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Yup, the core engine design is to do 180bhp/40mpg. And it does that very well, that's another reason why they do everything so well at 5krpm. The whole engine just isn't designed to do high revs or high power NA.
Hey guys - back on the clio - spent most of the day trying to tension the timing belt but keep ending up stuck at the same point:
Been going through the total procedure several times. I end up at the end, checking that the tensioner marks are good, and they are, but when I go to dry fit the cam setting tool 1496, it doesn't quite go in. As seen below the exhaust cam seems perfectly level, but the inlet cam is slightly tilted(TDC pinned). As you can see 1496 just doesn't quite go in the slot. If you give it a few moderate palm whacks then the tool does go in, and takes 2 hands to remove it.
What do we think? How accurate should this last cam setting be? Shall I just leave it as it is or does it have to be perfect? If so, any idea where I may be going wrong? Thanks
Been going through the total procedure several times. I end up at the end, checking that the tensioner marks are good, and they are, but when I go to dry fit the cam setting tool 1496, it doesn't quite go in. As seen below the exhaust cam seems perfectly level, but the inlet cam is slightly tilted(TDC pinned). As you can see 1496 just doesn't quite go in the slot. If you give it a few moderate palm whacks then the tool does go in, and takes 2 hands to remove it.
What do we think? How accurate should this last cam setting be? Shall I just leave it as it is or does it have to be perfect? If so, any idea where I may be going wrong? Thanks
Tension is correct. Timing is wrong however, you should be able to slot the cam tool from side to side.
Ol’ Tarby
ClioSport Moderator
Clio 220 Trophy
Did you tension it up with the pulleys loose?
Yeh I followed the manual step by by step.
Just re-did it from scratch. Closer now, 1496 doesn't slide side to side like Dan said but it goes in and out with one hand so that's about as close as I think we'll get it.
I've seen the error - it's with tool 1496 and the grooves in the end of the cams. I've mangled both up a little bit over the last few days from ham fisting them too much. So there is too much play between 1496 and the cam ends when setting. So I can't set them perfectly level to begin with, which has introduced a little bit of error when setting cam timing. So I think I'm just gunna accept that cams are slightly out of time and run with it.
Just re-did it from scratch. Closer now, 1496 doesn't slide side to side like Dan said but it goes in and out with one hand so that's about as close as I think we'll get it.
I've seen the error - it's with tool 1496 and the grooves in the end of the cams. I've mangled both up a little bit over the last few days from ham fisting them too much. So there is too much play between 1496 and the cam ends when setting. So I can't set them perfectly level to begin with, which has introduced a little bit of error when setting cam timing. So I think I'm just gunna accept that cams are slightly out of time and run with it.
Nice video! How the hell can you do that? I really don't see how that is done...
Ok, talking damage limitation - does it matter if your inlet cam is out by 1-2º? I don't see why it would thinking about it. There is plenty of overlap margin in the valve timing isn't there, so it shou;dn't affect compression, and ditto with fuel injection. If it were out by 5º+ then yeh it may start interfering with operations.
Ok, talking damage limitation - does it matter if your inlet cam is out by 1-2º? I don't see why it would thinking about it. There is plenty of overlap margin in the valve timing isn't there, so it shou;dn't affect compression, and ditto with fuel injection. If it were out by 5º+ then yeh it may start interfering with operations.
1-2 degrees wont cause damage, but will have an effect on performance. I actually made my own tool for holding the cams, the tool in the video is genuine Renault used for checking. The problem that arises, as I see it, is that the pulley locking tool does indeed lock the pulleys but the cams can tend to move as you tighten the bolt/nut that holds the pulley onto them. When you release the tools the whole assembly 'settles' to its natural position and the timing is slightly out. I am not a specialist in Renaults but I have an engineering background - and being 50 plus and slightly OCD I don't like 'nearly'. Having built many race engines I know performance wise, how important cam timing is and had to get it c**k on - just so I could sleep at nights!. I have found that the gap in the slots at the end of the cams is larger than the thickness of the Renault tool , so I made my own with an expanding bar that properly locks the cams down in the correct position. I don't know how Dan does his but he seems to get similar results. I would love to see how they did it at the factory as I cant imagine they used the service tools.
