So What Is The Best Drive?

[2 live]

This is bloody marvellous this. Lol.
A very entertaining half hour of reading.

2live, I don't understand what your problem is with steve's review? Tbh it was very good. He hasn't commented on any car that he has not had a good drive in and I would completely agree about the 200. Epic car.

Whether outright b road pace is more fun, I'm not sure. IMO, I think the 172 cup is more fun, being a less accomplished car makes it more entertaining.

Williams bhp/tonne - 155
172 cup bhp/tonne - 170.85

If the Williams' 0-100 is 5 seconds quicker than quoted, that makes it quicker than an R26.R and only 0.6 slower than a mk2 FRS. Righto.

problem with his review? none other than the fact he seems to change his mind every other post. 1st the vee is best cos its fastest, it owns every other rs. then the 200 cup is best cos it goes round a roundabout a bit quicker, then the trophy is best cos its cheaper lol. he cant comment on 2 of the best, williams and 172 cup, cos he hasnt driven any. thats like saying the beach at blackpool is the best in the world, but i havent been on the 1 here or ther so cant comment so will just omit them. lol


as for book figures. do you believe everything you read? the 0-60 times of the williams is booked at something like 7.7, the cup at something like 6.8. iv never had a prob matching the cups times. even timed at 7.01 by pgti at one of their forum shootouts back in the day, at brunters so shite surface for launch, with their top of the range timing equipment. russ16v and chris n nic were also there that day.

sometimes manufacturers mislead peopl too ya know. most people think the 172 is so called cos thats the bhp output lol. more like 165 from a 'good' one. williams es put out 150, more often than not from a 'bad' one. they almost always put out a little more than that 155 being more likely.

 

[jack_kemp]

Fair comment I suppose.

He didn't change his mind though, he said the 200 cup was the best overall but the trophy was better VFM.

I know that manufacturers exaggerate their figures etc but you can't account for each individual example having more/less power.

 

[2 live]

PMSL at that video. What's the purpose of that then? Look at me stabbing the throttle on & off on the way to the apex? Awesome

like i said. was a test drive. you can set the car up with the throttle and weight transfer sometimes you know. later on i was doing it moreso to try and get the back end to step out a little. it didnt happen tho.

 

[kev182cup]

you ever drove a 205gti 2live? whats better against the williams? never driven a williams to compare : (.

 

[2 live]

yes i have mate. not far off tbh in terms of fun. maybe a little twitchy. i always prefered the 309 gti tho tbh. a lot more stable. probably due to the longer wheelbase. still both very good cars to drive.

 

[kev182cup]

yes i have mate. not far off tbh in terms of fun. maybe a little twitchy. i always prefered the 309 gti tho tbh. a lot more stable. probably due to the longer wheelbase. still both very good cars to drive.

i loved the twitchyness. lol the brakes where dog s**t i thought though. never drove a 309 but heard there supposed to be better.

 

[2 live]

at the time i drove it....i was well into my minis mate....so the brakes felt pretty good to me lol. compared to the minis that is lol. and yeah i liked the 309. almost as quick, handled better. the 1.6 205 was all btm end tho, the 1.9 liked to rev a lot more n felt loads better top end.


i believe the 205 boys throw the 309 rear axle on now for the extra track and better brakes??

 

[kev182cup]

well i always toyed with an mi16 but got sick of pouring money into it. was my first car. hero taught me to drive properly and renault are the only cars to come close in comparison. 106gti was good aswell.

 

[R-Sport.]

problem with his review? none other than the fact he seems to change his mind every other post. 1st the vee is best cos its fastest, it owns every other rs. then the 200 cup is best cos it goes round a roundabout a bit quicker, then the trophy is best cos its cheaper lol. he cant comment on 2 of the best, williams and 172 cup, cos he hasnt driven any. thats like saying the beach at blackpool is the best in the world, but i havent been on the 1 here or ther so cant comment so will just omit them. lol

& vice versa how can you say the williams & 172 cups the best when you havent owned the other 8 in the range???

I think you read what you want to read as every other poster including me has corrected you on what I wrote-.....

best of luck with your 172 track car -- still slower than the 200 cup by a country mile

S

 

[Ian_182]

you say the best is the trophy, or is it the 200? i cant keep track lol, yet you cant comment on the williams or 172 cup. 2 of the very best rs es. maybe you should give them a try and come to a proper, well informed conclusion.

but then you say the 200 is best. in terms of value for money,the trophy is. think trophy poise and pace for a fraction of the cost, then you have the williams in all its essence

iv not owned the rest of the rs range, but have driven most of them on roads i know well. apart from the vee. that was somewhere i didnt know.

