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Punto GT Vrs Valver





Has anyone had a race with a punto how does the 16v hold up!Went in my mates GT yesterday quick but only when the turbo kicks in.....

Siggsy
 


They are very rapid cars, in a straight line, they just edge it against my VTS but around the twisties i toast them, they just dont handle!
 

Tom

  EV


no they dont handle themselves well at all!!!

you tune one!, the torque steer is tremendous!

if i had one id glue hedge trimmers to the sides incase i do a b road blast
 


My m8 has a Seicento Sporting with a custom 1242cc race engine which is suprisingly nippy - but again it doesnt like the nearest hint of a bend!:confused:

His was a prototype used to develop this companies range.

http://www.uadmotorsports.co.uk/pages/products/details/stages.htmlhttp://www.uadmotorsports.co.uk/pages/products/details/stages.html

If you go into the Gallery his is the Yellow 600M... The silver one with the bonnet vents is a Turbo, very quick - but regularly goes bang! ;)

I would stick to French! They may be complicated if something goes wrong - but they are just soooo much fun in the twisties! :D
 


Quote: Originally posted by Ralphy_VTS on 18 February 2003


They are very rapid cars, in a straight line, they just edge it against my VTS but around the twisties i toast them, they just dont handle!


Spot on Ralphy!

I had a Punto GT before my 172. Against a VTS, I would JUST edge ahead, but couldnt handle anywhere near as well.

They are about 7.5 to 60 and like the Williams, that is misleading in that it requires a change to 3rd just before 60. Like with a VTS they would also move ahead of a Clio 16v, but again, not on handling!

The thing with the Punto GT is that they have a VERY high pressure turbo for what they are. Its 18.8 PSI (1.6 bar) when on overboost (which I believe is higher pressure than a Cosworth) and 1.2 bar after that. If you catch them at the right time, they are EXTREMELY rapid off the mark. Their 2nd gear is amazing if you can get it to overboost.

They suffer a lot of turbo lag in my experience, and really have to be on song for best performance, but be very aware of them - that goes for us 172 and Cup owners too. They are quicker than you think! - this is coming from someone whos driven both!
 
  Was a Clio 1.8 16v


A VTS has gotta have better handeling than a 16v cause its newer and had millions spent on developing its handeling from where the 16v left of!

I also thought the book on a Punto GT was 8 something and ive seen one drag race and it looked nowhere near a 16v of the mark, but i surpose like the R5 GTT; it can be tuned cheaply and easirly to over 150bhp. :cry:
 


I have got mpegs of my dusting VTS and 16v at the pod, both in standard form and mildly modded, ie 160bhp and 180 lb/ft running around 21/22 psi. The GT has great torque, something you "valvers" dont know anything about ! In standard from, they dont handle, too much body roll for me, intial turn in is good, although the steering is too light, but then it understeers. Using leftfoot braking helps a bit, keeps the nose in line, and boost up, but the long an short of it is, the chasis has too much flex and is crap !



UAD - well thats another story ! will tell you lot a few home truths about them late ! (rob dogs) Annd i wont be liable, because they are true !
 


Quote: Originally posted by Mikey16vClio on 18 February 2003


I also thought the book on a Punto GT was 8 something and ive seen one drag race and it looked nowhere near a 16v of the mark, but i surpose like the R5 GTT; it can be tuned cheaply and easirly to over 150bhp. :cry:

8 something is what magazines such as Max Power seem to have listed as the 0-60. Manufacturers is 7.7 to 62 I believe, and as I said, that is deceptive due to the gear change required. Trust me......a Clio 16v would not keep up in a straight line unless modified and still maybe not if it caught the GT on overboost.
 


Fiat also conduct there performance tests with 2 passengers, 30 klios of baggage and a full tank of fuel. None of this strip your car out lark !



I doubt that the muppets from max power could get it off the line cleanly either.
 


My mate has a GT its a bit slow off the mark but it really does go when it picks up he said that in the fiat test they do have 2 passangers i heard about that. they also claim that the times are not acurate due to exess spin on the small wheels put 16s or even 17s on and the time goes down greatly more like 7 seconds well this is what i heard anyway
 


Two different engines in the GT. GT1s have more grunt lower down the rev range and tend to have laods of torque. GT3s in comparision like to be revved. They do fly once on the move though !
 
  172 Cup


Err, nope.

There were 3 Punto GTs with 2 variations of the same engine. The only differences were the con rods, Idle actuator and a slight difference in the compression ratio. Torque remained the same and bhp went from 136 in a gt1 to 130 in the late gt3s.
 


