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Someone at MSN does not like the Clio!!



  172 Cup


"On paper, the stupidly named Clio Renaultsport 172 appears to have it all - small proportions, a 2.0-litre 172bhp engine and a rich motorsport heritage. But somehow, it doesnt quite add up. The engine delivers strong performance, but the Renault suffers dreadful torque-steer (the tendency of the front wheels to drag the car off line under acceleration) and this can be particularly problematic when exiting tight bends.

The steering also lacks feel and this contributes to a feels clumsy when it should feel lithe and responsive. Fine exterior styling and a sporty interior cant hide the Renaults basic failings. A disappointment.
Verdict
Rating 6 out of 10
Promises so much but fails to deliver"

Well that told us then. Not sure which muppet wrote this but they couldnt even manage to find the correct picture! It shows a V6.

Go to http://carview.msn.co.uk/carnews/top10hothatchbacks2/

Beaten by a Saxo
 


The easiest way to avoid torque steer to to trade in the 172 for the "massively powerfull" saxo vts which doesnt have the same problem...

Me thinks not!
 


Of course it bloody has torque steer, its an FF car with a lot of Torque!

Has anyone here driven a CTR? Do they have the same?
 

Rich-D

ClioSport Club Member
  E90 LCI 330d


Well, I had a 106 GTi for 2 years and I have access to a mk1 Clio 172 which I drive a lot.

Borrowed the 172 and took it to a trackday last weekend, where I have previously also taken the 106. In the Clio I did 105 miles thrashing it round the track, so I have a very good basis for comparison.

In terms of handling the 106 is amazing and through the twisties it can and will beat a 172, even though it has less power.

Dont quite agree with that review though as the 172 is still a good handling car and great to drive, but the mk1 does suffer from understeer. I know that the mk2 has revised suspension and steering, so is better.

Also, dont be fooled into thinking that with only a 1.6 engine and 120bhp that the 106 is slow, because in a drag style sprint there aint much in it between a 172 and a 106.

(waits for claims of b0ll0x & dream on, etc.)

I aint some little kiddie racer, so I dont do the bullsh!t thing. This is the truth.
 
  172 Cup


Agre with you mate! A drag style sprint between the 172 and a 106 would be fairly equal...... Until about 60mph at which point the 106 would get its arse kicked.
 


Possibly the guy could have been on about the V6?? I have read reports that teh V6 can be a bit scary when it comes down to handling but everything I here about the 172 suggests it handles very well in both dry and wet conditions.
Sounds like the guy reporting is off his tits to me. Send the Zulus in hey Griff.
 

Rich-D

ClioSport Club Member
  E90 LCI 330d


griff_90 -

Well, that was the kind of "my cars the best" response I had expected!
 
  172 Cup


You should be happy then

Mate just being realistic, 106 would not keep up with the 172 over 60. Not rocket science is it??
 

Rich-D

ClioSport Club Member
  E90 LCI 330d


I cant even be bothered...

This was done to death on another forum a few months back and it ended up with 2 guys meeting up at a drag strip to have it out.

Was a standard mk2 172 vs a standard VTS (same as 106 GTi) at Crail (the 172 owner comes on here) and they ran a few 1/4s against each other.

Lets just say the Clio driver changed his opinions...
 
  Honda Civic Type R GT


Only my opinion, but had a 106 GTI for 3 years before swapping it for my mk1 172 so here goes;

106 GTI is a superb car! Cross country and into the bends its awesome. Personally I think it handles/corners better that the 172, but in a strait line sprint I think the 172 will toast a 106.

Just my two penny worth,
Tommy.
 
  172 Cup


Rich "cant be arsed cos Im wrong" D -

Sorry I never realised before that all the roads in this country are only 1/4 of a mile long. What do you expect at a drag strip?

Do a few laps of a circuit and your wonderfully handling 106 would be more than a few seconds behind the 172.

Mate get a life. Better still stop talking crap.

