roll cage

[MarkM]

I want a roll cage but also want access to the rear seats.

A 6 point bolt in (a front and rear cage) is what I am after, I think!

I dont want anything fancy as it is for the road.

Will it stiffen up the chassis much if it is bolt in?

I noticed that on demon tweeks website OMP do pre fabricated cages and they give a price range of £150 - 350 which seems quite cheap.
http://www.demon-tweeks.co.uk/products/ProductDetail.asp?cls=MSPORT&pcode=OMPAA103/137.

Any opinions?

 

[run115]

Mark give mark fish a call, he does them and has one fitted in his on a day to day basis. Its basically a safety devices cage to his specs. If you dont have hs number send me a pm and i'll give it to you.

Vince

 

[MarkM]

cheers vince.

before I give him a call any idea how much.

 

[run115]

yes mate, it does take 2 days to fit, workmanship is to die for, so i think 1200 fitted is quite a good deal. That includes all diagonlas, X bars and everything.

Vince

 

[y0z2a]

Mark Fish is the man.

yes, its about £1200.

/y0z

 

[MarkM]

I am getting a price from safety devices for one of these, see pic.

6 point bolt in that I will fit myself. I was hopeing more in the region of £400 not £1200!

 

[stu8v]

No point in a road car, also check you can still get insurance as many companies will run a mile.
Plus they are not the best things to bang your head on should you have an accident, in motorsport you wear a helmet.
Oh and £1200 to supply and fit a cage is obscenely expensive!

 

[MarkM]

No point in a road car, also check you can still get insurance as many companies will run a mile.
Plus they are not the best things to bang your head on should you have an accident, in motorsport you wear a helmet.
Oh and £1200 to supply and fit a cage is obscenely expensive!

I would have thought they would at least provide better protection in a crash?

You can put padding on them in areas where you may bang your head.

Valid point on the insurance I would check first.

Your comment on no point for a road car can you clarify the reasons why?

I am no expert on this at all. I would have thought better crash protection and increased stiffness in the shell would be as valueble on the road as the track?

Agree with the cost though 1200£ is way out of my prices range.

 

[stu8v]

You will soon get bored of the climbing frame getting in the way, 6 point cages are more for protection than for stiffening up the car.
They are just too much of a compromise, if you want a true track car get a multi point and strip the car.
IMHO they are just dangerous in road cars especially so for rear seat passengers you need to wear a helmet.
I bought this weld-in one for 500-600 all in and its solid.

 

[MarkM]

Thanks for comments stu.

The problem I have with my car is that although I can mod engine suspension etc it must remain a 4seater. I would love to strip it and get bucket seats but it not going to happen.

I have always liked the look and idea of roll cages in cars and thought the 6 point would give me the look of a full roll cage and still retain the interior of the car.

My passengers are my two daughters (ones 3 and the other 8 months). There safety is obviously paramount to me and you make valid comments about occupants banging there heads on solid steel bars in a crash.

Is a padded bar still as much of a problem though? I take it you think the safety gains would be outweghed on the road through not useing helmets?

 

[Guy]

I am getting a price from safety devices for one of these, see pic.

6 point bolt in that I will fit myself. I was hopeing more in the region of £400 not £1200!

safety devices cage for 400 quid?? think you'll be lucky.. more like 500ish for the cage then a couple of hundred for the fitting. allthough theyre bolt in from previous experience they can need reinforcing plates welding in to bolt through!

very much doubt you can keep the rear seats with that one you attached as it has cross bars on the rear section. plus the rear section usually bolts down to either the wheel well hump bits, or the bottom of the floor pan.

insurance usually doubles with a roll cage! alot of insurance companies wont do them..
only person i could get my car insured with with a cage was adrian flux and graham sykes - oth using NIG as the underwriter.

IMO just forget the cage idea unless your stripping it out with two buckets and turning it into a track car.

or you could get one of them polished chavvy aluminium show cages that in an accident would snap and stab through the back of your head.

 

[MarkM]

^^lol^^ I was trying to avoid anything that was for show only because as you say would no doubt do more harm then good.

The harness bars on the back are optional and according to safety devices the cage is bolt in and requires no welding.

I have just emailed safety devices asking about there road specific cages, which would be used with standard seats and no helmet, to find out there opinion on the safety issues Stu has described.

I am not definately going ahead with this just an idea really to see what people think. Some good comments though.

Is a roll cage classed as chavvy then?

 

[Guy]

roll cage chavvy??
no dont be daft!

i meant show cages.. them bling bling replica dummy cages made of cheese that bolt to the seatbelt holes:

 

[MarkM]

So what your saying is only go for a cage if you are stripping the car if not it is a bit naff.

These chavvy show cages sound like a good idea. Anything that can potentially decrease the chav population cant be a bad thing.

 

[Guy]

its not a bit naff, but it wouldnt be practical having a proper roll cage with full interior.. youd have very awkward access to the rear seats, if at all.

this is just my opinion but if you want the interior. have the interior. if you want a cage. you need to strip it out with buckets


just my opinion but its your car mate, do what you want.

i'd be a bit worried though having children in the back if you do have a cage in.. its bad enough whacking an airbag in an accident, a steel bar would be lethal.

 

[MarkM]

its not a bit naff, but it wouldnt be practical having a proper roll cage with full interior.. youd have very awkward access to the rear seats, if at all.

this is just my opinion but if you want the interior. have the interior. if you want a cage. you need to strip it out with buckets


just my opinion but its your car mate, do what you want.

i'd be a bit worried though having children in the back if you do have a cage in.. its bad enough whacking an airbag in an accident, a steel bar would be lethal.

