Suspension/gearbox

[Philip Griffiths]

Hi, my 182 is going into storage the winter. Whilst there I’m going to get it ready for next years track days. And I’m wondering what people would do first. Suspension or gearbox.

I’ve already done solid top mounts and some/most of the polly pushes. And it’s running cooksport springs on cup shocks. I was thinking getting come decent cool overs and adding some camber.

Or my other option would be to build a gearbox/transmission, total rebuild of the box with and lsd and a gear linkage, probably a pms one.

I can’t do both cause of funds. I wish I could [emoji23]

Any advice would be appreciated

Thanks


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[banhama]

As you use the car on track I would say an LSD would give you the most benefit.
With an LSD you can at least use the power out of the corners so much earlier, which will in turn maximise your speed down the straights.
Later you can add adjustable suspension to improve how you put the power down, rotate the car etc. But I would recommend the LSD first, it took a second off my lap times.
As far as what diff to choose, if its a fairly focussed track car I would unreservedly recommend a Gripper plated diff and gearbox rebuild from @NorthloopCup.

I recently tried using slicks on the front of my 182 with great results, another second off the lap time. BUT the extra grip would have been totally useless without the LSD.

This is just a one lap video to demonstrate how well the car works with an LSD.



That's my thoughts, for what they're worth, but I'm sure you'll get many differing views all with their own merits.
Good luck, and please let us know what you decide to do and what the results are. So many interesting threads on here don't have any follow up.

 

[JamesBryan]

If I was to go back in time, it would 100% be an LSD for me.

Best mod you can do by far.

 

[Philip Griffiths]

Thanks for that guys. It was what I was thinking but just wanted another opinion.

Obviously diffs are mega expensive for clios. And everyone raves about the gripper plate diffs. But would I really see the difference between that and a quaife atb?

Thanks


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[Philip Griffiths]

[mention]Dai1 [/mention] read this


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[JamesBryan]

Thanks for that guys. It was what I was thinking but just wanted another opinion.

Obviously diffs are mega expensive for clios. And everyone raves about the gripper plate diffs. But would I really see the difference between that and a quaife atb?

Thanks


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The Quaife is perfectly fine for the odd track day.

That's what I have in mine fitted by @NorthloopCup

 

[Philip Griffiths]

The Quaife is perfectly fine for the odd track day.

That's what I have in mine fitted by @NorthloopCup

I’ve never heard bad things about either. But never used one either. But the car will be track only next year and it’ll be getting more than the odd track day. Would you still use it then? Or go gripper?


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[JamesBryan]

I’ve never heard bad things about either. But never used one either. But the car will be track only next year and it’ll be getting more than the odd track day. Would you still use it then? Or go gripper?


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If it was me, I'd go gripper.

 

[Philip Griffiths]

Sorry for all the questions, gearboxes aren’t my strong point. Have any of you changed the final drive or just fitted the diff?

Thanks


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[JamesBryan]

Sorry for all the questions, gearboxes aren’t my strong point. Have any of you changed the final drive or just fitted the diff?

Thanks


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Quite common for people to change the FD with a Gripper, however it is a bigger expense on top so it depends on what tracks you're likely to use it on.

 

[banhama]

Sorry for all the questions, gearboxes aren’t my strong point. Have any of you changed the final drive or just fitted the diff?

Thanks


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I also had the final drive changed to 4.53 (13/59 I think), but that was specifically for Lydden Hill which is small and cornery and I was damaging the clutch at one particular corner with the standard ratio.
The shorter? ratio has made the car more suited to track use. Although there's still one corner where I'm caught between gears and need to grow the minstrels to take it faster in 4th, rather than smash the rev limiter in 3rd!
I haven't had the chance to try this final drive at other circuits but I'm sure it would also be an improvement at Brands Indy. But as @JamesBryan says it is an additional cost and is may not suit circuits where power allowing you can get up to top speeds.
As with the LSD it was fitted by @NorthloopCup whose expert advice I took as I know bugger all about transmissions myself!

 

[TheCAB]

If you are going to use it on the road then Quaife (ATB type diff) is the one to go for as plated diffs are noisy / clunky at low speeds, so much so you would think there is something up with the transmission!! Gripper provides a “full lock” and is therefore much better for a track only based car. Gripper needs a change of driving style to get best out of it but does reduce lap times if driven to take best advantage of it.