Griff

Appologies to everyone else who knows me as mr nice normally - one of those days
 
  Leon Cupra


A good mate of mine has a 106 GTI and I have raced him lodes of times. There is one stretch of duel carriageway by me which tests both of the cars the max hears a brief description. Starting at a set of traffic light side by side short ¼ mile sprint to a large sweeping motorway island then a long strait for about a mile to a small tight island a short squirt for about 200 meters to another small tight island and exit back onto the carriageway for a 2 mile race of long sweeping bends to the end when you come into a village. Off the lights the Clio has a slight advantage up until about 50ish then 106 starts to drop back, reach the motorway island at about 80ish and then slow to 60 and accelerate round the motorway island by which time the 106 has caught me up and is just edging past me on the island, exit the island at about 70-75ish and put the hammer down within about 100 meters I am back past the 106 and leaving him at a swift rate, at the end of the mile strait I break from about 130mph for the first of the small tight islands, by the time I exit the first island the 106 has just entered it, I am half way down the short 200 meter squirt as he exits the first island, by the time I have negotiated the second short tight island we are neck and neck again exiting the island we both nail it from about 45 and the Clio has a noticeable advantage accelerating away again up to about 110 full speed is not possible because of the sweeping bends but the Clio holds it’s advantage all the way to the end, race over.
Conclusion- The Clio has a slight advantage of the mark to about 50ish then the extra power and torque of the Clio come into play the, the 106 has the advantage at low and mid speed cornering but as soon as the cars get onto a strait the 106 dose not have a chance. Very high speed cornering (e.g. long sweeping bends at 110 as above) the cars are equal the 106 has no advantage. So I agree with the other guys the 106 is a very good car and handles extremely well but strait line speed of the Clio wins hands down, that extra power and torque does count for something.
By the way, before you go slating my mates car he has had it from new 2 years ago, 16k miles serviced every 6k miles, it also has a viper induction kit and a cat back stainless exhaust. And he is also thinking of swapping it for a Clio cup.

Tim.
 
  BMW 320d Sport


Cooper - maybe they mixed up the V6 with the 172 - but torque steer doesnt really apply to a rwd car with the driven wheels having equal length driveshafts, they messed up in some other way I reckon.

Rich D - Yes the 106 Gti is quick, no doubt about it, one of those cars that is much more than the sum of its parts. I agree that a 106 and a 172 would be fairly even on the track if driven well. I suspect in the hands of an average driver the 172 would take it through the straight line acceleration.
In a straight drag off the line theyd be even around town, but once you get up to motorway speeds I think the 172 would take it quite comfortably. A 1/4 mile run would be interesting.
 

Rich-D

ClioSport Club Member
  E90 LCI 330d


griff_90 -

I would love to (if I still had the car) have gone head to head with you round a track mate and then seen your face when "shock horror" my lowly underpowerd 106 is not left miles behind!

You seem to have forgotten that I did over 100 miles round a track in a Clio 172 just last Saturday and know "exactly" what they are like on track!

This is in fact the very car >>>

http://members.lycos.co.uk/Pug106GTi/Misc/Clio%20172%20pic01.jpg


I have also previously had my 106 round the very same track and my other mate in his mk2 172 was there.

We thrashed round that track all day and there wasnt much to seperate the 2 cars, so I dont give 2 hoots what you think.

This is a shot of my 106 on another trackday >>>

http://members.lycos.co.uk/Pug106GTi/Misc/Me_Cornering.jpg


The Clios advantage is the fact that the larger engine gives it more grunt and once the 106 hits the redline in 3rd and then changes up into 4th gear it begins to loose out and the Clio is away. Up to that point they are surprisingly pretty similar and round a track the Clio only gets to use this advantage on the straights.

Plus through the tight(er) corners the 106 has a definate advantage, which means that round a track they arent that far apart. Clio is quicker down the straights, but 106 makes up for it on the twisty bits, which evens it out.

Obviously at higher speeds the Clio is well away, but all I was saying originally was that you should not underestimate a 106 GTi.
 
  CTR EK9 turbo


Who cares? the clio is faster, end of story. More torque, bigger engine, more bhp - great. Toast you any day. My friend has a VTS which is supposed to have different gearing or better acceleration or something. He gets TOASTED every weekend and he gets very pissed off. Face it, 1.6 vs 2.0 both small cars. 2.0 wins. Why is everyone having a go at 172 owners for having a quick car. I race him off the lights every time and he loses EVERY time, and thats only to 40-50 mph once im in second gear hes got no chance. TOASTED TOASTED TOASTED. Every saxo or 106 ive raced has lost. In the real world youve got a passenger with you or maybe 2 so again, the clio is at the advantage, bigger engine, more torque and pulls away. If you put a passenger in your car there would be a bigger difference in pace than if i was to do the same. Ive had 2 passengers in my car when ive raced the VTS hes had one or none, and ive still won. Sorry, you asked for it. My car is faster than yours. The Renaultsport Clio 172 2.0 with 148 lb/ft is faster than a 1.6 120 bhp car. Why come in here and do this? stay in the pug forum and dont have dim views of the 172 in here please.

Sorry about that, i hate it when people come in here and add negative vibes about the car that this website is dedicated to. Thankyou.
 

Rich-D

ClioSport Club Member
  E90 LCI 330d


Simon172 -

Who came on here slating 172s?!

Try going back and reading what I orignally posted...

I said "that the 172 is still a good handling car and great to drive", or cant you read?!

For the record I would definately have a 172 myself and am seriously considering buying a "Cup Sport" Clio 172 sometime in the near future, that is why I am on this forum to start with.

It was recommended to me by a friend, but its nice to see you 172 lot are so friendly and welcoming to newcomers!