Yes! I understand exactly what you mean. That was what I was trying to say earlier but I did not say it very well.
May i ask how you made your tool? I thought about adding some weld to the Renault tool and grinding it down, but I think it just would not be accurate enough. So I need to make my own setting tool by the looks of it.
Agreed - I think it is impossible to set the cams properly with the Renaul tool 1496.
thx
May i ask how you made your tool? I thought about adding some weld to the Renault tool and grinding it down, but I think it just would not be accurate enough. So I need to make my own setting tool by the looks of it.
Agreed - I think it is impossible to set the cams properly with the Renaul tool 1496.
thx
I use the Renault tool, it's all down to checking and checking again, practice makes it so that you can do it bang on every time.
Yes that really is a skill. I had no idea cambelts were this hard in general.
Well I've got it the best I think I can for the moment. The setting tool goes in and out with one hand with medium force, but still nothing like you guys do.
I took some time to take some proper measurements and did some basic trig:
Inlet cam is running exactly 1.8º ahead
Exhaust cam is running 0.9º behind
Think I'm going to proceed with that, my patience is all but gone at the moment and as long as the car works safely then happy to leave it until the next re-build to make it perfect.
Well I've got it the best I think I can for the moment. The setting tool goes in and out with one hand with medium force, but still nothing like you guys do.
I took some time to take some proper measurements and did some basic trig:
Inlet cam is running exactly 1.8º ahead
Exhaust cam is running 0.9º behind
Think I'm going to proceed with that, my patience is all but gone at the moment and as long as the car works safely then happy to leave it until the next re-build to make it perfect.
Sounds good to me. If I make extra power by accident, I won't complain :smile:
OK next CRITICAL stage guys. Fan belt. This is all where it all went wrong last time and I wrecked the engine. Well actually it was my neighbour, who I no longer talk to... but thats for another day.
See below. What happened when the car died was Gap C had become <0mm and was rubbing against the belt, which shredded it etc etc. So I MUST not let this happen again, otherwise I'm jumping off a bridge. Now my first problem is that as far as I can see, the only thing that stops the spring rotating and hitting the belt again is the Bolts A & B. Now, the manual says to only tighten them to 21Nm... what the hell? Thats not tight at all! That won't stop it rotating again. I am thinking of tightening them to about 60Nm, what do we think?
In addition, I have welded up a little bracket which bolts on to the side of the tensioner spring and stops it de-compressing enough so that it can not de-compress enough to allow it to rotate and hit the belt. Any thoughts on that also?
OK next CRITICAL stage guys. Fan belt. This is all where it all went wrong last time and I wrecked the engine. Well actually it was my neighbour, who I no longer talk to... but thats for another day.
See below. What happened when the car died was Gap C had become <0mm and was rubbing against the belt, which shredded it etc etc. So I MUST not let this happen again, otherwise I'm jumping off a bridge. Now my first problem is that as far as I can see, the only thing that stops the spring rotating and hitting the belt again is the Bolts A & B. Now, the manual says to only tighten them to 21Nm... what the hell? Thats not tight at all! That won't stop it rotating again. I am thinking of tightening them to about 60Nm, what do we think?
In addition, I have welded up a little bracket which bolts on to the side of the tensioner spring and stops it de-compressing enough so that it can not de-compress enough to allow it to rotate and hit the belt. Any thoughts on that also?
OK main engine core in and mounted. Looks rather nice.
Damaged injector replaced with another from Engine Dynamics. Had trouble getting the injectors into manifold. 3 went in ok. One would just not go in, seal is slightly bulged out on top, I guess we'll see how it works.
