Ph1 Issue

[mintno1]

Have driven up north in the Ph1 and when I was stuck in some traffic was getting the revs hunting but not all the time and sounding rougher than normal and was making me think maybe extra air getting in and then seems to have a misfire at low revs, seems fine when moving properly, any common issues it could be? Am I going to be able to fix over the weekend?

Thank you in advance, I am sure you will have questions.

Cheers
Gareth

 

[Typhoon]

Injectors perhaps

 

[mintno1]

Injectors perhaps

Is their anyway I can check them to see before I get new?

 

[letsturboit]

You can check for an injector fault via dashboard.

Hold the button on the end of the right stalk and turn key buy don't start the engine. Once the dials start jumping and beeping, press the end stalk until the computer says '- - - -' on it. If you see a letter instead of 4 dashes, I believe it's H, it shows that there may be/ or previously has been an injector fault. Not the perfect diagnosis but saves getting the spanners out if you just need an inkling.

Other things to try.
Clean TDC sensor
Clean TB butterfly.
Check vacuum lines.
Test coil pack (misfire)

 

[bloke]

First thing with phase 1 is clean and recentre the throttle body.

 

[Rone]

was getting the revs hunting

Perhaps dirty throttle body, take out and rinse clean with brake cleaner spray.

sounding rougher than normal

Perhaps pre-cat lambda sensor has failed.

seems to have a misfire at low revs

Not the coil pack. If the coil pack fails will misfire at WOT first. Would think not the injectors as would think that if the injectors fail it would misfire at WOT first as there is the fuel requirement, but can't be sure as I'm not proficient on injector failure modes.
Perhaps MAP sensor failure. Disconnect MAP sensor and go for a spin to try to eliminate if it is the culprit.

Am I going to be able to fix over the weekend?

Probably not.

 

[bloke]

Not the coil pack. If the coil pack fails will misfire at WOT first. Would think not the injectors as would think that if the injectors fail it would misfire at WOT first as there is the fuel requirement, but can't be sure as I'm not proficient on injector failure modes.

Have seen plenty of coilpacks give rough running on tickover and light throttle. Same with injectors.

Can't actually recall any that have only give issue wot?

 

[mintno1]

You can check for an injector fault via dashboard.

Hold the button on the end of the right stalk and turn key buy don't start the engine. Once the dials start jumping and beeping, press the end stalk until the computer says '- - - -' on it. If you see a letter instead of 4 dashes, I believe it's H, it shows that there may be/ or previously has been an injector fault. Not the perfect diagnosis but saves getting the spanners out if you just need an inkling.

Other things to try.
Clean TDC sensor
Clean TB butterfly.
Check vacuum lines.
Test coil pack (misfire)

Using that technique it did have 4 dashes so doesn't look like an injector fault, have found a hole in one of the pipes coming off the airbox so will fix that temporarily until I can get another one sorted and am in the middle of cleaning out the TB butterfly and the TDC sensor, also don't have an exhaust on at the minute but that's another thing altogether if that doesn't work I will hopefully get it plugged in and see if it can give me another idea to work with

 

[mintno1]

Probably not.

Love your honesty 😂

 

[mintno1]

First thing with phase 1 is clean and recentre the throttle body.

Will let you know tomorrow if it makes a difference :up:

 

[bloke]

watch you don't damage the gasket when you take it off.

 

[Rone]

Have seen plenty of coilpacks give rough running on tickover and light throttle. Same with injectors.
Can't actually recall any that have only give issue wot?

Surely, if the coil pack is failing already at tickover, it should failure drastically at WOT?? As, at WOT the voltage required to jump the spark gap is times greater, because of more air in-between the spark plug gap. If the ignition coil's actual voltage riser coil wire has lost the dielectric's insulation capability at some point of the wire and is thus giving a lower voltage pulse, so low that already the tickover is suffering...

