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Really want a 172 cup but...
- Thread starter Rumour control
- Start date
Not for me as I'm older and comfortable. Again, he who issues the comment ???
Totally within my own space. Comfortable with life, love it. I just love a debate, great fun to me. Love to prove my and generally others take on life. (as long as you are old enough to grow pubes of course)
See I don't use these silly little icons to show emotions that I, nor any mature person would take as a way of life.
Issues??? No, just a little contempt for what I used to be and have learnt to be a bigger person.
Totally within my own space. Comfortable with life, love it. I just love a debate, great fun to me. Love to prove my and generally others take on life. (as long as you are old enough to grow pubes of course)
See I don't use these silly little icons to show emotions that I, nor any mature person would take as a way of life.
Issues??? No, just a little contempt for what I used to be and have learnt to be a bigger person.
blaze said:
Yeah Mr GQ Smooth :clown:
Debate? Look it up, debate involves reasoned discussion. You're just having a reactionary argument with yourself. If you're just an internet troll then fair play, you clealy enjoy it. If you really are having a serious turn about this whole ABS thing then you really should go see a doctor and get some tablets. You tablet
BMW M4; S1000 RR
Mark, I think everyone realises that when 2 cars are braking, neither are locking their wheels, but one is being modulated by ABS and the other isn't (regardless of whether ABS is fitted) the car that is just braking hard will win.
You can do that in a car with or without ABS. The point here is, let's leave the 172 vs. 172cup out of it and assume they're the same car. You can buy one with ABS and one without.
It seems the only reason you would buy the none-ABS model would be to punish yourself for braking too hard or braking on un-even or debris ridden surfaces.
Again I hope I can say this with relation to others, people won't buy the Cup for the reason it has no ABS.
I think Blaze is trying to get his message across that NOT wanting ABS in a road car is a fairly irresponsible thing to do as you just cannot expect what can happen. But sure, if you can FEEL the brakes in a Renault every time then fair play to you.
I can't personally can't believe what I'm reading, people claiming to be experienced and critisising Blaze for his apparent lack of maturity stooping to disgusting remarks like Revels'...
Roy perhaps you should look up debate and read some of your previous posts. Fighting fire with smoke ???
You can do that in a car with or without ABS. The point here is, let's leave the 172 vs. 172cup out of it and assume they're the same car. You can buy one with ABS and one without.
It seems the only reason you would buy the none-ABS model would be to punish yourself for braking too hard or braking on un-even or debris ridden surfaces.
Again I hope I can say this with relation to others, people won't buy the Cup for the reason it has no ABS.
I think Blaze is trying to get his message across that NOT wanting ABS in a road car is a fairly irresponsible thing to do as you just cannot expect what can happen. But sure, if you can FEEL the brakes in a Renault every time then fair play to you.
I can't personally can't believe what I'm reading, people claiming to be experienced and critisising Blaze for his apparent lack of maturity stooping to disgusting remarks like Revels'...
Roy perhaps you should look up debate and read some of your previous posts. Fighting fire with smoke ???
cliokhunt said:
I'd be happy to. If you can point me in the right direction to a post where I seriously tried to belittle about 30 forum members in one thread. STILL you are missing the point. STILL you are failing to take on board the fact that ABS, in the Clio at least, cuts in too early. Have you driven a 182 very hard on road or track? The ABS panics way before the tyre slip is anywhere near becoming close to locking the wheel. This is a simple fact that you and blaze refuse to acknowledge.
The benefits of ABS have not been argued here, as I think we all agree it's good for panic braking. The drawbacks have been argued, and you seem to be wearing your blah blah hat whenever they are mentioned. It's really quite funny
G
Gav_172CUP
Ive had my car 12 months now and its awesome mate. Quick as hell and look the dogs. The brakes are pretty good pal. If you drive a saxo then get into a Cup it bloody feels like abs. Get one, you won't regret it i promise!!!!!
Roy Munson said:I'd be happy to. If you can point me in the right direction to a post where I seriously tried to belittle about 30 forum members in one thread. STILL you are missing the point. STILL you are failing to take on board the fact that ABS, in the Clio at least, cuts in too early. Have you driven a 182 very hard on road or track? The ABS panics way before the tyre slip is anywhere near becoming close to locking the wheel. This is a simple fact that you and blaze refuse to acknowledge.
The benefits of ABS have not been argued here, as I think we all agree it's good for panic braking. The drawbacks have been argued, and you seem to be wearing your blah blah hat whenever they are mentioned. It's really quite funny
My point exactly roy.
I have a cup, sarah has a 182. Ive driven both hard, and tested the brakes on both hard.