Hooked up ECU and a battery and turned her over. Got the compression tester out and checked but the first two readings I took were very ugly, so decided to give up for tonight.
Damaged injector replaced with another from Engine Dynamics. Had trouble getting the injectors into manifold. 3 went in ok. One would just not go in, seal is slightly bulged out on top, I guess we'll see how it works.
Hooked up ECU and a battery and turned her over. Got the compression tester out and checked but the first two readings I took were very ugly, so decided to give up for tonight.
Hey guys just a couple of questions about engine bay please while I'm putting it back together.
- I don't like the OE air intake box and was planning to replace it with some kind of bad boy open cone intake, you know the kind of thing I mean. If so, then the thing on the far front passenger side becomes superfluous. What is this? Is it a pump for pre-heating the cat converter like the Honda S2000 has? If so, is there any reason why I need to leave it in there? Will I get dash warnings etc or can I just rip it out?
- same question regards the carbon can on the far driver front. With my nissans I usually rip them out and vent to atmosphere. Any reason why I can't do that on the Clio?
Many thanks
- I don't like the OE air intake box and was planning to replace it with some kind of bad boy open cone intake, you know the kind of thing I mean. If so, then the thing on the far front passenger side becomes superfluous. What is this? Is it a pump for pre-heating the cat converter like the Honda S2000 has? If so, is there any reason why I need to leave it in there? Will I get dash warnings etc or can I just rip it out?
- same question regards the carbon can on the far driver front. With my nissans I usually rip them out and vent to atmosphere. Any reason why I can't do that on the Clio?
Many thanks
Cheers James I'll get on it.
Some stuff I got done today:
- took advantage of empty engine bay, painted both side of engine bay & inside front arches with anti-rust gunk
- re-fitted most of the engine bay parts. For anyone following the thread, you don't need to remove all of the stuff that I have, I just made a balls up, thinking that the motor had to come out.
- removed a load of guff from engine bay that hopefully I won't need.
Some stuff I got done today:
- took advantage of empty engine bay, painted both side of engine bay & inside front arches with anti-rust gunk
- re-fitted most of the engine bay parts. For anyone following the thread, you don't need to remove all of the stuff that I have, I just made a balls up, thinking that the motor had to come out.
- removed a load of guff from engine bay that hopefully I won't need.
OK;
- engine bay finished, looks very nice
- cylinder compressions don't look too nice; 200Psi, 215, 185,175 - never had a car with such variance. That was a cold and dry test, haven't got engine started yet.
- and now for the bad bit... the engine still doesn't start. **sigh**, turn key and starter turns over, but engine does not catch. Also starter motor cuts after 2 seconds, that's new.
- engine bay finished, looks very nice
- cylinder compressions don't look too nice; 200Psi, 215, 185,175 - never had a car with such variance. That was a cold and dry test, haven't got engine started yet.
- and now for the bad bit... the engine still doesn't start. **sigh**, turn key and starter turns over, but engine does not catch. Also starter motor cuts after 2 seconds, that's new.
Cool
Immob is fine I think (light is staying on during key turn).
OK I'll start again tomorrow with a fresh head:
- check OBDII for any errors
- check injectors are squirting
- check plugs are firing
Does anyone know a decent way to check if the injectors are firing? Currently I remove rail and injectors and watch to see if they are spraying, but it is messy and crap method.
For the plugs I'll just remove one and ground it to the body and then I guess I'll see the spark.
Immob is fine I think (light is staying on during key turn).
OK I'll start again tomorrow with a fresh head:
- check OBDII for any errors
- check injectors are squirting
- check plugs are firing
Does anyone know a decent way to check if the injectors are firing? Currently I remove rail and injectors and watch to see if they are spraying, but it is messy and crap method.
For the plugs I'll just remove one and ground it to the body and then I guess I'll see the spark.
Plip the doors locked and unlocked too.
