Rear end feels loose on 172 cup

[Mark.B]

Had this problem when I first bought the car but it's gradually getting worse, when you're on a bumpy road or hit a series of bumps in quick succession it feels like the back end of the car is moving from side to side. It even does it in a straight line, the best example is on the raised bumpy yellow lines on the approach to roundabouts on dual carriageways.

It feels like either knackered rear dampers or rear beam bushes but just wanted some other opinions. The car is my daily driver but I'm planning on doing the odd trackday so I'm just about to start replacing/upgrading some of the suspension.

So far my list is:
Uprated dog bone mount
New genuine front & rear dampers
Rear beam bushes
Steering rack and ARB bushes

Is there anything else I should be replacing while I'm at it and what are the best bushes for a mainly road/occasional track car? I don't mind sacrificing a bit of comfort for better handling.

 

[imprezaworks]

Tyres and tracking

 

[mattf4r]

Blown rear dampeners usually make the car feel like it's trying to kill you. However it's best to get it in the air and have a poke around before you just throw money at it.

What suspension is it currently on? I've had 3 sports on various mileage (60k - 135k) and can't say I've ever replaced a rear beam bush or felt the need to. Unless you specifically want to go poly with them I can't see it being an issue but again have a look around.

 

[RIC172]

Worn shocks can play a big part in that too. I’ve changed my shocks, springs and tyres after having sever handling issues on my cup. It’s great now

 

[Mark.B]

Tyres are ok but I suppose tracking could be worth looking at first before I do anything else.

However it's best to get it in the air and have a poke around before you just throw money at it.

The dog bone mount is the first job so I'll have a look around while its up on the ramp to do that, it definatly feels like it's trying to kill me though so I'm sure something at the rear is worn. It's done 99,000 miles and the way I look at it is the standard dampers are 16 years old so as they are pretty cheap anyway it'll be worth fitting new ones.

 

[imprezaworks]

What tyres? Same all round?

Thought it had new dampers? If not it’s likeky to be that

 

[adamlstr]

+7 on the rear dampers, when they’re fecked it’s like driving with McDonald’s trays under the rear wheels.

 

[bloke]

Always worth sticking powerflex beam bushes on, standard ones are meh at best.

 

[Mark.B]

Rear dampers aren't new, I'm just about to order all 4 so looks like doing the rears will be the first job and hopefully that will sort out the dodgy handing.

 

[Kev@KAM]

If the rear beam is steering, this usually will not be under acceleration as the front pulls the rear round. If the chassis stabilises as you accelerate out the corner that could potentially be the issue. More likely for dampers to wear out however than a rear bush to be completely screwed.

First do a bit of a health check. Alignment check is not expensive.

 

[Mark.B]

I've got to know all the places on the roads where it happens now and accelerating hard definitely helps things. As you said it pulls the rear round and lessens the amount of rear end movement.

I wanted to replace the shocks anyway as I'm sure they're old and past their best. I'll do the rears first to see if it is that then do the fronts and get the alignment checked and go from there.

 

[Coops Mk1]

yep that's the best course, dampers and tracking, then look at bushings if still not right

 

[donnylad]

sorry to hijack, I have a problem where if I am going towards a corner quite quick, say 90-100 and have to brake quite hard the car feels like the rear always wants to overtake the front under heavy breaking. The car is stripped in the rear which I think is adding to the problem. It probably me trying to go to fast as well

Not sure if i have a ARB, so will check that later

 

[Ads29]

sorry to hijack, I have a problem where if I am going towards a corner quite quick, say 90-100 and have to brake quite hard the car feels like the rear always wants to overtake the front under heavy breaking. The car is stripped in the rear which I think is adding to the problem. It probably me trying to go to fast as well

Not sure if i have a ARB, so will check that later

What suspension are you currently running? How old is it etc etc?

Are you braking and then coasting/staying off throttle as that can have an influence on some corners, and can cause the back end to want to come round

 

[donnylad]

What suspension are you currently running? How old is it etc etc?

