SUb + amp help !!!!

[cliomark123]

Hi right i have bought 2 twin subs, of MagicMan thanks Adam !! , and i currently just have 2 6x9s in my car amped from a sony 250w, but i now have a twin subs, and a 800w max, 2 channel amp, (bridgable), but how do i wire this amp in ? and still use the other amp for the 6x9s ?? do i have to use a distrubter block ? to power both and get eatth to both and to get remote lead to both..


Any Help would be much Appricated.


Mark

 

[wallop]

You may now need to upgrade your power supply...

Easiest way to work out what you require is;

1, Add up all onboard amplifier fusing....this will give approx max draw...
2, Fit correctly rated power cable....(Don't forget to ADD an extra battery to chassis earth to match your new power cable)....
3, Fuse new cable according to its own rating....
4, Fit fused distribution block in boot to split main power feed between each item, (again use correct grade of power cable to feed each item from the distribution block)....

A Quick sketch to show a twin amp setup;

You can ignore the quoted sizes/figures in the sketch, this sketch was done for a higher powered setup....

Yours will probably come out at;

Batt--to--boot = 4awg fused at 80amps
dist block--to--sony amp = 8awg fused at 30amps in block
dist block--to--sub amp = 8awg fused at 40amps in block

With regards remote turn on lead; I'm not a fan of daisy chaining, I prefer to split the feed from a single to a double before the amps, this allows both amps to only have one remote wire fitted which keeps a neater appearance.....

CAUTION; When working on a system you should pay heed to a few safety tips to avoid possible system damage;

1, With system switched off....
2, Disconnect all RCA leads from any amplifier which is/has been in use....
3, Reconnect all RCA leads last....
4, When fitting any amplifier you should ensure you wire it up in the correct order;

Connection sequence;
1, Speaker wires
2, Batt +ve feed
3, Amplifier earth
4, remote turn on
5, Double check all connections, fit power supply fuse, Switch system on and check amp powers up.....
6, If amp powers up OK, then switch system OFF....
7, Connect all RCA leads....

To disconnect an amp;
1, System OFF...
2, Remove RCA leads, remove power supply fuse....
3, Remove amp remote
4, Remove amp earth
5, Remove amps batt +ve
6, Remove speaker wires

 

[Dink]

i'm sorry i'd have to disagree with the connection sequence

i'd connect

amp earth
amp feed
remote
try it and then switch it off
then connect
speaker wire
then rca's

 

[wallop]

i'm sorry i'd have to disagree with the connection sequence

i'd connect

amp earth
amp feed
remote
try it and then switch it off
then connect
speaker wire
then rca's

I suppose you have a reason for this?? Care to share it??

Very unwise to recommend a connection sequence that can damage certain types of equipment, (For example, connecting & testing a Blaupunkt burning desire amp using your recommendation would result in a blown output stage)....

I will concede your method of connection & testing would be safe, (assuming power supply fuse is removed until all connections are made), for most amps, but not all....as my recommendation is.....

 

[Dink]

well connecting anything you would always connect the ground first

also putting the supply to an amp can make it output at the speaker terminals which would be dc and really not good for speakers

then i suppose the rest could be changed if you want

 

[cliomark123]

Thanks for help guys

 

[wallop]

well connecting anything you would always connect the ground first

also putting the supply to an amp can make it output at the speaker terminals which would be dc and really not good for speakers

then i suppose the rest could be changed if you want

well connecting anything you would always connect the ground first

Would you, lets assume your reconnecting a cars battery, you've just sent a power surge through all the electrics and now need to replace a few expensive items, (esp if doing this on newer cars).....

Connect live first, then earth and surge is limited to earth terminal....

also putting the supply to an amp can make it output at the speaker terminals which would be dc and really not good for speakers

Most amplifiers have protection circuits to protect speakers from DC...
If the amp is giving DC at the speaker terminals its knackered anyway...
Can't understand your argument here really, DC at speakers will occur whether connected in my order or yours...

 

[Dink]

how would you send a power surge through everything if you connect the neg first???

you connect the positive first the whole car will be at 12v until you connect the neg which will then pull it down to 0v

there is a chance (slim one) that as all the caps and other electronics in the amp charge as you connect the supply you could have a very short dc output at the speaker terminals

 

[wallop]

how would you send a power surge through everything if you connect the neg first???

you connect the positive first the whole car will be at 12v until you connect the neg which will then pull it down to 0v

there is a chance (slim one) that as all the caps and other electronics in the amp charge as you connect the supply you could have a very short dc output at the speaker terminals

Sorry mate, I assumed you knew what you were talking about....

No point carrying on the discussion....

 

[wallop]

Sorry about previous post, should really try to be a little easier going....

Anyway.....

An electrical circuit is just that, a full circuit....

The battery +ve terminal is the source or start of the outward path, the current then travels through the circuit and back to the battery via the return path, (in the case of a car this is the chassis then finally the battery/chassis earth strap)....

If you complete the circuit at the source, (batt +ve terminal), the surge will follow the circuit right back into the battery +ve terminal....(full loop taking out all sensitive circuits on its way)....

If you complete the circuit at the earth terminal then the surge begins and ends at the -ve terminal....

So if you break the circuit anywhere, the power surge will follow the blue & green arrows till it completes the circuit...

hope you understand

 

[Dink]

so when a fuse operates it's going to fry all the circuits cos the +ve is broken but the -ve is complete????

i do understand electrical circuits that why all switching is also done on the +ve

also lost about surges as current is drawn and not given so any item with only pull the current it needs

 

[wallop]

so when a fuse operates it's going to fry all the circuits cos the +ve is broken but the -ve is complete????

i do understand electrical circuits that why all switching is also done on the +ve

also lost about surges as current is drawn and not given so any item with only pull the current it needs

All switching except, all courtesy lights, some radiator cooling fans, could go on but point is proven I believe....

Tell you what, GOOGLE changing car batteries or something and post me a few links to prove your correct....or try GOOGLE on how to jump start a car.....

With regards current being drawn, correct it is, your method current is drawn in the form of a power surge from the source, ( +ve terminal), right through all circuits and back to the battery, my method, (the correct method), its drawn from the earth strap/terminal into the battery....You do realise the battery acts as a draw or load when its part of a circuit....

Will wait for confirmation from your googling, (good luck, you need it).....

 

[agithegreat]

Wallop, you're a clever chap, you put loads of input into TA and it's very usefull most of the time. BUT, you are really cocky when it comes to cliosport. It's a learning process, and don't forget that different people do different things.
If someone does something different to you do, don't slate them because of it.
Just do things the way you want, don't argue about it, you can both put across your suggestions.
Best of luck getting along!

 

[wallop]

Wallop, you're a clever chap, you put loads of input into TA and it's very usefull most of the time. BUT, you are really c**ky when it comes to cliosport. It's a learning process, and don't forget that different people do different things.
If someone does something different to you do, don't slate them because of it.
Just do things the way you want, don't argue about it, you can both put across your suggestions.
Best of luck getting along!

Oh dear,

Just read a few posts and would have to agree, sound like a right obnoxious t**t in some posts don't I....

@ OP, Sorry for major thread hijack mate, hope my suggestions help....
@ agithegreat, Thanks for pointing out my apparent aloofness that seems to affect me when people dissagree with my sugestions...

@ Dink, Seems I've been a little offish toward your suggestions, sorry mate....

 

[Dink]

yes you might get a surge into one circuit but that doesn't force a surge into others

yes the battery does have an internal resistance (although very small) it acts as a load and a source at the same time?

yes you are right about how to jump start a car but have a look at how to charge an in-car capacitor next time your on google.

which is why you get a spark when you connect an amp as the is a few thousand farads on the amp's power supply

doesn't bother me at all tbh wallop i'm all up for learning more about electrics than i already know lol

 

[wallop]

This thread is like an electrical circuit, round & round the current flows lol...

When you connect your amp;

Speaker wires first---Protects output stage on some amps which have basically been poorly designed, (Blaupunkt 'Burning Desire' as an example)....simply put, no load=burnt out output stage....

Amplifier Earth---If Earth is correctly sited and a good contact offers a path of least resistance for the current on its return to its source/supply....

Amplifier Battery supply---This connection is made with the fuse removed, this means there is no chance of any current flow, you could short it to ground with no ill effects....(check item 5 in the original connection sequence).....

Amplifier remote turn on---Allows amp to be tested in situ....

Fit main supply Fuse---completes the circuit, Any undue voltage/current will follow the path of least resistance, (If RCA leads were fitted at this point its possible that if there is a problem with the amp earth the amp will earth via the RCA leads and head unit earth causing head unit earth track damage).....

HAS THE PENNY DROPPED YET??????????

THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE IN THE TWO METHODS OF CONNECTION, YOUR METHOD IS -VE FIRST THEN +VE....

MINE IS +VE FIRST,(NO FUSE), THEN -VE, THEN FIT FUSE.....

THE CONNECTION SEQUENCE ISN'T YOUR PROBLEM, THE BASIC UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT CAN HAPPEN IS....

YOUR METHOD, MY METHOD, DOESN'T MATTER, DC CURRENT INTO SPEAKERS MEANS FAULTY AMP, PERIOD....

@ agithegreat, sorry mate, I'm now going outside to bang my head against a wall....I will not be posting in this thread again....

All I asked for was a good reason for not connecting speakers first, all I got was DC running into speakers???? This would happen as soon as Dink fitted them at a later time anyway.....

@ Whoever may have read this far, Please feel free to draw your own conclusions and follow whichever line or method that you believe to be correct.....

ONCE AGAIN, SORRY TO ALL IF I HAVE OFFENDED ANYONE....