IT WORKS! THE BLOODY THING WORKS!
phew
OK I spent 2 hours today trying every combination of starting/locking/blipping etc etc. In the end the thing that got it working was I locking it up AND put tape on the bonnet shut sensor so it thought the bonnet was close (no slam panel). THEN I walked 100ft away and waited 5 mins. Then came back unlocked and started perfectly. I think the thing that did it was creating the distance between the key and the car. Usually the key is stored within feet of the car, so that may have been upsetting it.
There is smoke coming out of the exhaust manifold area, but hopefully that is some oil being burned off. I def torqued the exhaust manifold.
OK next task is to fill & bleed the coolant system so I can run the engine properly and tested the cambelt and fanbelt properly.
phew
OK I spent 2 hours today trying every combination of starting/locking/blipping etc etc. In the end the thing that got it working was I locking it up AND put tape on the bonnet shut sensor so it thought the bonnet was close (no slam panel). THEN I walked 100ft away and waited 5 mins. Then came back unlocked and started perfectly. I think the thing that did it was creating the distance between the key and the car. Usually the key is stored within feet of the car, so that may have been upsetting it.
There is smoke coming out of the exhaust manifold area, but hopefully that is some oil being burned off. I def torqued the exhaust manifold.
OK next task is to fill & bleed the coolant system so I can run the engine properly and tested the cambelt and fanbelt properly.
LOL this thing REALLY does not want to run.
After the first successful trial I tried it again with water in it. It worked for a few seconds and then spluttered and died. From then on it would just catch for a few revs and then splutter and die.
From my Nissan years that sounds like fuel starvation. So checked and indeed voltage over fuel pump is 0v when turning over. But ignition seems to be firing still.
SO.
Hard-wired another battery to the pump so it is constantly running, then tried starting and it ran perfectly.
SO.
The power is not getting to the fuel pump now, and it doesn't feel like it is on purpose this time, it feels like something has gone wrong in the wiring from ECU to fuel pump. Any idea? Are there are common fuel power circuit problems with these cars?
thx
After the first successful trial I tried it again with water in it. It worked for a few seconds and then spluttered and died. From then on it would just catch for a few revs and then splutter and die.
From my Nissan years that sounds like fuel starvation. So checked and indeed voltage over fuel pump is 0v when turning over. But ignition seems to be firing still.
SO.
Hard-wired another battery to the pump so it is constantly running, then tried starting and it ran perfectly.
SO.
The power is not getting to the fuel pump now, and it doesn't feel like it is on purpose this time, it feels like something has gone wrong in the wiring from ECU to fuel pump. Any idea? Are there are common fuel power circuit problems with these cars?
thx
Got her running again. I removed all of the relays and fuses out of the engine bay fuse box and cleaned them up and put them back and now the fuel is running and the car is working.
Looks like I have a gremlin in the engine bay fuse/relay box. Possibly corroded terminals, possibly loose connections.
Looks like my next task is to re-do the electrics in the engine bay. Replace all relays and fuses, remove fuse box and clean all of the terminals.
Looks like I have a gremlin in the engine bay fuse/relay box. Possibly corroded terminals, possibly loose connections.
Looks like my next task is to re-do the electrics in the engine bay. Replace all relays and fuses, remove fuse box and clean all of the terminals.
Hi guys. Just an update of how the car is going.
I have performed several test drives, 1mile then 2 then 5 then 10. No engine problems which is great. The car runs faultlessly.
After each run I checked all over the engine to ensure nothing had slipped and no leaks had developed etc.
A few teething issues:
1) Error code P0443 has come up - "EVAP Emission Control System Purge Valve C Fault". It may be because i have removed the carbon can and the acoustic valve thing from the front of the engine bay, but I though I would ask incase it was something else?
2) the seats are really nice but they sit a little high for a 6'2" man, I almost touch the roof. I have a couple of spare Civic Type R seats, I may see if I can get them to fit instead. The OE Clio seats don't have any airbags or anything in them do they?
