BMW M4; S1000 RR
I would tbh
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RS Monaco Clio surprise (Renault Clio R.S.16)
- Thread starter Gaz_
- Start date
182 FF
Surely that's the risk when buying any ~£35k car from new? The hope would be that being a limited run may protect this slightly but I guess there's no guarantee.
massiveCoRbyn
ClioSport Club Member
Several
I expect this will be produced in very limited numbers and cost a lot of money for a Clio. That won't matter though, it never does with these kind of cars. It will probably end up being one of those collectable little oddities.
It looks a cool car but really it just shows how badly they missed with the 200t/Trophy in my view. A manual box on the 1.6T and the arches/wing off this and the RS Clio probably would have been a huge hit.
It looks a cool car but really it just shows how badly they missed with the 200t/Trophy in my view. A manual box on the 1.6T and the arches/wing off this and the RS Clio probably would have been a huge hit.
Poopensharten
ClioSport Club Member
Golf R
....people that lease them and fully intend on handing them back?
MarkCup
ClioSport Club Member
With Renault's lease prices?
Wasn't the 200T something like £400+ per month?
Wasn't the 200T something like £400+ per month?
I think the people who'll buy this at whatever price it is, will no doubt have a R26.R and Trophy-R probably sat in a collection somewhere.
Also 'if' i gets put into production do you think we'll see like perhaps more mad Hatchbacks like this in this segment ?
Also 'if' i gets put into production do you think we'll see like perhaps more mad Hatchbacks like this in this segment ?
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The Psychedelic Socialist
ClioSport Club Member
Maybe I'm just out of touch, but this is the thing I can't really get my head around. Who collects moderately special / extreme hot-hatches?
If I'm after a single car to do it all, I'll look at a hot-hatch (hello Golf R next week...).
If I've already got a daily then I'd be looking for something a bit more special ; Cayman / Lotus / Caterham / 4C / S2000 / MX5 even etc.
Dropping £35k+ on a less practical hot hatch just seems like something no-one would do.
I'm clearly wrong though as the Clubsport is already sold out...
Poopensharten
ClioSport Club Member
Golf R
Christ knows... if it was a reflection on how it was marketed then probably dearer!
Stefan.
ClioSport Club Member
This is not your average person with a daily and a weekend car, sure there will be some who buy this as their only car but..
Most will be bought by collectors amongst all their other desirable cars, your cosworths, porches etc that will rise in value, and just to say 'i have one of those'
Most will be bought and stored away sadly
If i come into money i would buy one!
Knuckles
ClioSport Admin
I wasn't around here when the Clio v6 was released, but what kind of reception did that get?
"A £28k 182 with a Laguna engine?! Who's going to buy that?"
Or was it generally accepted as a brilliant idea?
"A £28k 182 with a Laguna engine?! Who's going to buy that?"
Or was it generally accepted as a brilliant idea?
Darren S
ClioSport Club Member
Make something special enough and people will buy it. However, the term 'special' is open to interpretation and is purely in the eye of the purchaser.
I like quirkiness. I like random changes to a car - simply because some design team/engineer thought that it was a good idea to do so. The Clio Mk2 floor-pan for example. Let's make the boot area different to every other model within the Clio range - so that the spare wheel well is now occupied by a backbox. They didn't need to do that, but they did. Same with the R26R having the optional roll-cage and perspex rear window - because obviously the latter item is paramount to weight saving overall? :smile:
I like features on cars that buck the trend of the time too. Manual gearboxes will always be a plus point for me, despite every logical factor saying the contrary. Quicker changes, more accessible performance - yet the crude and tested method of engaging different cogs yourself is massively appealing.
As time progresses, I see such one-off features becoming more rare. Manufacturers need to make money and in order to do so, will appeal to the masses and their wants more than a hardcore minority. Everyone with a passion for cars would like their hot hatches to be 2-door. Yet such vehicles hurt sales in comparison to the same hot hatch with cleverly 'hidden' 4 doors - "what about the kids?". Same with the rise of the performance estate. Audi have long produced powerhouse Avants, but many others have stayed well clear. BMW made a test-bed M3 and Ford now has their Focus ST estate. Owners want their tick-boxes 'ticked' in terms of driving involvement - yet they realise that their partners and family also take precedence.