AFPMSL.weve been on here on and off for a few years now and i can remember when i first got my new mk2 172 you were telling me with the help of stromba how poor my car was and that the cup was just as bad.
Skip a few years and you've moved the goalposts,the cup is now one of the best RS's ever made.

Keep trolling sunshine...

 

[2 live]

the cup was never as bad as the ff 172. iv always stated if i had to have a 172 it would be a cup. if i had to have a 182 it would be a trophy. i wouldnt even have a 197 tbh. the 200.... well...its still not giving reno the edge they had in the hot hatch market with cars like the gtt , valver then the williams. clios are average cars now. something every other manufacturer can do, and do it better.


and steve. if i felt the other 8 in the range were a step forwards, i would probably own one. but they arent. so why waste money and just take a step sideways from the williams. newer is not always better. and btw...did you own all the other cars youv driven, or were they owned by the co.? i hear you sell a lot, putting another owner on the log book to have it sitting on a forecourt?? i think not tbh. but feel free to put me right. the 172 track car??? i dont have one. the 1 in the vid is considerably faster than any 200 cup...btw....it has boost now too....lol

 

[jack_kemp]

A boosted 1*2 is always going to be quicker than a standard 200!

I completely disagree about the 200.... What can you buy for 15k that is comparable????

 

[2 live]

yeah..but not to steve it seems lol


theres plenty cars can be bought for less than 15k that will stay with the 200. maybe not new. but hey. newer not always better

 

[jack_kemp]

yeah..but not to steve it seems lol


theres plenty cars can be bought for less than 15k that will stay with the 200. maybe not new. but hey. newer not always better

So the Clio is the quickest car in its class then..... The only thing that let's it down is it's sub par interior, but again, that's why it's 15k and not 20k.

You can't count older cars!

 

[Gaz_]

the cup was never as bad as the ff 172. iv always stated if i had to have a 172 it would be a cup. if i had to have a 182 it would be a trophy. i wouldnt even have a 197 tbh. the 200.... well...its still not giving reno the edge they had in the hot hatch market with cars like the gtt , valver then the williams. clios are average cars now. something every other manufacturer can do, and do it better.


and steve. if i felt the other 8 in the range were a step forwards, i would probably own one. but they arent. so why waste money and just take a step sideways from the williams. newer is not always better. and btw...did you own all the other cars youv driven, or were they owned by the co.? i hear you sell a lot, putting another owner on the log book to have it sitting on a forecourt?? i think not tbh. but feel free to put me right. the 172 track car??? i dont have one. the 1 in the vid is considerably faster than any 200 cup...btw....it has boost now too....lol

Apart from maybe a Mini Cooper S , name one decent NEW hot hatch thats on par with a Clio. And i'm talking in Clio segment...............

 

[alex-avfc]

Exactly...The 200 is considered as a class leader, whilst Renault are getting praise for continuing to build decent hot hatches.

 

[Martin_172]

phase 1 172. end thread.

 

[2 live]

quickest car in its class?? not sure tbh. how does the focus rs measure up?? the cooper s? the astra vxr??

as for price. yeah they are cheap compared to the others in their class, but then you can tell in the way they are built. 15k tho??? thought they were more like 16.5.

 

[2 live]

Apart from maybe a Mini Cooper S , name one decent NEW hot hatch thats on par with a Clio. And i'm talking in Clio segment...............

focus rs.

 

[Greeny.]

Cup for me

 

[jack_kemp]

focus rs.

A focus RS? Are you mental??? They're not far off twice the price of a Clio!

You can easily get a standard cup for 15k

 

[2 live]

who mentioned price??? you asked for a car in clios class thats as quick..focus rs is...

 

[Revels]

A Focus RS is not in the same class as a Clio.

 

[2 live]

ibiza cupra...how do they compare..0-6- 7 secs, 140 top end...not bad for a 1.4


lol...its a hot hatch.....clios, golfs, focus, always been in the same class.