So in my opinion, if the engine is not missing at around the maximum torque rpm (sucks in the most air at max. torque) with WOT (most air -> needs the most voltage from ignition coil), then the coil pack is working quite proper... But yeah, maybe there are other failure modes on coil packs too that I am not familiar with. Maybe you can elaborate on this subject, bloke, I am always eager to learn!

 

[mintno1]

Cleaned and reinstalled the throttle body, idle control valve, TPS, airbox and exhaust with custom made mount and it seems to have helped with most of my issues, have water escaping from just after the cat (dripping) should this join in the exhaust have a gasket? Going to have to take it apart and look at that, probably next weekend, thank you for all your ideas and information, much appreciated :up:

 

[bloke]

did you centralise the butterfly?

 

[mintno1]

did you centralise the butterfly?

No, cleaned it but only on the car as didn't have a new gasket incase I ruined the one that was on, do you centralise the butterly by giving it a small dink with a hammer (technical term!) under the throttle position sensor? Going to change accelerator cable next weekend so was hoping to get a gasket by then and doing it next week and cleaning properly off the car

 

[bloke]

take the body off, new gasket is couple of quid from renault. make sure it's spotless, you can't really clean them on the car.

tps off and hold the body to the light, it will probably be pulled over to the cable side, press the start washer a bit further on to the shaft and this will pull it over. if it's not spot on when it closes you will be able to close it a bit more by hand, only a tiny bit but you'll feel it. also when you open it you will be able to feel it stick just as it starts to move (if that makes sense)

 

[mintno1]

take the body off, new gasket is couple of quid from renault. make sure it's spotless, you can't really clean them on the car.

tps off and hold the body to the light, it will probably be pulled over to the cable side, press the start washer a bit further on to the shaft and this will pull it over. if it's not spot on when it closes you will be able to close it a bit more by hand, only a tiny bit but you'll feel it. also when you open it you will be able to feel it stick just as it starts to move (if that makes sense)

That's great thank you, tried to get a gasket for this weekend but left it too late to get one from Renault, I did as best I could with it on the car but it definitely needs to come off, seems sensible to take it off with the accelerator cable.

 

[bloke]

just unhook the cable.

 

[Clingoo172]

I had to get a replacement secondhand TB, its made it loads better but i too tried to centralize the flap, just wasn't happening. Tried with the grab washer but it only made the throttle flap stick. I think once they have had so much use you have had it with these TB's, and the cost is prohibitive with purchasing a new unit (if still available) @£230 !!

There must be a specialist to overhaul these TB's to get them spot on surely....?
Check the vacuum pipe from the front of inlet to TB, a pin hol in that can make it hunt... + check its pushed home fully over the ferrules at bot ends of the pipe :wink:

 

[chris blue]

Check the vacuum pipe from the front of inlet to TB, a pin hol in that can make it hunt... + check its pushed home fully over the ferrules at bot ends of the pipe :wink:

Anyone got a piccie of this pipe, and where it goes to near the throttle body? Mines a ph1 and dont think i have this pipe.

 

[Clingoo172]

The vacuum pipe you are looking for to rule out the problem is to the right of the inlet (n/s) underneath - the fourth inlet runner, check you have something fitted form there up to the throttle body, the pipe inside diameter is a typically common 3/4mm. Its worth fitting a brand new section of that pipe for peace of mind, even better if you have a spare piece of silicone tubing, its really cheap to buy these days if you haven't already got some.

 

[chris blue]

The vacuum pipe you are looking for to rule out the problem is to the right of the inlet (n/s) underneath - the fourth inlet runner, check you have something fitted form there up to the throttle body, the pipe inside diameter is a typically common 3/4mm. Its worth fitting a brand new section of that pipe for peace of mind, even better if you have a spare piece of silicone tubing, its really cheap to buy these days if you haven't already got some.

Dont think i have that tube, but can see a small pipe coming out from roughly where you say, nothing on it - photo be handy to comfirm.

Also the spring on the throttle body i removed looks almost twisted. Out of shape a little.