I like quirkiness. I like random changes to a car - simply because some design team/engineer thought that it was a good idea to do so. The Clio Mk2 floor-pan for example. Let's make the boot area different to every other model within the Clio range - so that the spare wheel well is now occupied by a backbox. They didn't need to do that, but they did. Same with the R26R having the optional roll-cage and perspex rear window - because obviously the latter item is paramount to weight saving overall? :smile:
I like features on cars that buck the trend of the time too. Manual gearboxes will always be a plus point for me, despite every logical factor saying the contrary. Quicker changes, more accessible performance - yet the crude and tested method of engaging different cogs yourself is massively appealing.
As time progresses, I see such one-off features becoming more rare. Manufacturers need to make money and in order to do so, will appeal to the masses and their wants more than a hardcore minority. Everyone with a passion for cars would like their hot hatches to be 2-door. Yet such vehicles hurt sales in comparison to the same hot hatch with cleverly 'hidden' 4 doors - "what about the kids?". Same with the rise of the performance estate. Audi have long produced powerhouse Avants, but many others have stayed well clear. BMW made a test-bed M3 and Ford now has their Focus ST estate. Owners want their tick-boxes 'ticked' in terms of driving involvement - yet they realise that their partners and family also take precedence.
172
I'm trying to work out if you are a troll, deluded or have never seen a trophy let alone been in one. I suspect all are true but can only suggest you contact Jeremy T at Renault and get him to take you for a ride. I like the fact that they look like a normal Clio but go like hell. Have no arch gap and extra grippy tyres and a gearbox which in auto still holds in gear when you want it to. I'm well happy with my Trophy and I suspect most owners are as well.
Martin_172
ClioSport Club Member
see if this is going ahead and ill have a think about what its worth!
realnumber 1
ClioSport Club Member
I hope it comes true this car, really do...
At the moment it's still a running concept full of lush components to make it work... Hence the potential limited numbers and predicted high prices.
But imo they'd make far more money by cutting a few corners here and there and giving 90% of what it is now and selling cheaper by the bucket load...
At the moment it's still a running concept full of lush components to make it work... Hence the potential limited numbers and predicted high prices.
But imo they'd make far more money by cutting a few corners here and there and giving 90% of what it is now and selling cheaper by the bucket load...
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Knuckles
ClioSport Admin
I hope they don't pull a Honda and make a car that looks nothing like the epic concept.
BMW M4; S1000 RR
when when did Honda do that?
Knuckles
ClioSport Admin
Wing aside, the concept had a cracking stance with its moulded flared arches, the bumpers and vents worked brilliantly and there's subtle changes to the splitter and diffuser.
The production model got awkward stuck on arches which didn't go with the lines of the car or give it any presence, the bumpers look a bit half arsed imo and that wing looks like a proper cop out
massiveCoRbyn
ClioSport Club Member
Several
Steady on, I'm allowed an opinion.
You're right, I haven't sat in a Trophy. I have, however, driven a 200t and thought it was distinctly average. The Trophy is apparently better but I still think it misses the point. Renault tried to appeal to a broader audience but appear to have largely alienated their core fans. Thankfully for B-segment hot hatch fans, Ford very much "got it" and produced the car people wanted. As I say, with a manual box and the styling from the RS16, Renault likely would have had a huge hit on their hands with the 200t/Trophy.
If you like your car then good luck to you, but it doesn't mean that I have to agree with you.
Knuckles
ClioSport Admin
This has been my gripe from the start with the mk4 200.
The hot Clio recipe always been big engine, little car, swollen arches and performance chassis.
Putting a small capacity turbo engine* into a standard car, changing the bumpers and slapping on a few badges is the way to make a warm hatch/ Renault GT. If they'd have called it anything other than a renaultsport Clio, job would have been a good un.
Call it a 5 gtt, or a Clio renaultsport gt or whatever. But banging a powerful engine into a standard car does not make a hot hatch to me.
Now make it lairy on the outside to go with the performance and handling like this rs16 and you're onto something, it doesn't even need the Meg engine, just lairy looks to differentiate it from the regular models and a manual option.
I know this wasn't possible, hence the existence of the 200t but that's just my two penneth in a slight rant.
*i know small capacity turbos are the way of the world now but still.
Happy would be an understatement, for me personally, I feel its so far ahead of the fiesta st I almost brought.
There's always folk jumping on the band wagon and saying the clio is spoilt by its gear box, but it seems like some people are actually ignoring the negative press of the 200 , and giving the trophy a chance, because they seem to be gaining some favour, there's always a few people on the Renault sport forum ordering them. My advice to anyone unconvinced would be go and try for your self, test drive a trophy at length and take it to some of your favourite roads that you know really well, to see what it can do.
David
For me the Trophy is the car the 200 should have been in the first place.
I agree that renault have alienated many of their core fans, but I would like to think they would be loyal enough to at least try the car for themselves before judging them.
I also agree that ford " got it ", the daft thing is the Trophy is comfortably ahead or better in every aspect of performance, and you would think that would make it a big hit considering its a hot hatch.........but no, the fact the ST is cheaper and gives you big smiles, seems to matter more to more people.
David
Stefan.
ClioSport Club Member
The biggest problem for me is the 200t/trophy really look nothing special, the alloys, the whole package, just nothing excites me about them
This rs16 with the wider arches, wing, engine if goes ahead, has got that something about it
Even going back to the 182 trophy, it got the bucket seats, special dampers, v6 spoiler etc which is still talked about today!
But the 200t/trophy just look so bland..
This rs16 with the wider arches, wing, engine if goes ahead, has got that something about it
Even going back to the 182 trophy, it got the bucket seats, special dampers, v6 spoiler etc which is still talked about today!
But the 200t/trophy just look so bland..
And that sir is the Renaultsport way. They have sort learned a bit by launching the lateset Meg's and the 200T with the cup suspension option from day one, but the 200T was such a departure from previous hot Renaultsport Clio's that it really needed to be an amazing car from the off. The body kit and spoiler would have helped but TBH I still struggle to sport a 1*2 from a regular mk2 in passing.
botfch
ClioSport Club Member
Clio 182
But that's the whole point of a hot hatch...fun!
Performance means f all especially when most hot hatch road drivers could be beaten by an experienced driver in a much slower car.
People buy based on looks and how it feels to drive not the 0.2s its quicker to 60 etc.
James363
ClioSport Club Member
Clio 172 Cup
I didn't feel very involved when I tested the Trophy, and the steering didn't feel as direct as I had hoped, although I did love the gearbox. That said, it could have been the novelty factor, as I have not driven many cars with paddles. The car didn't feel very fast either, although I appreciate the figures. I think I would buy one if I was looking in this sector, simply because using the paddles made me smile, and it's something very different to my previous experiences and other cars in the sector. I did however hate the stupid snorts on the over run, they are so synthetic it's unbelievable.
BMW M4; S1000 RR
People arguing over cars they don't own. Welcome to the internet.
MarcB
ClioSport Club Member
Too Many
:up:
Chris V6 255
ClioSport Club Member
V6 255, 182 Trophy
In a thread about a car that no one can own........ currently [emoji23]
I wish I could like the RS.16. But I've never owned one so I can't have an opinion on it
if performance doesn't matter why even buy any hot hatch, train to become an experienced driver and buy the slower car then, it will save you a fortune.!
Some people like to say performance doesn't matter, ( usually the ones who own cars with less of it, lol)but you cant generalise like that, yes you are correct for many people but you are wrong for many more. People have different priorities.
Performance always sells cars though, people read the numbers and it gets the interest raised, why else would every new hot hatch have more power than the last model, its a hot hatch war right now with bhp and ring times, helping to sell cars to thousands of enthusiasts all over the world. Nobody buys a hatch that laps the ring in 10 minutes anymore wether its fun or not.