 

[2 live]

and the ibiza is cheaper too. will also be built better than the renos

 

[2 live]

A Focus RS is not in the same class as a Clio.

thats like saying a bang and olufson 42 inch tv is not in the same class as a pioneer 50 inch.....they are both tvs, obviously 1 is considerably more than the other, and has better quality. but they both classed as tvs. a hot hatch, fairly quick hatchback, is just that , a car thats fairly quick and has a hatchback. dont let the manufacturers bs fool you.

 

[Gaz_]

focus rs.

So thats the same size as a Clio? So what class is a Megane then?

 

[Danith]

1.7 puma is pretty quick for a first car... The ford racing one is 150hp.

If you want a fun, engaging drive, buy a ph1 or a 172 cup.
If you want gadgets and pleather, buy a ph2 or a 182.

That's not to say the ph2 and 182 aren't a great drive, they are. You just get that little bit more out of the other two IMO.

TEXTBOOK

 

[2 live]

megane has a hatchback does it not??? so id say a hot hatch.

 

[jack_kemp]

'class' of car always refers to it's category, performance and price bracket. If you bought a 200 cup and spent the extra ~£12k on it, it would be a rocket.
Of course it's price dependant. Otherwise we may as well chuck a twingo and a golf w12 in as well.

 

[Gaz_]

ibiza cupra...how do they compare..0-6- 7 secs, 140 top end...not bad for a 1.4


lol...its a hot hatch.....clios, golfs, focus, always been in the same class.

You're being a tool. I'm on about SEGMENT (class) size, not if its a hatch back or not.........

Also cant remember reading too much about these 'class leading' Ibiza's tbh, link?

 

[2 live]

http://www.seat.co.uk/generator/su/com/NewIbizaCUPRA/site/engines/main.html

 

[Gaz_]

So a hot hatch in your eyes is class leading if its won an award for its engine? What about the handling/feeling that you like mentioning

I want some proof its better than a Clio from independent tests as an all round hot hatch. But only a Clio segment sized car.

Oh and the Clio here didnt do too bad,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ae4RqTW5UDU

against car in a Class above

 

[ForceIndia]

As per, he's on the windup. Don't bite. Only a moron would say that a Clio is in the same class/segment as a focus.

 

[Gaz_]

Maybe the spider webs are also covering his rose tinted specs?

 

[jack_kemp]

0-60 is 7.5 secs for the ibiza btw....

 

[Kneel]

Out of those you listed in the op I would want a 172 ph1 for the best drive of them, cable throttle completely owns FBW. Out of all clio's I would want a 197 again, maybe a 200 but I'm still not sold on the front end. I dont rate my 172 anywhere near as good as the 197 was, but the thing that I loved about the 197 was switching the TC off and blasting along a B-Road with serious grip.

I wouldn't want a rusty old heap, having driven a mk1 1.2 for a couple of years before buying a mk2 it was comparatively slow, dull, boring and unresponsive and the rust was seriously annoying, granted the rust is just because its an old car but still a complete PITA. The Williams has a small devoted following but I wouldn't want one ever. The one decent one I know of (Caroles) I would bet has probably cost her easily as much as my 172 has cost me, and mines a dog of a 172..

 

[Ian_182]

Did someone say a williams is on any kind of par with a focus RS in any kind of the word...?

I hope not,regardless of price...

 

[BenadetH]

Wow, when are we all just going to get our dicks out and compare??

Surely its all realy all horses for courses yeah? People love all these "hot hatches" for different reasons yeah. Hardly ANYONE has tried ALL the cars we are talking about surely??

Never driven any other cliosport but the 182 but would love to have a try of all the others because I have always had a passion for renault. Surely the Williams is so respected for how pioneering it was back in the day...in the same way the mk1 golf gti and the 205 gti are? Still an exciting drive and have a character all their own?

 

[mr.valver]

We can all flash our willies at one another, but in the end of the day the there is not answer to the question.

For one thing, how many totally standard cars are about?
Apart from track days, who drives hard enough on public roads to decide which car is the best.

There all going to give you different driving experiences, from the raw valver/williams/172 cup to the more refined yet still sporty 200.

Am sure if you stuck the average young 200 driver into a Williams they would slate the clutch, dash and looks.

People appreciate different things in cars, I like the rawness of the valver/williams/172cup hence I've owned them all, but wouldn't automatically enjoy the 197/200, because it doesn't rattle or give me the feedback I enjoy whilst driving.

Each to their own.

and on them words, the 172 Cup is the best by miles... FACT!! :rasp: