Silverstone this weekend Clio 182 lost...

[mr_merc]

Okay, that was the point of the thread anyway. Id understand the straight, but beating it on the corners, coilovers or not, I was surprised. The 182 is something Ive seen corner quickly, and if its anything like the 172 Ive followed around a track then you can understand my surprise as the gt has a badly designed chassis anyway, its not just suspension that can cure handling.

In which case that would mean in terms of dynamics a gt is likely to beat a ctr and all manner of stuff on a track, you can see why I questioned it!

 

[unofficialPete]

Quote: Originally posted by mr_merc on 07 September 2004


On the contrary paul, I wasnt looking for flaming, it was a genuine question. I didnt want to discuss it on the psc site as youd get the usual bigging up of a gt (as well you know, btw what would you have said to me if I said Id beaten a ctr on a track?), so I asked a reasonable question on here of people who know what a 182 is and isnt capable of.

I couldnt understand how, as msouthall describes it, "a 3k sh*tbox" would beat a 182 around the corners, and lose above 80 mph which is where the 2.0 engine should have a higher top end. I thought this was a interesting thread, and for what its worth I agree with the comment that its good a 3k car can get near a 14k car.








Hey I remember you lol, that was Mike172Sports car! I was all over the back in my 1.4 just didnt have any power left out of the corners to over take, a Gto stormed passed, then you and two Renault 21 Turbos!

You were probbly held up but around a few corners I managed to keep up



Took a reality check when Ad172 caught me up very very very quickly in comparison in his 172!

 

[-Leigh-]

Quote: Originally posted by RobFenn on 07 September 2004

With the exception of xzibit (who cant appreciate what good dynamics are) the Punto drivers have been fine on this thread, no need for Cliosporters to get defensive!

Im also a Clio driver! You see, there is this thing called sarcasm, and........

I know Puntos are sh*t, I own one! Just trying to get across that for the money, the GTs a bargain, and not far off the 182 performance wise. (Apart from handling)

 

[hendry]

let my Japan Mod. YRV play with u next time

 

[RobFenn]

Quote: Originally posted by mr_merc on 07 September 2004


Okay, that was the point of the thread anyway. Id understand the straight, but beating it on the corners, coilovers or not, I was surprised. The 182 is something Ive seen corner quickly, and if its anything like the 172 Ive followed around a track then you can understand my surprise as the gt has a badly designed chassis anyway, its not just suspension that can cure handling.

In which case that would mean in terms of dynamics a gt is likely to beat a ctr and all manner of stuff on a track, you can see why I questioned it!




Grip is not handling my good man!

 

[Lagerlout]

Im not getting into the handling debate, becuase it entirely subjective and is very difficult to quantify. Evo tell us that the 182 is one of the best handling front wheel drive cars to date (apart from the Williams/teg before anyone jumps on their high horse). So we believe it. But is a 182 in my hands a fantastic handling car capable of embrrassing exotic machinery? Probably not.

Im just your average everyday driver, who know his limits. If Im out having a blast round my favourite country roads and a Punto wotsit driven to within an inch of its life overtakes me, so what?. Does that make the Punto one of the best handling FWD cars?? No. It means the driver is more willing to push the limits of his car. Nothing more.

The bit that is blatantly wrong imho, is the Punto overtaking past 80 mph. I just cant see it. By then Im fast approaching fourth gear, and fourth is excellent in the 172/182, a very strong gear that pulls hard upto 110 ish. (Just fifth that lets it down a bit!)

He either let off, or wasnt really trying in the first place.....

 

[y0z2a]

I know the guy who has posted this topic, and he is a top chap and some of you are acting like prize idiots.

/y0z

 

[Chad]

Quote: Originally posted by lagerlout1 on 07 September 2004


Im not getting into the handling debate, becuase it entirely subjective and is very difficult to quantify. Evo tell us that the 182 is one of the best handling front wheel drive cars to date (apart from the Williams/teg before anyone jumps on their high horse). So we believe it. But is a 182 in my hands a fantastic handling car capable of embrrassing exotic machinery? Probably not.

