RR Result at RS Tuning

[broster@JAM-Sport]

According to that graph you've lost nearly 50PS i.e. 25% through the drivetrain. I'm sorry but thats just not possible. Based on your wheel figure of circa 152.5PS an approximate fly figure based on a 17% loss is 178.4bhp.

If anything I'd say that was low and you really should be seeing 181 - 186 bhp depending on how 'strong' your engine is.

Try a different rolling road!

Cheers
M

depends what rollind road it was done on, on a maha rolling road such as our transmission losses are calculated on the run down, where as a dyno dynamics "guesses" the transmission losses.

so for example the graph with high transmission losses which you say isn't possible, if it was on a maha rolling road the low wheel figure could be explained by a sticking brake caliper, then the high losses would be seen on the run down giving an acurate flywheel figure, where as a dyno dynamics wouldnt see this and would give an inaccurate flywheel figure.

also things to note with flywheel calculated figures, we have done alot of testing a few years back to quieten down some forum talk of rolling road being more accurate than others.....


we tested wheel figures with no glue on the rollers, then put spray glue on the rollers, the wheel figures changed by 6bhp, the calculated flywheel figure on a maha rolling road saw 0.5bhp difference accross the run this was down to the fact that the maha dyno will work out the transmission losses.

were not saying that the dyno dynamics are a poor inaccurate rolling road because they arn't they are a well prices rolling road that works well.

 

[btaser2]

...A nice decat, widened exhaust pipes, a good located cold air intake and properly matched inlets will already give you almost 30 bhp!

Opps forgot to add the custom re-map and the muffler!

Decat
Intake
Matched Inlets
70mm widened exhaust pipes
Muffler
Re-map

=

Gains are almost 30bhp. And ofcourse if you have a healthy car!

 

[Bazzon]

Opps forgot to add the custom re-map and the muffler!

Decat
Intake
Matched Inlets
70mm widened exhaust pipes
Muffler
Re-map

=

Gains are almost 30bhp. And ofcourse if you have a healthy car!

still way to optimistic imo,

 

[RSTuning]

Hi, i have Clio 197 All standart, and my result on RR was 199,4 HP and 211NM of torque...

http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/2613/rollingroadmyyu1.jpg

You have 152PS atht eh wheels and this one has 166HP ATW

 

[Bazzon]

On a side note thanks for sorting our PH 1 out paul.

 

[btaser2]

Decat, intake, 70mm widened pipes and a muffler will give you avrg. 8bhp
Matched inlets will give you at least 10bhp clean.
And a custom Re-map will give you an extra 10bhp after these mods for sure.

Where's the optimistic part in it?

 

[Bazzon]

Decat, intake, 70mm widened pipes and a muffler will give you avrg. 8bhp
Matched inlets will give you at least 10bhp clean.
And a custom Re-map will give you an extra 10bhp after these mods for sure.

Where's the optimistic part in it?

Your mods will give alot less with out a remap so adding the remap figure on top is daft, you are probably looking at a 20BHP gain with all that.

 

[kevo66]

Decat, intake, 70mm widened pipes and a muffler will give you avrg. 8bhp
Matched inlets will give you at least 10bhp clean.
And a custom Re-map will give you an extra 10bhp after these mods for sure.

Where's the optimistic part in it?

For one thing you WILL NOT get 10bhp from matched inlets on a 197!! Im not going to argue with anyone on here I cant be arsed TBH. What I will say is you do your mods and we'll put them back to back on any RR of your choice eh?! :clown:

 

[btaser2]

Who says its a 197? I am talking about the ph1 172s though.

 

[RSTuning]

depends what rollind road it was done on, on a maha rolling road such as our transmission losses are calculated on the run down, where as a dyno dynamics "guesses" the transmission losses.

so for example the graph with high transmission losses which you say isn't possible, if it was on a maha rolling road the low wheel figure could be explained by a sticking brake caliper, then the high losses would be seen on the run down giving an acurate flywheel figure, where as a dyno dynamics wouldnt see this and would give an inaccurate flywheel figure.

also things to note with flywheel calculated figures, we have done alot of testing a few years back to quieten down some forum talk of rolling road being more accurate than others.....


we tested wheel figures with no glue on the rollers, then put spray glue on the rollers, the wheel figures changed by 6bhp, the calculated flywheel figure on a maha rolling road saw 0.5bhp difference accross the run this was down to the fact that the maha dyno will work out the transmission losses.

were not saying that the dyno dynamics are a poor inaccurate rolling road because they arn't they are a well prices rolling road that works well.

Coastdown method for transmission losses can be influenced so easily by the user. Most new dyno's now purchased are DD as they are seen as industry standard for power comparrison and are a good deal cheaer than the Maha and in many cases offer better load holding due to roller traction.

 

[Bazzon]

Who says its a 197? I am talking about the ph1 172s though.

PH1 172.