Now I dont have the 106 anymore, so why should I stay on the Pug forums? I am genuinely interested in the Clio 172 and I am not being derogatory about the car, so what is your problem mate?!



Also, who said I only had 120bhp?!
 
  S2000


Rich I never radically changed my opinion about the VTS.

1. I had a passenger.
2. I only had 1000 miles on the clock.
3.I beat him in terms of time over the 1/4 mile, he had a better reaction time!
4. I was realing him in by the end, if it was a race to 100, it would have been bye bye!
 


Standard v Standard the 172 is faster. But not by huge amounts. About 2-3 seconds difference at 100. Yeah its faster but not by light years. Had a race with aold modle uk spec scooby. He beat me by 5-6 car lengths at 140 ish. Not a huge amount but he beat me. Once I get the chip and induction kit he wont beat me by much, but he would still proberly be slighty quicker. Was damn funto race a scooby on the road Once rolling theres nothing in it till the top of third, then slowly but surely he pulled that 5-6 car lengths from 90 ish to 140 ish(on the clock). To a VTS/106 driver with slight mods he would think that 172 isnt that fast, but its takes a large amount of power to make small differences in perforamnce.

Chun.
 

Rich-D

ClioSport Club Member
  E90 LCI 330d


Teady -

Hello mate, I wondered when you would turn up!

Weve seen this one before eh?!

Anyway, you have to admit that before you went to Crail you thought you were going to leather that VTS down the drag strip, but it "was" quicker than you expected.

That VTS was pulling low 15s over the 1/4 mile all day and even you have to admit it was quick for a standard car.

Hows your 172 doing by the way?!

That blue one (in pic above) has gotten a lot quicker now its got a lot of miles on the clock. Its managed to rack up 24k miles already!

Shame I never came up to Crail that day, but it was too far for me.
 


Rich-D you are welcome on here any time mate, the way i see it is more member the better
btw as stated b4 a 106 GTi would be even with a 172 over short sprints and better on a tight track
 
  CTR EK9 turbo


Oh sorry i didnt realise, my mistake. Weve had a load of people in here slating 172s and the poor car gets a lot of abuse from loads of other forums so im kinda up tight about that. Sorry. Ive never done an outburst like that before, but it wont happen again. I dont know what came over me.
p.s. surely that cone filter in the clio cant be doing it any favours drawing in all that hot air, especially whilst being caned around a track!? id stick with the standard air box or get the piperxviper or bmc.
 

Rich-D

ClioSport Club Member
  E90 LCI 330d


Simon -

No worries mate.

I had kinda guessed from your reaction that youd not fully read all the posts and got the wrong end of the stick.


As for that cone filter...

He has covered 24k miles in less than a year in that car as he uses it for work, but hes had no problems with the filter. He reckons its quicker with it on actually.

You generally only get problems with "open" induction kits like that if you are going very slowly and/or have been stopped and there is not enough air moving through the front of the car.

On a track you are always moving and on the slow(er) corners you never slow right down so there is a good supply of cold air. There were no problems on the track day and it pulled like trooper all day!

I had a Pipercross on my 106 GTi for the 2 years that I owned it and that never suffered from bogging down due to hot air unless I was stopped in traffic, or on a hot day, etc... As soon as your on the move and the airflow starts, its fine and there was a definate performance increase with the induction kit on the 106.

You can see from the pic below that there is also b*gger all room under the bonnet...

http://members.lycos.co.uk/Pug106GTi/106_induction.jpg

Note the cold air feed to the filter, which you definately need!


On that Clio the induction noise is absolutely superb. Below 5000rpm it barbles nicely with a good throaty roar, but get the VVT in and it barks at you.

Really does sound the nuts!
 
  CTR EK9 turbo


Cool. Ive got a green induction kit ready to fit on mine, but havent fit it yet due to warranty etc. My friend put a normal pipercross on his VTS and it seemed to slow him down. Especially when it came to off the lights toasting, probably due to larger engine bay heat like you said. He didnt have a very good cold air feed either!
 

Rich-D

ClioSport Club Member
  E90 LCI 330d


Cold air is a MUST mate.

I ran mine without the cold air feed once on a hot summers day and if you slowed down at say some traffic lights for example and stopped for a few secs. Then when you tried to gun it off, the thing bogged down off the line until the speed got up enough to blow cold air through the bonnet.

The pic of mine doesnt really show the air feed that well, but it attaches to the standard air intake scoop under the front panel and drags air in this way, plus there is cool, air coming from underneath the filter.

On the 172, there are already two cold air feed pipes that the standard air box uses, so they can be used to supply air to the induction kit.

The Clio doesnt seem to suffer from bogging down like the 106 & Saxo do, so youll have no problems.

Just wait for the induction roar though!
 
  CTR EK9 turbo


it sounds really good doesnt it? i took my airfilter off a while back just to sample the sound, hmmm... tasty!
 


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