Quote: Originally posted by griff_90 on 18 February 2003


Err, nope.

There were 3 Punto GTs with 2 variations of the same engine. The only differences were the con rods, Idle actuator and a slight difference in the compression ratio. Torque remained the same and bhp went from 136 in a gt1 to 130 in the late gt3s.
Ok, if we are goin to be perdantic, there was only one punto GT with 3 different evolutions. GT2s were a hybrid of the 1 and 3, some had the GT1 engine some didnt, different door cards etc. The engines, had completely different power deliveries due to the lighter con rods and higher compression ratio the GT3 now liked to be REVVED as previously stated. Having seen over 100 gts been rolling roaded, i can assure you that the GT1 has more torque, and the GT3s always produce more power. But hey, who i am to argue, i only owned a GT3 and was in the http://www.puntosports.co.ukwww.puntosports.co.uk group for 3 years !
 
  172 Cup


get your handbag girl!!

Mate I owned a GT2, ST horne owned a GT3, and I was in a GT club so I do know what I am talking about, door cards, speakers and all. Oh and the handbrakes were different dont forget that.

You can hardly say that a car with a redline at 6k "likes" to be revved can you. If the torque was a cople of lb/fts more I do appologise!
 


Stuart Horne, i know him, Infact i have a mpeg of his punto on the rr at aldon, didnt he melt a piston ?

My scoob red lines at 6, but that likes to be revved ! What annoyed me was, you tried to pick me up on a technicallity, that infact, wasnt really wrong !



<jonto puts his handbag away>
 


LOL the handbags are out - Mike16vclio, i wouldnt assume as a VTS is newer it has better handling. It may have better handling but being newer makes no difference - MK1 & 2 golf brilliant 3 & 4 mailto:cr@p">cr@p, 205 gti brillian 206 gti mailto:cr@p">cr@p i could go on;)but i wont.
 


Quote: Originally posted by Jonto on 18 February 2003


Stuart Horne, i know him, Infact i have a mpeg of his punto on the rr at aldon, didnt he melt a piston ?

My scoob red lines at 6, but that likes to be revved ! What annoyed me was, you tried to pick me up on a technicallity, that infact, wasnt really wrong !



<jonto puts his handbag away>
There is a mistake in there ! Who can spot it ? Carlos should !
 
  S2000


Carlos, I dunno about you but experiences with the MK1 GTis, but mine have been down right scary, a lot of body roll and not as much grip as I would have thought! I can however see how they were revolutionary in there time!
 


Jonathan Woodward

I know James Hans, Mike Jukes etc

Speak to Richard baker every now and then, and Matt Friend bought my car off me !

Were you on e-groups ? What name did you go by ?
 
  Was a Clio 1.8 16v


Quote: Originally posted by CarlosTheJackel on 18 February 2003

LOL the handbags are out - Mike16vclio, i wouldnt assume as a VTS is newer it has better handling. It may have better handling but being newer makes no difference - MK1 & 2 golf brilliant 3 & 4 <A target=_blank href= "mailto:cr@p">cr@p, 205 gti brillian 206 gti <A target=_blank href= "mailto:cr@p">cr@p i could go on;)but i wont.
Right, u must have used the only example out their to (dis) prove ur point mate. I used to own a Mk3 Golf in standard form and i agree that they are sh*t handeling cars with more lean than Michael Jackson, but then again the Mk3 VR6 has got to be better than any Mk1/2. The 205 in its day was a great handling car and i two like the older hot hatches but the 206 WILL have better handleing only it doesnt feel like it cause of the driver feedback. The same reason why 16v handling doesnt feel that good, is because u dont relise how quick ur going, were as in a 205 itll feel like ur doin the same corner but at twice the speed only ur probably doing it at the same speed in the 206 only u cant tell.

Jus my opnion anyway. Not agree?
 


whats the difference between Punto GTs and Uno Turbos (mark 2, 1400S)

I used to have an uno turbo, and after that i had a nova on twin 40s byldenstien head big cam etc and i only just manged to stay ahead of a punto GT, my uno felt no where near as quick as my nova.
 
  FRS Mk3 Red edition


Mitsi hiya mate you have just brought some really cool memeories of my punto flooding back.i loved that car.shame about the idiot who piled into the back of you and writ it off :-( no matter what grief that car gave me i still forgave it.

it was cheltenham that it melted the head gasket and piston rings on 1 & 2 due to the fact i was trying to run a restricted pipe to the pierburg boost control, trying to get a prolonged overboost state.you mess to much you end up paying for it.

