then yes I would cleanse after all the decontamination work.

 

[Adam.P]

Flol!

Do you know how many words are in that post? No me either! Anyway it's a tad confusing.

I personally have never bothered with mine, but my paint has never really been that dirty. If I was doing a car I had no history of I would. It's cheaper to replace foam/mf applicators than it is to replace polishing pads at £8/9 a go.

You'll notice it as soon as you start polishing. So if it's never been cleansed before then yes I would cleanse after all the decontamination work.

Cheers mate, no never been touched by my hands, and when I iron-x'd it last time it was like a blood bath, so I doubt the previous owner did much with it so will do!

I owe you a pint or two after all this help so far!

 

[Gally]

You're welcome mate, happy to help. I have a few other guides to write up or link.

 

[riz]

If i clean my car, then clay then APC, wash and dry. Do i still need a paint cleanser? If i am going to menzerna (g220 etc) then sealant/wax?

 

[Gally]

Hi Riz, has the car every been polished or cleansed before?

The reason I ask is if it hasn't maybe worth cleansing quickly before polishing so you don't ruin your polishing pad with dirt from the paint.

My personal preference for doing my own car is - Polish - Cleanse - Glaze - Wax/Seal.

 

[riz]

Hi Riz, has the car every been polished or cleansed before?

The reason I ask is if it hasn't maybe worth cleansing quickly before polishing so you don't ruin your polishing pad with dirt from the paint.

My personal preference for doing my own car is - Polish - Cleanse - Glaze - Wax/Seal.

I doubt it

 

[James28]

Gally could you recommend a cleanse to go with Britemax Black Max you recommended me?

 

[Gally]

Hi mate tbh I would probably use Blackmax on it's own after polishing.

If you're not going to be polishing so the paint will still be dirty i'd maybe look at using Werkstat Acrylic prime, it's the best pure cleanser out there and you don't need it to fill as blackmax will do that job.

If you're polishing before hand i'd just stick with blackmax by machine afterwards then seal it in.

 

[welshname]

Only just spotted all these gally. Not that I need them after the extensive list you complied for me. Great read though, assume you're going through and updating all the guides.

 

[Gally]

Just making my own apart from the polisher guides.

Might do a decontamination/claying one next.

 

[James28]

Hi mate tbh I would probably use Blackmax on it's own after polishing.

If you're not going to be polishing so the paint will still be dirty i'd maybe look at using Werkstat Acrylic prime, it's the best pure cleanser out there and you don't need it to fill as blackmax will do that job.

If you're polishing before hand i'd just stick with blackmax by machine afterwards then seal it in.

Ah okay cool. which sealant . To go with blackmax and AG HD wax!
Your guides are going to come in very useful soon ! Thanks!

 

[Gally]

Ah when I said sela I just meant "seal it in". AG HD is fine mate, super wax to use. Get 2 layers on if you have time and apply and remove a panel at a time.

 

[James28]

Was going to do exactly that . Thanks mate.
Birthday tomorrow, and pretty sure its all arrived in time

 

[Owen]

Gally, can a sealant such as Jetseal #109 sit on top of a cleanser/glaze or does the sealant need bare paint to bond well?

 

[Gally]

Hi mate. A cleanse is fine. The jetseal will seal in any fillers really well.

I'd recommend chem guys ez creme if using jetseal.

 

[Owen]

Cheers dude

 

[Gally]

You're welcome mate. Just fire away if there's anything else you need to know.

 

[aucky]

Thanks for all these sticky write-ups! It should save a lot of questions being asked.

OT, I'll be sticking with Prime Strong. Love it

 

[Gally]

It's fantastic as you know mate! I've never seen Carnauba prime used.. ever!

 

[aucky]

I had to check, didn't even know it existed! :quiet:

 

[julzh]

I prefer to polish-cleanse-glaze if time allows. Let each product do it's job. For eg if time allowed I would cleanse with a pure cleanser before using Amigo instead of just using Amigo. All about time and how in depth you want to go.

I'm returning a favour by "doing" my friends silver edition 30 and as he doesn't want any correction after clay was going to jsut put a final finish pad and polish (oily) to rid any clay marring and wanted a pure cleanser before Amigo and Swissvax BOS and I'm slightly confused by the above, would prime work fine here or are any of the options above any better?

 

[Gally]

Perfect mate, cleansing will remove the dirt from the paintowrk prior to Amigo. Great Combo.

 

[julzh]

Thanks, was a little concerned about the oily britemax final finish polish and bonding issues. First time of trying this method and your guides have been a massive help.

 

[Gally]

No problem. I need to do a few more but they're a work in progress atm.

Good luck with it. I always use a cleanser after polishing. I don't trust polishing oils.

 

[JD]

No problem. I need to do a few more but they're a work in progress atm.

If you need photos, let me know, although DW is like a picture book for kids, ergo I love it

 

[alex-avfc]

Useful this. Do you still rate Lime Prime? Or is something like Prima Amigo a better buy?

I feel like I'm years behind detailing now. I still use Lime Prime for a tidy up, have been using it on my 172 this weekend and still impressed by the ease of use and results it gives; a bit of correction, lots of gloss and a surface ready for waxing.

 

[Gally]

Funnily enough you'll find out this week how highly I rate LP. Sadly it's oils can let it down but easily sorted with IPA or a cleanser.

I'm sure you'll be impressed.

Oh and Amigo to me is a Glaze more than a cleanser. Leaves an super slick base and via DA unbeatable in it's sector.

 

[alex-avfc]

Been using the LP almost exclusively since 2009! I agree it can be a bit oily but I've found on a dry day it's less of a problem because it drys out quicker.

So the Amigo is more something just to run over the car with before putting on a fresh layer of wax?

 

[Gally]

Yeah it's a glaze, read the other sticky to give you an idea.

With the oily nature I meant it's bonding issues. Oils are great for polishing, nice long work time etc but it can leave behind oils. Have a look tonight at my Evo thread.

 

[Keith185]

Will Lime Prime work ok followed by Amigo prior to wax? Just ordered some Amigo few days ago after reading your Glaze post

 

[Gally]

It will mate but it may affect durability slightly. An ipa wipe down would help but it's an extra step.

You could go for LP on it's own or Amigo on it's own

 

[Keith185]

It will mate but it may affect durability slightly. An ipa wipe down would help but it's an extra step.

You could go for LP on it's own or Amigo on it's own

Thanks. Bought Amigo to try instead of LP so will try it on its own

 

[christie-rs]

Hello, Just wanting to find out what I would be better off doing as I was going to buy a cleanser and Poorboys Black Hole glaze or am I better off just buying Prima Amigo?

Thanks
Stewart