Are you braking and then coasting/staying off throttle as that can have an influence on some corners, and can cause the back end to want to come round

Runnign standard dampers with ebache springs all round.

I normally Brake to drop my speed just before the corner and then light throttle round the corner, trying to accelerate out.

The movement seems to be with just as i stop the braking before i add some throttle, I will have to test some more.

Its probably my s**t driving!

At curborough tomorrow so will a few different things then.

 

[RIC172]

sorry to hijack, I have a problem where if I am going towards a corner quite quick, say 90-100 and have to brake quite hard the car feels like the rear always wants to overtake the front under heavy breaking. The car is stripped in the rear which I think is adding to the problem. It probably me trying to go to fast as well

Not sure if i have a ARB, so will check that later

Do you have Toyo T1R’s?

 

[JB21]

sorry to hijack, I have a problem where if I am going towards a corner quite quick, say 90-100 and have to brake quite hard the car feels like the rear always wants to overtake the front under heavy breaking. The car is stripped in the rear which I think is adding to the problem. It probably me trying to go to fast as well

Not sure if i have a ARB, so will check that later

Could be your technique were you're not being progressive enough coming off the brake, or I've had similar when a front ABS rings was slightly cracked therefore slipping, causing and inefficiency in the front braking leading to the rear trying to overtake me.

Check free stuff first like tyre pressures are even, then look for worn suspension & brake components. If still doing it pull the ABS fuse and try again, if it cures it its more than likely a sticking calliper or slider as the brakes will default to 50/50 bias upon removing the abs fuse so less work done by the fronts.

Hope that makes sense.

 

[donnylad]

its a 172 cup, so no ABS. If i break to hard its just full lock up.

I was on T1R but they were shite, I am now on PS3's

 

[RIC172]

It won’t have abs as it’s a 172 cup

 

[Landyman]

Rear end feels loose? You want to try a 205 GTi 1.9
Now THAT’S a loose rear end.

 

[Ads29]

Runnign standard dampers with ebache springs all round.

I normally Brake to drop my speed just before the corner and then light throttle round the corner, trying to accelerate out.

The movement seems to be with just as i stop the braking before i add some throttle, I will have to test some more.

Its probably my s**t driving!

At curborough tomorrow so will a few different things then.

Assuming all the suspension is in order (rear beam bushes weaeing are getting quite common now with age) then I'd maybe suggest braking a touch earlier, I'm not trying to criticise by any means but I have found from my own experiences the difference it makes keeping the car settled on entry to a corner, already being off the brakes (provided your not trail braking) and back on throttle certainly seems to work for me.

There are so many variables it's almost impossible to say what may or may not work for you, I'd firstly check the car, make sure everything is as it should be and go from there, most importantly get the car out, drive it and enjoy it ??, oh and don't put yourself down ? none of us are perfect after all


Ads

 

[donnylad]

really enjoyed curborough yesterday, was a great day. I was struggling with traction so much as the with one wheel off the floor or bouncing it just spins instantly.
we were doing a 3 figure of 8 laper from the middle gate, I ended up about 1.8 seconds behind the winner which was a ford KA near on 500bhp. Think the other 2 that beat me were both quite new focus ST both with 300+

I have a lot to learn, going to swap all the suspension to coiovers and try and have it fully set up. Not sure if i have a rear anti roll bar so will check and order one of them if not. I also don't have a front strut brace, but not sure if that makes much difference on these cars.

Managed to set the front passenger brake on fire some how, it was seriously smoking etc when I came off

So looking forward to next years championship! think I managed around 36 laps yesterday over the day

 

[Mark.B]

I finally got round to changing the rear dampers yesterday which has sorted the problem.

I knew it was that as soon as I removed them as they both compressed with virtually no resistance and the drivers side had no resistance at all in the first inch of its travel. Unsurprisingly it's transformed the handling, will hopefully get the fronts swapped and tracking done next week.

One of the lower bolts was a right pain in the arse, took about 20 mins and a lot of wd40 to shift it!