Catcams 420s
matched inlets
Powerflow SS exhaust + decat
Relocated open induction behind headlight

 

[kevo66]

Who says its a 197? I am talking about the ph1 172s though.

AHHHH, now I see!! You probaly would get an easy 8BHP from matching then!!

 

[btaser2]

PH1 172.

Catcams 420s
matched inlets
Powerflow SS exhaust + decat
Relocated open induction behind headlight

According to this dyno result, probably you have done something wrong. It is so obvious that ppl get min 10bhps from cams but it seems that you got only around 7 or 8 maybe even less cause you mentioned that you also have matched inlets, ss, decat and intake!

 

[Bazzon]

According to this dyno result, probably you have done something wrong. It is so obvious that ppl get min 10bhps from cams but it seems that you got only around 7 or 8.

Well you dont understand what those cams are then.

420s are a standard cam basically.

 

[btaser2]

AHHHH, now I see!! You probaly would get an easy 8BHP from matching then!!

for sure mate!

 

[btaser2]

Well you dont understand what those cams are then.

420s are a standard cam basically.

The gains are still too less in your car. I'll post my results after I get my re-map and you will understand what I mean plus I don't have matched inlets.

 

[broster@JAM-Sport]

Coastdown method for transmission losses can be influenced so easily by the user. Most new dyno's now purchased are DD as they are seen as industry standard for power comparrison and are a good deal cheaer than the Maha and in many cases offer better load holding due to roller traction.

i agree, but thats in the ethics of the rolling road operator, my point was that the coats down method is a good way of working transmission losses.

the dyno dynamics rollers are alot cheaper yes, hence probably why so many companies go for them.

 

[Bazzon]

Sure Matt or paul will explain to you.

can not rmember exactly what pauls PH1 made standard on his rollers IIRC, it was 160ish there fore our car is soing a +20 gain, which is what ia said you would expect from them mods. If you want to be stuck in your ways feel free.

All im saying is that we have had a car running the mods you say and it was mapped by Paul, and we saw 20 bhp gains over a standard car.
check the outside temperature on the RR graph aswell,

If you really believe you can get +30 over a standard car feel free.

 

[btaser2]

What I'm trying to say is that power gains are not so easy but these types of cars react pretty good and efficient to these simple but very effective mods. And ofcourse it varies from car to car too.

And its not my way and I don't get stuck in it. Its just a very simple and usual discussion we make as mature ppl in a democratic platform. If you don't feel comfortable then feel free

 

[RSTuning]

i agree, but thats in the ethics of the rolling road operator, my point was that the coats down method is a good way of working transmission losses.

the dyno dynamics rollers are alot cheaper yes, hence probably why so many companies go for them.

I looked at many dyno's including maha but the better choice IMO was the DD. I even upgraded my 2WD to the 4WD with DD. I really was not impresses with the maha and to be quite honest some of the figures you see from them are laughable.

For me and many others maha are just an expensive brand name which can be out performed by the competition.

 

[trile]

@ BTASER - LOL - ROFLMAO

don' tase me bro..

30 bhp from the simplest mods..lol
If that's true, than add ITBs and that's almost 300 bhp... lol

c'mon...

 

[leeds_182]

Good results Kev.

 

[TooneySonic]

Opps forgot to add the custom re-map and the muffler!

Decat
Intake
Matched Inlets
70mm widened exhaust pipes
Muffler
Re-map

=

Gains are almost 30bhp. And ofcourse if you have a healthy car!

pmsl

what have you done just added up all the "quoted" gains by tuning websites?

Schrick cams, ITG panel filter, decat, matched inlets and a custom map by Paul has seen me 20bhp better off from where i started after the best part of £1500

dont get held up with peak outputs with cams (i gained 12bhp peak) but consider the power over the entire rev range. for instance a cam'd car will hold its peak power all the way to a higher rpm limit (usually 8000rpm), whereas a standard car will lose power after 6500rpm. at 7000rpm i was making 20bhp more than before

i do agree that the best vfm mod is a custom map which on its own gained 8bhp and 10 lb/ft of torque before i did anything else to the car

 

[kevo66]

Tooney, as you say mate power trhoughout the revs is very important, mine is a peak of nearly 16BHP but its well up throughout the range and the torque is ap a fair whack too, from 3k right to the death its up nearly 18Ftls, I just wish I could get a better pic of the graphs!!

Paul, are you able to attach these?! As its a fine bit of mapping we should show it off better than my shitty pic can manage!!

 

[RSTuning]

 

[RSTuning]

Attached

 

[kevo66]

Attached

Top stuff mate, now thats more like it!!

 

[Andyman]

Decat, intake, 70mm widened pipes and a muffler will give you avrg. 8bhp
Matched inlets will give you at least 10bhp clean.
And a custom Re-map will give you an extra 10bhp after these mods for sure.

Where's the optimistic part in it?