Im just your average everyday driver, who know his limits. If Im out having a blast round my favourite country roads and a Punto wotsit driven to within an inch of its life overtakes me, so what?. Does that make the Punto one of the best handling FWD cars?? No. It means the driver is more willing to push the limits of his car. Nothing more.

The bit that is blatantly wrong imho, is the Punto overtaking past 80 mph. I just cant see it. By then Im fast approaching fourth gear, and fourth is excellent in the 172/182, a very strong gear that pulls hard upto 110 ish. (Just fifth that lets it down a bit!)

He either let off, or wasnt really trying in the first place.....

spot on, thats what I was saying in my post earlier. My mate has a Punto GT RRD at over 170bhp and my 172 started to leave it once I got into 3rd. Up till then there was nothing in it, also the Punto definatly FEELS quicker because of torque and the way the power is developed

 

[unofficialPete]

Quote: Originally posted by y0z2a on 07 September 2004

I know the guy who has posted this topic, and he is a top chap and some of you are acting like prize idiots.

/y0z

Agreed, I was there so enough of the I think this car would do this or that.

My 1.4 held the back of the car in question for 1-2 laps and on a few corners I carried more speed in and out.

 

[y0z2a]

Quote: Originally posted by BluePete on 07 September 2004
Quote: Originally posted by y0z2a on 07 September 2004I know the guy who has posted this topic, and he is a top chap and some of you are acting like prize idiots.

/y0z[/QUOTE] Agreed, I was there so enough of the I think this car would do this or that.My 1.4 held the back of the car in question for 1-2 laps and on a few corners I carried more speed in and out.


thank you.

/y0z

 

[y0z2a]

Quote: Originally posted by Mike172sport on 06 September 2004
If he was on about my car (182 wheels), Im not suprised, I totally sh*t it!! and let everything pass me
1st time I have ever been on a track, look forward to doing it again and maybe try harder and not worry so much....and yes before you say it Im a PUSSY!!!


you are big one at that ;-)

he heh ehe he heeeee *stops wheezing*

/y0z

 

[Lagerlout]

Quote: Originally posted by BluePete on 07 September 2004

Quote: Originally posted by y0z2a on 07 September 2004

I know the guy who has posted this topic, and he is a top chap and some of you are acting like prize idiots.

/y0z

Agreed, I was there so enough of the I think this car would do this or that.

My 1.4 held the back of the car in question for 1-2 laps and on a few corners I carried more speed in and out.

Fair enough. But the guy who posted the topic was questioning the outcome himself, was he not??

All Im trying to do is rationalise in simple terms how the Punto (on papaer a slower car) could have overcome the 182. Im not dissing the guy, the car itself or anything else. He came on here looking for answers and possibly some explanations and thats all Im trying to give him!!

 

[Toypop]

I have read all the posts and my conclusion is as follows:

Mr Mercs original question was quite a fair one and it seems that this thread is far longer than it needed to be!


The simple truth and answer to Mr Mercs question is that the original story that Mr Merc heard/read was false or rather had been spiced up somewhat.


The truth was that the car involved was a 172 being driven by someone on his first track day and lapping at similar speeds to a 1.4 Clio.

Perhaps the person that spiced up the story should feel rather embarrassed... care to name him Mr Merc?

 

[Tucks]

Mike172sports dad can drive his car like a legend though!,He lost me-the punto didnt.

[Edited by Tucks on 07 September 2004 at 1:23pm]

 

[unofficialPete]

I was hoping hed use some funny gas on me

 

[mr_merc]

@ yoz: thanks lol, when are you doing your next track day? Perhaps email me details to mailto:mr_merc@hotmail.com">mr_merc@hotmail.com if you know of anything coming up?