With it being dry at the moment, my cup slows down very quickly, with no skidding (just much abuse of my tyres)
The 182's abs will kick in if i try and brake in the same manner, tapping the brakes on and off quickly, and thus for the times that the brakes are tapped off, the car is not slowing...
Thus it brakes slower in the dry. Does that seem a reasoned argument?
Oh, and in the real world, theres no real speed difference between the two...
Oh, and lmao at the continuing argument up the page ^^ hehe
Peperami said:
It does. It's a scientific technical fact that maximum retardation is achieved with a percentage of slip. That slip means the wheel is still rotating, but the mass of the car pushing against the braking force is actually starting to push the wheel forward. In other words the tyre is slipping across the surface but the wheel has not yet locked. It's still turning. In my experience ABS will step in long before this tyre slip occurs. This is a fact, and it highlights a limitation of ABS. It doesnt mean ABS is not safer overall though.
I really do believe that some people are better off buying an ABS version. In that way I can imagine it being an issue trying to decide wich clio to get. It's absolutely ridiculous stating that a non ABS will brake as fast and as controlled then a ABS version. Some time ago we've spend allmost a week testing a decent brake setup for our mk2 clio rs grp N. Trust me, in bad weather it made a big difference. In the dry it didn't seem to be that big of a deal but then again we had fitted an brake balance adjuster. With that not being fitted on a roadgoing clio ( the std. brakebalance really did not impress me ) I think ur better of with ABS.
172 Cup
blaze said:
Does that include yourself? Dude, I've read this whole thread (now wishing I hadn't started at all) and I can seriously express my concern for you. You're 42 and you come on to a forum and act like you're 10yrs old.
Your constant insulting and patronising comments such as 'testosterone fuelled little man' and 'insignificant individual' really make you look as if you think you're some kind of God just because you're older and been on a few advanced driving courses. I feel sorry for you. At your age you should have better things to do than sit in front of the PC and act like an idiot.
And may I ask why you are no longer in the police force? Could I hazard a guess it's because you go around beating up every person who you stopped and didn't agree with everythng you say? I think you're a very, very angry man.
*big hug*
oh and I guess I fit your stereotypical small minded, testosterone fueled, small, insignificant little man because I drive a 172 Cup. Ahh well, what're you gonna do.
80MPG BEEZA
i dont have the abs wired up on mine when i dropped my 2.0 for the simple reason is it takes the breaking out of my own control if i ever go into a skid which i've done once in the rain i simply take pressure off and re apply just tapping the brake like abs would nothing safer or unsafer about it really
172 Cup
Peperami said:Lmao! Can i have one too?
Any time, baby!
Anyone else..? We can turn it into an orgy!Batman said:
Yea but Blaze would have you beleive that ABS pumping the brakes 16 times per second makes all the difference. I bet he can masturbate 16 times faster too. (to articles describing the advantages of having ABS of course)
BMW M4; S1000 RR
Wahey, still going.
Do you know what pretty much the only cars that don't have ABS these days. Track and race cars. Why's that ?? Weight saving.
The only place ABS could get in your way is going over a bump when you are braking, but even then, the time you would lose is negligable because it would stop modulating the brakes as soon as it realised it's not needed anymore.
The pure and simple fact is, that in a crash situation, everyone reacts the same way, they tense up and push the brake.. Hard.. It doesn't matter how much experience you have, it's human nature. It is the same on track, everytime you see an F1 driver crash off the track, his wheels are locked. Nothing you can do about it.
Do you know what pretty much the only cars that don't have ABS these days. Track and race cars. Why's that ?? Weight saving.
The only place ABS could get in your way is going over a bump when you are braking, but even then, the time you would lose is negligable because it would stop modulating the brakes as soon as it realised it's not needed anymore.
The pure and simple fact is, that in a crash situation, everyone reacts the same way, they tense up and push the brake.. Hard.. It doesn't matter how much experience you have, it's human nature. It is the same on track, everytime you see an F1 driver crash off the track, his wheels are locked. Nothing you can do about it.
MarkCup
ClioSport Club Member
cliokhunt said:
Totally wrong in my opinion...
Braking is a skill, and is one of many things you have to master to be able to handle your car at the limit.
Replacing part of that ability with ABS would make for boring racing with no daring outbraking. Everyone, regardless of capability, would just mash the pedal and, tyres and pads excepted, they would all brake exactly the same.
The Porsche Carrera cup cars (think thats correct name - one make series) used to have ABS but the latest model (this seasons new shape 911) does'nt. Not sure why they removed it though, but fairly sure it was'nt to save weight Cliokhunt....the chip that controls ABS can't be that heavy!