Yes safety is my main concern and if it compromises the safety of the car I will not bother with one.

 

[Guy]

personally i wouldnt recommend having a cage in there if you're going to have children in the back..

ive driven before with my nephew in the back of my car (no cage) and hated it incase any accident happened.. would have been 10x more worrying if there was a metal bar near his head.

 

[MarkM]

I suppose my original thoughts on it were that it would stiffen the chassis up and in a crash provide better protection especially in a side impact where most cars suffer very bad deformation.

It is interesting then that companys sell these 'road' specific cages if they are potentially more dangerous then not having a cage at all. Safety devices make the following statement on there website -

"Road cages are made to the same exacting standards as competition cages, using the same high grade materials. However they are often not as complex, but will usually still offer substantially more protection compared to a standard vehicle with no cage at all."

There road cage diagram is the one I posted above so 6 point bolt in.

 

[Gary G]

Yasser has the £1200 cage from Mark Fish in his cup....he has full interior due to the hill climb class he competes in

 

[stu8v]

The classes which require interior to be fitted often render it unusable once a cage is fitted.

 

[stu8v]

Thanks for comments stu.

The problem I have with my car is that although I can mod engine suspension etc it must remain a 4seater. I would love to strip it and get bucket seats but it not going to happen.

I have always liked the look and idea of roll cages in cars and thought the 6 point would give me the look of a full roll cage and still retain the interior of the car.

My passengers are my two daughters (ones 3 and the other 8 months). There safety is obviously paramount to me and you make valid comments about occupants banging there heads on solid steel bars in a crash.

Is a padded bar still as much of a problem though? I take it you think the safety gains would be outweghed on the road through not useing helmets?

The rear diagonal runs directly across the rear seat, ie from the main hoop above the drivers head to the passenger side rear turret area. AFAIK you can get the S/D one with a removable diagonal but what would be the point?

 

[MarkM]

^^you are right you can get the cage with the diagonals removed see the pic in my previous post.

From what I can see looking at the pic the diagonal section is only a small part of the cages structure. I do not imagine the cage becomes completely useless through the loss of those two bars?

In fact if you look at the attached pic showing a stripped and caged car those diagonal bars have not been included.

 

[stu8v]

For the kids sake i wouldnt bother....

The diagonals make a massive difference to the strength of the structure.

 

[stu8v]

^^you are right you can get the cage with the diagonals removed see the pic in my previous post.

From what I can see looking at the pic the diagonal section is only a small part of the cages structure. I do not imagine the cage becomes completely useless through the loss of those two bars?

In fact if you look at the attached pic showing a stripped and caged car those diagonal bars have not been included.

The diagonal bar is there as its also got harness bars.

 

[MarkM]

For the kids sake i wouldnt bother....

The diagonals make a massive difference to the strength of the structure.

As I said before if there is a potential safety issue I wont bother.

The cage in the pic has a harness bar but has nothing strengthening the bars that connect down to the rear of the car. Do you think this cage is useless?

 

[stu8v]

As I said before if there is a potential safety issue I wont bother.

The cage in the pic has a harness bar but has nothing strengthening the bars that connect down to the rear of the car. Do you think this cage is useless?

The cage in the car shown has a diagonal and harness bars?

 

[MarkM]

I think I misunderstood what you meant. I do not think the bars you mean are optional I was going by the diagram which shows optional X diagonal and harness bars.

I have had a quote back from roelands who do the OMP cages they do a 10point bolt in for £415 but you need to weld plates into the floor to fit it and you cant have the rear seats.

I have done a bit of internet research and there is quite a bit supporting what you said although it is all forum talk.

Do you know of any official testing, crash staistics etc. that conclude doing this is a bad idea?

 

[stu8v]

Common sense really....

All cages require plates welding to the floor, its to stop the cage punching through the thin floor on any impact.

 

[Lunner]

As Stu said many people think a bolt in cage simply bolts in, plates have to be welded in and tehn teh cage bolted to these plates.

Agree wiht £1200 being stupidly stupidly over the top....sure k-tec aren't fitting it y0z?

If you want a cage for the road for show, juyst get a half 'show cage'

If you fit it yourself you have to be careful, if a cage is fitted incorrectly it can be very dangerous, there are strict clearances between teh head and cage and bopdy and cage that have to be followed, and as i think was said earlier, if you are in a crash and just ina normal seat wiht no helmet and no harnesses you arer more then likley gonna smack your head on it.

All in all IMO not a very good idea, esp trying to use the rear seats too, and i think someone mentioned having kids in the back....with a cage....christ i pity the kids if the car crashes

 

[Lunner]

Not sure where you got the data for safety devices cages from, last i heard they had gone bust

 

[Adams_16v]

id defo keep it on a stripped car thats used for track.

it would be a major inconvenience in a car in full trim with passengers in the back!

they arent designed to have people sat inbetween the rear cage!

safety deveices have moved abroad! i emailed them about 6 weeks back and they said they arent selling as of yet, but will be soon!

iv got an 8 point jobbie in the garage, but not got round to getting it fitted yet

 

[edde]

Safty devices have gone and moved prodcution they are probaly under new managment etc and moving ti poland or wherever in a restructuring bid ie make them cheaper so you can still contact them.