3) Checked out the exhaust system, it's typical 11 year old OE. Rusty cat, rusty system and a blow from I think the front of the cat. Thinking about replacing the entire system for aftermarket and stainless and a little louder. Wouldn't mind changing the cat also. I know you can't decat these new cars as it messes the o2 sensors up. Does anyone have any recommendations for a Stainless system and maybe new stainless cat please?
4) The steering wheel has 4 button on it "+" & "-" on the left and "R" & "0" on the right. Can anyone tell me what they do please?
thx
I have performed several test drives, 1mile then 2 then 5 then 10. No engine problems which is great. The car runs faultlessly.
After each run I checked all over the engine to ensure nothing had slipped and no leaks had developed etc.A few teething issues:
1) Error code P0443 has come up - "EVAP Emission Control System Purge Valve C Fault". It may be because i have removed the carbon can and the acoustic valve thing from the front of the engine bay, but I though I would ask incase it was something else?
2) the seats are really nice but they sit a little high for a 6'2" man, I almost touch the roof. I have a couple of spare Civic Type R seats, I may see if I can get them to fit instead. The OE Clio seats don't have any airbags or anything in them do they?
3) Checked out the exhaust system, it's typical 11 year old OE. Rusty cat, rusty system and a blow from I think the front of the cat. Thinking about replacing the entire system for aftermarket and stainless and a little louder. Wouldn't mind changing the cat also. I know you can't decat these new cars as it messes the o2 sensors up. Does anyone have any recommendations for a Stainless system and maybe new stainless cat please?
4) The steering wheel has 4 button on it "+" & "-" on the left and "R" & "0" on the right. Can anyone tell me what they do please?
thx
Monaco 172
Point 1 - Po443 is to do with the carbon canister you're right, I believe there's a fix you can do with a resistor or just plug the purge valve back in and tuck it away (could be wrong)
Point 2 - There's some washers you can remove to give 10-15 mm drop.. not that significant but may help?
Point 3 - No recommendation for 182 exh.. I have a 172 haha
Point 4 - Cruise Control.
I tip my hat to you sir for your hard work and sticking with it!!
Dave
BG Clio 182
You probably wont find much performance increase from the cat, its already a 200 cell sports cat from the factory.
bozothenutter
ClioSport Club Member
True...but the shape is probably better
Cheers guys
- OK regards the P0443 errors I'll just plug the purge valve back in, I'm not even sure why I removed it, was just bored I guess.
- regards the seat, actually that sounds really good thanks, I'll remove seats and remove spacers, I'll think that'll do it. Just hate it when head rubs on ceiling lol.
- cheers Dave much appreciated!
- guys regards the exhaust and the cat, I am not looking for a performance boost from either. It is just the fact that the OE's are getting very old and rusty and starting to cause blows. I really just wanted aftermarket stainless steel ones so that they'll be nice and tight and seal properly etc. With Nissan 200SX's that I deal with for instance, you can buy a cat-back stainless system for £200-300 new, and you can get new "sport cats" for around £100 new. I was wondering if we have the same kind of options for the Clio.
- OK regards the P0443 errors I'll just plug the purge valve back in, I'm not even sure why I removed it, was just bored I guess.
- regards the seat, actually that sounds really good thanks, I'll remove seats and remove spacers, I'll think that'll do it. Just hate it when head rubs on ceiling lol.
- cheers Dave much appreciated!
- guys regards the exhaust and the cat, I am not looking for a performance boost from either. It is just the fact that the OE's are getting very old and rusty and starting to cause blows. I really just wanted aftermarket stainless steel ones so that they'll be nice and tight and seal properly etc. With Nissan 200SX's that I deal with for instance, you can buy a cat-back stainless system for £200-300 new, and you can get new "sport cats" for around £100 new. I was wondering if we have the same kind of options for the Clio.
Pop the stereo out and take a picture of the label send it via pm and I'll generate the code for you