@ toypop: having read it all through it would appear that said car was not a 182 for a start, and indeed was a 172 that was lapping at the same sort of speed as a 1.4. So I think that says quite a bit, thanks for clearing that up. The person that commented that is in the thread:

http://www.puntosports.co.uk/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=28827&highlighthttp://www.puntosports.co.uk/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=28827&highlight=

If you fancy reading it, amongst other things this was said by said person, who is the member msouthall who commented in this thread earlier on:

"they may be quicker on a 1/4 mile, but they arent round a track. went to silverstone today, and had 20minutes track time. It was awesome, you really do get a massive buzz.

anyway this 182, was in front of me, i was on his arse through a corner, came to a straight, he pulls to the right which is track day indication that i can overtake on the left but he was defintely still going for it, and i edged past him at about 80mph. was proper chuffed, i carried on, but he went slower through the corners. "

I wasnt flaming, I was just struggling to understand how on a track any punto gt would beat a std 182, even with an average driver. On the road its a bit different as everyone drives to how safe they feel, and so it becomes more subjective, perhaps less so on a track. I read on psc the initial post as being "182 isnt as quick as a punto gt around corners" and then "above 80 mph I overtook", both comments surprised me.

 

[Lee]

What few of you seem to have noticed is it wasnt a 182, it was a 172, most likely Mikes who was out for the first time on track and taking it easy. We watched from the sidelines and he did take it nice and steady. Plus hes had a fair bit of work done to the car and it needs a remap to sort it out properly.

When I went out I gave it death, and happily hounded a CTR the entire session. The only car to fly past me was a Makkinen Edition Evo, and I was passed by an Evo 8.

 

[unofficialPete]

also note: 1.4 Clio kept up with Punto Gt through a few corners after being overtaken on the straight

 

[Paul_P1]

Ive read some of this thread and havent noticed anyone highlighting the fact the 172 driver just wasnt pushing it as much as the Punto! On the track day briefings Ive attended Ive always been told that if I wanted to let a car past you have to move to the right lift off the throttle for a second, then let the car through, seems to me exactly what happened in this case.

If I was buying a car for the track and had a £3K budget it wouldnt be a Punto, it would probably be either a 16v or Williams!

 

[bsimmer3000]

are these puntos turbo charged? as i over took one last night on a straight and im sure i heard a dump valve go off as he was changing gear.

 

[y0z2a]

yes they are.

/y0z

 

[Mike@Rentech]

Quote: Originally posted by Tucks on 07 September 2004

Mike172sports dad can drive his car like a legend though!,He lost me-the punto didnt.

[Edited by Tucks on 07 September 2004 at 1:23pm]

Yeah my old mans a sh*t hot driver, he said he took it easy as he didnt have a feel for the car!

Will tell him about this thread!

 

[Lee]

I had a chat with your dad. Top bloke. I dont think Id let mine out on track in mine though, hes used to his lardy Celica.

 

[Toypop]

So is anyone going to post the true version of events in the Punto forum thread and shame this chap in front of his peers?

 

[y0z2a]

no we are not.

/y0z

 

[jonnyboy]

this is a tired old argument that modified car owners use. Im pretty sure you could get a punto gt and if you mod it enough it will outperform a 182 in every way, speed handling etc. but the fact of the matter is that youve got a 10 year old car thats difficult to insure and has cost you a small fortune to create (and in a lot of cases it looks crap too)

If you had the cash you could mod a suzuki swift to outperform a 182, this whole threads a bit pointless really

 

[mr_merc]

Nope, because Ive already been insulted for saying what I thought of it all and as such it turned into a personal argument about me saying he was a bullsh*tter, joker and back tracking and him saying I was a tw*t and someone should punch me hard in the face. It was deleted to say the least lol.

Its pretty pointless you going on there and saying what you think happened as youll just be perceived as sh*t stirring as youre from here. Better just to leave it. As said, this wasnt started as a flaming war, I just thought it was a bit off considering what Id read and raced on a track. Perhaps invite a few gts on the next 172/182 track day? Id come along, be good fun!

 

[Toypop]

Funnily enough jonnyboy I know a guy with a supercharged Swift that would eat a 182 for breakfast!