You cant add each mods potential BHP gain and come up with a added together figure lol

Its dosent work like that mate lol

 

[deaeno]

According to that graph you've lost nearly 50PS i.e. 25% through the drivetrain. I'm sorry but thats just not possible. Based on your wheel figure of circa 152.5PS an approximate fly figure based on a 17% loss is 178.4bhp.

If anything I'd say that was low and you really should be seeing 181 - 186 bhp depending on how 'strong' your engine is.

Try a different rolling road!

Cheers
M

1.) Maha 3000 LPS measures diferent as DD
2.) with professional accelerometer my 0-60 is 6,92, do you think it´s possible with 178 bhp with car that weigh 1355kg ?? I don´t think so.
(car was weight on weighing machine, sure with me)

 

[deaeno]

depends what rollind road it was done on, on a maha rolling road such as our transmission losses are calculated on the run down, where as a dyno dynamics "guesses" the transmission losses.

so for example the graph with high transmission losses which you say isn't possible, if it was on a maha rolling road the low wheel figure could be explained by a sticking brake caliper, then the high losses would be seen on the run down giving an acurate flywheel figure, where as a dyno dynamics wouldnt see this and would give an inaccurate flywheel figure.

also things to note with flywheel calculated figures, we have done alot of testing a few years back to quieten down some forum talk of rolling road being more accurate than others.....


we tested wheel figures with no glue on the rollers, then put spray glue on the rollers, the wheel figures changed by 6bhp, the calculated flywheel figure on a maha rolling road saw 0.5bhp difference accross the run this was down to the fact that the maha dyno will work out the transmission losses.

were not saying that the dyno dynamics are a poor inaccurate rolling road because they arn't they are a well prices rolling road that works well.

Fully agree with Broster :approve:

 

[Naith]

1.) Maha 3000 LPS measures diferent as DD
2.) with professional accelerometer my 0-60 is 6,92, do you think it´s possible with 178 bhp with car that weigh 1355kg ?? I don´t think so.
(car was weight on weighing machine, sure with me)

Fully agree with Broster :approve:

agree all u want with whoever, but u cannot argue with what icarus has said...he runs clios in a race team, ur only setting yourself up to get shot down

 

[TooneySonic]

haha, matt will be along for ownage shortly i reckon!

 

[deaeno]

You have 152PS atht eh wheels and this one has 166HP ATW

But on different RR it´s not applicable comparison :nono:
Try different RR

Look at Zygalski RR result, his loss is 47,2 my 46,9... and every RR result from Maha it´s like that... cheers

 

[Bazzon]

agree all u want with whoever, but u cannot argue with what icarus has said...he runs clios in a race team, ur only setting yourself up to get shot down

Lol idd, you can agrue/agree with who ever you want but whenever matt is involved i know who i believe and trust

 

[broster@JAM-Sport]

agree all u want with whoever, but u cannot argue with what icarus has said...he runs clios in a race team, ur only setting yourself up to get shot down

Granted Icarus (matt) is a very helpful and knowledgeable guy but surely people who operate a maha rolling road and use other rolling roads, did a lot of looking in to them recently know a fair bit about how the losses are worked out, which is what deaeno agrees with.... im sure even icarus would agree with why the losses are as they were reading how the maha works it out.

 

[deaeno]

agree all u want with whoever, but u cannot argue with what icarus has said...he runs clios in a race team, ur only setting yourself up to get shot down

That was not addressed to u, and also not to Icarus :rasp:

 

[Fred@BTM]

did you know you (Fred's fact of the day coming up) you won't win a race on a rolling road?

 

[Fred@BTM]

oh and just for fun

 

[cupholder]

cant see why people get all het up about rolling roads its just banter for pub kudos. do the mods you want set it up and if you like the way it goes compared to before then happy days, fair enough having it set up on a rr but its hardly normal running conditions so why not have set ups done as the car drives atleast its in its natural environment i,e on the road rather than sucking in hot and s--ty air from a dingee w/shop blown by a big fan
at the cost of a small cheap hatchback. waste of money in my opinion
and rolling roads are oh so accurate not, good if your setting up a group a monster track car with no standard fit parts but even then you still gonna get more beneficial results by road testing with the correct equipment and tweaking accordingly, just my 2 penith but for a reasonbly factory spec car why waste your time and money when you could put it in the tank and enjoy driving the thing who cares for pub kudos because thats all it is .

 

[Andyman]

1.) Maha 3000 LPS measures diferent as DD
2.) with professional accelerometer my 0-60 is 6,92, do you think it´s possible with 178 bhp with car that weigh 1355kg ?? I don´t think so.
(car was weight on weighing machine, sure with me)

Thats about right. Renault quoted 0-60 between 6.9 - 7.2 depending on model. If you have roughly 10 bhp over that then that 0-60 wont be far out at all

1355kg's tho... .geeezzz whats going on there :quiet: