Starter wont activate

[novemberkim]

We have a 2006 Clio Privilege manual petrol which has done 84,000 kms with no trouble. However, twice now a couple of days apart it has refused to start. Turned the key, all of the dashboard indicator lights came on, turned further to start - nothing. It has a new battery, lights are working fine ..... both times this happened it has been easy enough to roll it and jump start, then afterwards it has started fine with the key a number of times so I'm wondering what I should check before this happens again in an awkward place where I can't get it started. Any suggestions please ??

 

[Jonny1*2]

Just sounds like it's sticking mate. Might be the cold weather? Or it's on the way out.

 

[novemberkim]

Thanks Jonny1*2 for such a quick reply. What do you reckon is sticking or on the way out? Starter motor or solenoid? I have had similar issues with other vehicles in the past and sometimes a sharp tap would get it going (a few more times). Is it possible to use that test on the Clio? This is a 1.6 litre motor by the way. There is absolutely no sound from the motor area during this problem. Cold weather is not the problem - it happened the second time this arvo while the temp was 34 degrees C (quite warm).

 

[Dave Hester]

If the earth strap on the gearbox has broken it will cause it to not start so check that first and also the earth from the battery to the body

 

[Jonny1*2]

solenoid most likely. However if you have been bump starting it that should effectively do the same as wacking it with a hammer.

 

[novemberkim]

I have checked the two earth straps from the battery. The one to the body is like new and tight both ends, the other to the gearbox is dirty at the bottom but seems in good nick and bolted on tight - also I have checked for sparks whilst cranking (none).

Mostly it is starting perfectly (no symptoms of trouble) ... but just a couple of times it has been completely dead.

 

[novemberkim]

So if/when it happens next I could wack the solenoid first (before bump starting)? and if it starts with the key after the wack that would prove that the solenoid is the problem?

next question: where the *&^%$ is the solenoid ? probably I can find it by following the heaviest +ve cable from the battery then work out how to do the wacking ...
next question: How hard is it to change a solenoid on a Clio? In the old days that would have been an inexpensive part and a simple job ... I used to pull the motor out of my hotted Cooper S (frequently) in the 70's ... that turned me off mechanicking but currently we live an hour from professional help here (and run our own 7 day a week business) so I might be tempted to buy the part over the internet and fit it myself if my (bigger now) hands will fit into the spaces and special tools are not required??

 

[novemberkim]

I've looked for the solenoid under the bonnet and can't find it ? Do I need to remove something to get at it or do I need to jack the car and get to it from underneath ? Thanks.

 

[Cup_Phil]

Look inbetween the middle 2 exhaust pipes at the back - theres a silver looking heat shield
The starter motor is under that and the solenoid is on the top of the starter motor

It's a very common fault around 70-80k - the heat from the exhaust starts to make the solenoid stick all the time
The starter motors are only £30-40 2nd hand but it's an absolute pain to get to

 

[novemberkim]

Thanks Cup_Phil,
The problem has escalated today, from an occasional problem to continuous. I am convinced that the solenoid sticking is the issue, thanks everyone for helping to identify that.
Now we face the issue of getting it fixed.
We are in country Tasmania, island State of Australia. Renaults are not common here ... Tech's with Clio experience are rare!
I have had a look on eBay but not found an obvious solution in this country...

Our late 2005 built Privelege has a 1.6 litre motor, but starters for sale are described for the 1.4 litre or 2 litre.
Looks like they are rebuilt and not cheap. (A$500 for the 2 litre variety converts to about 330 English pounds)
[Other lower priced items I've seen described as 'suit renault'.]
I also found a renault parts forum on the web but I have not been there yet.

I am wondering:
Is there compatibility with Nissan perhaps? They are common here.
Is the solenoid sold as a separate part ... is it wise to go that way or do we really need the whole starter?

Do we have to take it out to find out what sort it is?

Is it appropriate to ask these Q's on this forum ? or should I go to the special parts forum?

 

[novemberkim]

Any tips about the job for whoever takes the starter out?
Presume it is done from underneath? Can it be done at home or does it need special tools?
What else has to be removed to get at it?
Do we need extra parts to complete the job? Like maybe exhaust or manifold gaskets?