At aldon RR i got 144BHP running in standard form except for an exhaust and air fliter.

bet you still miss the punto mitsi??

Jonto were you the guy @ aldon with the blue GT3 and you played squash for the county???
 


LOL Mikey, i wasnt trying to argue;)I do drive a lot of company cars from all the top manufacturers and newer is definatly not better. I hate the MK4 golf that i drive everyday so much, i much prefer the old Citreon ZX i drive to work by miles in the handling department. Its all down to what you like. I owned a mk2 16v gti for a while and have driven a new gti but didnt like it anywhere near as much. I could point to mk1 & 2 fiestas being good handling and the 3 being a shocker as another example. Also the 306 to the 307 - the 307 aint fun and how they will ever manage a decent Gti from it heaven knows. I dont rate the 206 gti against the 205s and havent driven a VR6 but my golf mad mate doesnt rate the handling on them. I do have the autoexpress review of the vr6 but bought the willie instead. Im am not trying to diprove you just stating my opinion - not fact, Anyway thats only my humble opinion - feel free to flame me:D
 
  Was a Clio 1.8 16v


Ok then, but my Mums Mk4 Golf has superb handeling, really can take corners at much higher speeds than the Mk1/2. This is probably to improve safety when in trouble. However it really isnt a rewarding drive, you dont feel connected to the car like you do even in a Megane for instance.

Now id love to race on a track with you in a Mk1 Golf Gti and me in a Mk4 Gti, even if engine output was identical. Id probably lap u mate cause i could take corners at much higher speeds, however ud probably have more fun driving the Mk1/2. Now if thats what u mean by handeling and not actually how quick u can take it round a bend then all you examples are correct.

Wright or Wrong my friend?
 


Quote: Originally posted by ST HORNE on 19 February 2003


Mitsi hiya mate you have just brought some really cool memeories of my punto flooding back.i loved that car.shame about the idiot who piled into the back of you and writ it off :-( no matter what grief that car gave me i still forgave it.

it was cheltenham that it melted the head gasket and piston rings on 1 & 2 due to the fact i was trying to run a restricted pipe to the pierburg boost control, trying to get a prolonged overboost state.you mess to much you end up paying for it.

At aldon RR i got 144BHP running in standard form except for an exhaust and air fliter.

bet you still miss the punto mitsi??

Jonto were you the guy @ aldon with the blue GT3 and you played squash for the county???
Stuart - thats me, how did you know i played squash ? cant remeber telling you that, although it was about 14 months ago ! I can vaguely remember you telling me you were getting a Lupo GTI
 


GT came in 3 versions. GT1 had the lowest compression and the GT3 has the highers. GT2 somewhere in between. not all GT2s lacked the door pods and some also had body coloured side skirts but the plain silver wheels. GT3s have the body coloured sideskirts and the dark wheels. also the mirros in GT1s were completely body coloured unlike the other ones which are partially colour coded. I have done 1/4 15.2s at crail in mine and raced a 16V which was beat but not by much. mine can also rev to 7200rpm but there is no point as power has gone by then. my sporting has a redline of 6500 onyl 500 more than the GT (in standard form) and its a rev happy engine 1242cc 16V.







the GT engine is an evolution of the 1.4 uno engine. bigger turbo, bigger intercooler etc etc
 
  FRS Mk3 Red edition


jonto my memory for certain info is fairly good.you had played squash at a local country club in redditch if i remember correctly.Yeah i bought the lupo but rejected it and had a refund from VW.had a 172 which the g/f has now and got myself a CTR. i hear james hanns is getting 300+ BHP out of his punto how possibly is he doin that???
 


I couldnt comment on a mk1 golf too much as ive only driven it a few times but it depends on what mk4 golf you mean. I have NOT driven a mk4 Gti but have a 130 GT Tdi (good handling) and our company 90 Tdi (soft, wallowy and front heavy). If you turned up in the 90bhp Tdi id fancy my chances;) I would think my old mk2 16v campain would go round a track quicker than the 130 gt tdi but thats a flying guess. What i havent seen i commented on and would be interseted to know - how does a 16v/williams handle compared to a 172/cup? We probably should have started another thread for this:oops:
 

Clart

ClioSport Club Member
  F31 330d


I loved your/our car too mate - But i got a gt turbo now - hows ur civic?
 


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