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MicKPM
ClioSport Trader
Clio16v/Zoe Z.E.50
I never understand this either as the normal reason for wanting this is because it supposedly increases the "feel" of the steering but ive never found hydraulic assistance to be particularly bad in this area.
If you take it off sell me the pump and brackets please.
If you take it off sell me the pump and brackets please.
182, 205gti mk2 golf
Fair comment....Just wonderd if anyone has tryed it?
The only reason i ask is that we always take the power steering of the race cars (mk2 golf) which makes a massive difference to the feel you get back through the wheel. Its never been an issue been to heavy as when up to speed.
Another reason i wonderd is that if you compare a 205GTi road car or a mk2 golf GTi road car power steering model v non power steering model....Non power steering wins every time for me ...
The only reason i ask is that we always take the power steering of the race cars (mk2 golf) which makes a massive difference to the feel you get back through the wheel. Its never been an issue been to heavy as when up to speed.
Another reason i wonderd is that if you compare a 205GTi road car or a mk2 golf GTi road car power steering model v non power steering model....Non power steering wins every time for me ...
I'm with you here Barky, I much prefer the non assisted feel although I have not experienced it on my own car yet, my thinking is its a ton car so can't be too bad lol. Many have done it and some don't like it, from my research it's usually the people who are using their cars as a daily that don't like it, take from that what you want.
Its easy really, you have two options, sack off the ps pump and re-route belt with a smaller version or replace the alternator mount (cup brackets) with a Volvo bottom bracket.
Then you can replace the rack for a dci rack and fit your track rods and ends or you can do what I have done which is keep your standard rack that keeps the same turns from lock to lock and loop the pipe on the rack and blank off the connections at the pinion. Fill the rack with oil and the pinion with grease.
Job done
Its easy really, you have two options, sack off the ps pump and re-route belt with a smaller version or replace the alternator mount (cup brackets) with a Volvo bottom bracket.
Then you can replace the rack for a dci rack and fit your track rods and ends or you can do what I have done which is keep your standard rack that keeps the same turns from lock to lock and loop the pipe on the rack and blank off the connections at the pinion. Fill the rack with oil and the pinion with grease.
Job done
Yuck, 20 twenty turns lock to lock, how is that improving feel, its like steering a boat.
it wouldn't be my preferred route but some have a problem with looping a ps rack which is all a non assisted rack is.
Pauleds
ClioSport Club Member
Merc Dueliner sport
My rally cars were 205's and PAS wins every time! PAS rack is also a quicker rack too.
I also tried a proper non PAS quickrack which wasnt any quicker than the PAS rack and it was seriously heavy especially with some sticky tyres on it.
Also got a standard 205 on the drive and thankfully that has got PAS.
PAS all the way!!!!
MarkCup
ClioSport Club Member
I took mine off of my 172 Cup out of necessity as I'd put a kink in the standard rack. Mike at Rentech replaced it with a Dci rack IIRC...it certainly wasn't 20 turns...more like 2.75 lock to lock.
As far as feel goes, it was night and day different from standard...I was genuinely shocked at what I could feel through the wheel, it felt like I had a chunk of tyre tread in each hand and could tell the second it started to slip across the tarmac.
Downside is the weight...at parking speeds it was nigh on impossible to handle. Normal road speeds, heavier, but not unmanageable.
On track at pace it was OK...you felt it in your shoulders after a day and as Chip says...much much harder to twirl the wheel quickly should you need to.
Having done it before would I do it again?
No. The benefit doesn't outweigh the compromise.
As far as feel goes, it was night and day different from standard...I was genuinely shocked at what I could feel through the wheel, it felt like I had a chunk of tyre tread in each hand and could tell the second it started to slip across the tarmac.
Downside is the weight...at parking speeds it was nigh on impossible to handle. Normal road speeds, heavier, but not unmanageable.
On track at pace it was OK...you felt it in your shoulders after a day and as Chip says...much much harder to twirl the wheel quickly should you need to.
Having done it before would I do it again?
No. The benefit doesn't outweigh the compromise.
Bluebeard
ClioSport Moderator
Whichever has fuel
I've done it on my mk1 and once driving, it's fine.
(I've not had the car on track so can't comment on that)
I did it purely for ease of removing/re fitting of the engine and to have less parts to fail overall.
I've had two track days ruined over the years where ps pipes have split and meant I've had to go home early.
(I've not had the car on track so can't comment on that)
I did it purely for ease of removing/re fitting of the engine and to have less parts to fail overall.
I've had two track days ruined over the years where ps pipes have split and meant I've had to go home early.
Yeah I'm getting much better feel of the road, still using it as a daily ATM and 3 point turns are a pain but if your not a fag if definitely recommend ditching it. When your up to speed it doesn't feel like it turns less quickly, you've just gotta be a man about it. It's all down to personal opinion and personally I think it's better. Clearly some people don't feel the same but I suppose it comes down to your driving style.
I can understand keeping it on a rally car as your sawing at the wheel but for circuit use, non pas on small cars is better IMO, you get warning when your on the edge mid corner. Eat your porridge and you'll be fine.
And as Daniel said it simplifies things and gains you some power, win win.
And as Daniel said it simplifies things and gains you some power, win win.
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172 Ph1
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182, 205gti mk2 golf
Thats interesting...Iv gota say everything non powersteering iv driven on the road + on track iv always liked....A little more difficult to park etc but well worth it with the extra fee you get when driving. Does the 1.2 Rack fit straight onto the steering column the same? I take it the 1.2 is a faster rack than the dci rack?
Fine on a circuit car till you lose the backend and need to get all the lock on as quickly as possible. Im a 16 stone bloke who has no trouble lifting weights in the gym but that doesnt change the fact I can turn the steering wheel quicker with PAS than without it.
Obviously something that is going to split opinion by the looks of this thread, but ask yourself why touring cars etc have it if its so useless on a circuit car?
Bluebeard
ClioSport Moderator
Whichever has fuel
Oh come on!! Did you stand on them scales with just one foot?
No I stood on two sets at once, one with each foot, and they both agreed I was 16
172 Race Car
Drove Adam's MK1 at Llandow with no pas, awful imo. Also drove a mk2 with no pas and DCI rack before. Not for me.
As for the pump/line issues and gaining power etc, thats why we run a Saxo pump on the race car. the rack is stock 172 plumbed into the saxo pump. Has a very nice feel, id say better than the stock setup. It was on my track car for 2 years and raced it for 3 years and never let us down.
As for the pump/line issues and gaining power etc, thats why we run a Saxo pump on the race car. the rack is stock 172 plumbed into the saxo pump. Has a very nice feel, id say better than the stock setup. It was on my track car for 2 years and raced it for 3 years and never let us down.