Perhaps I'm unusual in the fact that performance does matter more to me, its strange though because most hot hatches I meet at the traffic lights definitely seem to enjoy a quick but safe traffic light g.p. There's nothing wrong with that as long as its safe, it doesn't make you a boy racer, the thrill of acceleration Is a large part of the fun of owning a fast car.
Fact is I'm a very experienced driver in cars on track and in karts, so i could drive a relatively slow car quite quickly, so maybe power and performance shouldn't matter much to me, but quite the opposite is true.
ultimate Fun or ultimate performance ?....well ill take performance every day. I understand people are different though.
Fact is we are splitting hairs really, a fiesta ST is a very small percentage more fun, and a clio trophy is a very small percentage more capable.
The ford seems to appeal to the majority, the clio to the minority but both are brilliant, just in slightly different ways.
David
massiveCoRbyn
ClioSport Club Member
Several
That's the purpose of the internet isn't it? Arguing about everything.
Performance is only part of the equation though. Whilst it does matter, it isn't the be-all and end-all for many people. How the car makes you feel can be just as important, or the steering feel, or the ride, or the looks, or the way the engine delivers it's power, or any number of other things. My everyday car is a Golf R, which is devastatingly effective when you look at it from purely a performance perspective, but it has about as much personality as an empty carrier bag. It suits my needs because it is a very good blend of performance but also good at doing the mundane stuff, which I do a lot of. I drove every C-segment hot hatch under the sun and some of the slower options were a more exciting drive than the Golf, but probably would have been more tiresome to live with, so I went with the VW. I could also argue that my 172 is more fun than the Golf. It's light, noisy, the throttle response is better, the whole experience is just more raw and less synthesised. The ultimate performance is much lower, of course it is, but the Clio is a more fun car to drive in my view. I don't doubt that many people would disagree with that though.
One lad I know who is into his Vauxhalls is all about speed. He doesn't really care how well it handles, so long as it can batter cars that cost ten times as much. He drove a 320bhp Corsa C that wheel spun constantly but, when it was up and running, was a rocket ship. He's just bought an Astra VXR and no doubt that will end up the same. That doesn't really appeal to me, as I prefer more of a B-road weapon, so like good response, nice steering feel, usable ride etc. Ultimately, everyone has different tastes and expectations. The MK4 RenaultSport Clio will undoubtedly have it's fans, but I don't think anyone could argue that Renault didn't upset a lot of their hardcore followers by trying to make the RS Clio more grown-up. It was precisely because it wasn't grown-up that people liked the old ones so much, and the reason that people like the current Fiesta ST so much. Is it a bad car? No, because it isn't really possible to buy a bad car anymore. Is it a great car like the RenaultSport Clios of old? Many would argue not, and that's because great means different things to different people.
Anyway, this isn't really a thread to bash the existing cars, but to bash a car that we can't buy.
172
Perhaps the way forward for cliosport is to ditch this forum and have a local monthly meet, like the Ford rs owners club, then people could discuss cars etc in real life. The obvious down side to this is stars with golf r,s could not attend as they would be voicing opinions at the golf vw club meet. Sounds like win win imo
Clio 220 Trophy, 172
I owned a 197 for 5 years and decided it was time to change and thought I'd go and try a 220Trophy, me and the missus loved the look especially with the full leather. From the minute I got into it on the test drive and put my foot down I was sold. This car is leagues ahead of anything RenaultSport have produced previously, it blows 197s/200 mk3s into the weeds around tracks and the drive home is far more refined and less tiresome.
Don't get me wrong I loved my 197 but how anyone can say a 220 is not a fun car with a manual sequential gearbox is madness.
Don't get me wrong I loved my 197 but how anyone can say a 220 is not a fun car with a manual sequential gearbox is madness.
Knuckles
ClioSport Admin
Isn't it an electronic dual clutch rather than a manual sequential?
Yeah, it's not actually a 'proper' sequential.