 

[Cup_Phil]

I'm not familiar with the 1.6 engine layout

I know on the 2.0 you have to undo all the manifold bolts and move the manifold back out the way and then you can get to the starter from underneath.
I did it on my driveway myself but it took nearly 4 hours and was a nightmare

 

[Sean6545]

Is it a Clio 3 or a Clio 2 campus?

 

[novemberkim]

I am not familiar with the description Clio 3 or Clio 2. How can I tell the difference?
This is our second Clio, both 4 door manuals. The first one was a 1.4L Campus, this one has the same body but a number of extra features (climate control air, cruise and speed control, even a rain sensing windscreen) including a 16V 1.6L motor and is badged as a "Privilege" (with a proper chrome badge).
Can you tell from the ID numbers?
Model No/code is PR163M
Engine No. is K4MA744D031732

 

[popes]

I have experienced my clio not starting, I got hold of a diagnostic box (Mac Tools) plugged it in and it would not communicate. So I checked wiring continuity, which involves removing the ECU which is a nightmare its caged in a black bock behind the battery when I finaly removed it I disconnected the ECU keyed on in aux position, as I was checking (you will need some drawings) supply voltage Terminal 30 ECU plug was showing low volts (this is the ECU feed)so I run in another cable from fuse3 cut and crimped onto the terminal 30 and reconnected the ECU, guess what I now fires up:clap: also with no fault codes.
So if you have this problem try connecting to the ECU with a diagnostic box if you find you are unable to connect check feed from fuse3 (5A) to terminal 30 ECU and auxilary fuse 5 15A (which also feeds the fuel pump relay) to terminal 29 ECU if they are ok check returns 3,28 & 33. Hope you find this useful.

 

[novemberkim]

Thanks Popes for your suggestion. Unfortunately I don't have access to a diagnostic box or drawings ... but I take the point that it would be wise to plug one in before going to a load of expense and time in another direction.

Though the way this problem developed (as an intermittent fault which got worse) suggests an electro mechanical issue rather than electronic I think ... and everything else seems to be working perfectly working fine still. Cup-phils advice that sticky solenoid is a common problem is pretty convincing.

Thinking aloud here;
If I can put my multi meter onto the solenoid input that would give the answer would it not?
Maybe with a mirror I can do that?
maybe there is a circuit drawing in the operators manual which might give an easier point to check?

I have not actually given it a wack yet either .. now that I know where it is I will try to do that too

 

[popes]

Next time you experience this problem check to make sure the immobilizer light extinguishes, if it carries on flashing you have a problem with your key (possibly key battery) but if it stays solid it is a ECU fault possibly a wiring fault. As I looked through the wiring schematic the starter motor is not wired through the ECU so if you can't hear anything turning over it must be the solenoid as previously suggested. Keep us posted how you get on.

 

[novemberkim]

Thanks Popes,
I have checked out the immobilizer light (and read about it in the handbook) as you suggested and found it working correctly.

The problem has escalated from occasional to continuous - it now wont start (except by bumping ...).
There is no sound whatsoever from the starter.

I reckon that the problem is the solenoid, so the question moves on to become "how best to get it fixed?"

Since this sounds like a difficult job I am inclined to find a technician to do it - unfortunately tho' there is not likely to be anyone with much experience on Clios, as there are not many Renaults on the island.
The bloke who services our vehicles is an 'allrounder' and good at that but has never touched another Clio.

The wife and I work long hours at home in our own business for not a big income ... she can cover for me if I take a day or so mechanicking but there will be 'family unhappiness' if there are snags.
So maybe I should find out everything I can about the job from you people then hand the car and the parts and your advice over to the tech?


Do I have to replace the whole starter motor assembly or can I just put in a new solenoid?
As well as the exhaust manifold what else has to be removed/disconnected/loosened
Are there any special tools required or tricks (like using a hoist or jack) or tips or things to avoid?

Will it need extra parts (like gaskets) to put it back together?
Is it straightforward nuts and bolts or will it need adjusting/tuning afterwards.

Thanks