More likely because its was only usefull in wet conditions and actually increased stopping distances in the dry (usual race conditions)
More likely because its was only usefull in wet conditions and actually increased stopping distances in the dry (usual race conditions)
BMW M4; S1000 RR
ABS is made of more than a chip !!
But yes, the main reason is, weight saving. You cannot brake harder in the dry without ABS. You say the wheels are rotating slightly slower than the rears, sure. But you can do that with ABS too, it's just when you hit that limit, instead of locking up, they get pumped automatically.
But yes, the main reason is, weight saving. You cannot brake harder in the dry without ABS. You say the wheels are rotating slightly slower than the rears, sure. But you can do that with ABS too, it's just when you hit that limit, instead of locking up, they get pumped automatically.
Wow, some very angry people who have the ability to be able to drive on a road with the perfect ability to "modulate" a right foot.
Who cares about a track. That's not where you tend to die, write off your car or do worse to others.
Roads equal emergencies from time to time. Therefore a non ABS car will brake at exactly the same retardation as an ABS version. Now the problem is that on a track you can let off a little without any worries. Trouble is on the road there are huge amounts of hazzards, apart from the one directly in front.
So are the NON boys able to lock up in the wet under emergency/heavy breaking and thyen be able to lock again add infinitum at the rate ABS can, no you can't.
This is why in the winter there are so many dead cups and drivers and not so many electronically controlled systemed incidents. Goes back to the invincibility (believed) of the young male driver. Insurance, stats., death rates prove it all. This does not ignore the simple fact is that when you need to brake on the road you mash the pedal.
I'm prepared for people to have a go, yet the total ignorance of some just proves the cost of insurance and the death rates among young males is spot on. The idea that all you cup drivers have tyhe braking prowess of Nigel Mansell is laughable.
Don't forget the ABS system was perfected by F1 for a reason. Even these guys can't brake and steer in the wet without, yet can with it. (changes to rules not included).
Who cares about a track. That's not where you tend to die, write off your car or do worse to others.
Roads equal emergencies from time to time. Therefore a non ABS car will brake at exactly the same retardation as an ABS version. Now the problem is that on a track you can let off a little without any worries. Trouble is on the road there are huge amounts of hazzards, apart from the one directly in front.
So are the NON boys able to lock up in the wet under emergency/heavy breaking and thyen be able to lock again add infinitum at the rate ABS can, no you can't.
This is why in the winter there are so many dead cups and drivers and not so many electronically controlled systemed incidents. Goes back to the invincibility (believed) of the young male driver. Insurance, stats., death rates prove it all. This does not ignore the simple fact is that when you need to brake on the road you mash the pedal.
I'm prepared for people to have a go, yet the total ignorance of some just proves the cost of insurance and the death rates among young males is spot on. The idea that all you cup drivers have tyhe braking prowess of Nigel Mansell is laughable.
Don't forget the ABS system was perfected by F1 for a reason. Even these guys can't brake and steer in the wet without, yet can with it. (changes to rules not included).
OK I conceed it is more than a chip but its not exactly heavy. I'm gonna leave this thread alone now. Agree to disagree and all that.
Its hilarious that its got to 190 posts, and the bloke who started it made his choice and bought the car a long time ago!!
(Uh-oh he's back! just when I thought it was safe.....)
Its hilarious that its got to 190 posts, and the bloke who started it made his choice and bought the car a long time ago!!
(Uh-oh he's back! just when I thought it was safe.....)
Titanium 182 w/ cup packs
Is this still going on? Did I mention I bought a full fat 182?
Titanium 182 w/ cup packs
LOL jooliona. I pick the new beast up on saturday. Had a 172 and a trophy before so see how this compares! Roll on saturday!
Lol, for a copper he's not very good at listening to peoples reasoned opinions, and letting people have them, without resorting to childish name calling and getting angry.
Imagine him dealing with a violent and non-compliant prisoner, or a domestic violence situation...
Oh, sorry, 'ex' copper.
Makes sense :rasp:
Why does it matter to you guys whether you can brake harder in the dry with or without abs? Are you jealous or summat? Have blaze and cliokhunt tested a 172 cup and full fat over the same route to test the theory? Actions speak louder than words, try it and you'll see...
Imagine him dealing with a violent and non-compliant prisoner, or a domestic violence situation...
Oh, sorry, 'ex' copper.
Makes sense :rasp:
Why does it matter to you guys whether you can brake harder in the dry with or without abs? Are you jealous or summat? Have blaze and cliokhunt tested a 172 cup and full fat over the same route to test the theory? Actions speak louder than words, try it and you'll see...
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