 

[scullyg40]

If you are going to use it on the road then Quaife (ATB type diff) is the one to go for as plated diffs are noisy / clunky at low speeds, so much so you would think there is something up with the transmission!! Gripper provides a “full lock” and is therefore much better for a track only based car. Gripper needs a change of driving style to get best out of it but does reduce lap times if driven to take best advantage of it.

Can you explain how you need to change your driving style?

 

[JamesBryan]

If you are going to use it on the road then Quaife (ATB type diff) is the one to go for as plated diffs are noisy / clunky at low speeds, so much so you would think there is something up with the transmission!! Gripper provides a “full lock” and is therefore much better for a track only based car. Gripper needs a change of driving style to get best out of it but does reduce lap times if driven to take best advantage of it.

That driving style is.... f**king flat out everywhere! 😂

 

[TheCAB]

Carefully consider useage before altering/ selecting different final drive ratio. Too short and first gear becomes almost non existent. Ideally you would want a longer first gear ratio, search other posts about this subject for more detailed info.

 

[JamesBryan]

Worth noting that the Gripper will need servicing after a year or so i believe and then it's good for 2-3 years depending on which ramp setup you have.

First service is included in the price of the diff.

 

[TheCAB]

A normal diff makes going around corners somewhat easier due to the different rotational speeds of inner/ outer wheels. A car with a locked diff wants to more go straight on in a way. Gripper enables you also to get more drive through corner and get on the power a bit earlier.

 

[JamesBryan]

A normal diff makes going around corners somewhat easier due to the different rotational speeds of inner/ outer wheels. A car with a locked diff wants to more go straight on in a way. Gripper enables you also to get more drive through corner and get on the power a bit earlier.

I think what you're trying to say is make sure your wheels are pointed in the direction you want to go when you plant your foot, because that's where you'll be headed with a plated diff.

 

[scullyg40]

A normal diff makes going around corners somewhat easier due to the different rotational speeds of inner/ outer wheels. A car with a locked diff wants to more go straight on in a way. Gripper enables you also to get more drive through corner and get on the power a bit earlier.

So it takes some getting used to I understand.

 

[Greeny.]

I want a diff.. lots.. but the expensive is putting me off for the amount I use the car, especially with a gripper needing a service every now and then, with a drive in drive out service it’s not gunna be cheap and its an on-going expensive for a 'cheap' track car, if and when I need a box rebuild which I think is coming ill probably go down the Quaife route purely due to lack of on-going expense required other than the yearly gearbox oil changes I do anyway and surely this is still miles ahead of standard?

 

[JamesBryan]

I want a diff.. lots.. but the expensive is putting me off for the amount I use the car, especially with a gripper needing a service every now and then, with a drive in drive out service it’s not gunna be cheap and its an on-going expensive for a 'cheap' track car, if and when I need a box rebuild which I think is coming ill probably go down the Quaife route purely due to lack of on-going expense required other than the yearly gearbox oil changes I do anyway and surely this is still miles ahead of standard?

I went with the Quaife, definitely the best thing I've done.

 

[Philip Griffiths]

Again sorry for the lack of knowledge/lots of questions. Just trying to learn a bit for myself to.

My main tracks would be pembrey and castle Combe. But the plan is to get some more further a field ones on as well. Do not have 1 regular track if they makes sense.

Would there be an issue if I was to fit a gripper into a totally standard box?

I like the idea of both but what’s on my mind is the way you can potentially loose traction on one wheel with a quaife atb? The gripper seems a better option? A better all rounder.

Or am I being a bit dull with that last comment?

Thanks


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[JamesBryan]

Again sorry for the lack of knowledge/lots of questions. Just trying to learn a bit for myself to.

My main tracks would be pembrey and castle Combe. But the plan is to get some more further a field ones on as well. Do not have 1 regular track if they makes sense.

Would there be an issue if I was to fit a gripper into a totally standard box?

I like the idea of both but what’s on my mind is the way you can potentially loose traction on one wheel with a quaife atb? The gripper seems a better option? A better all rounder.

Or am I being a bit dull with that last comment?

Thanks


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Gripper is definitely the choice for dedicated track work.

I'd probably leave the standard final drive in.

 

[banhama]

I had the Gripper in a totally standard box and it was great, I later changed the final drive to suit my regular track

You will use more tyre once you get used to how early you can put down the power.
As the diff Gripper lets you put down all the power even when the car is fully weighted on the outside wheels you can plant your foot as soon as you spot the corner exit, subsequently you will be 'grinding' the driven tyres across the tarmac as you come out of the corner until you straighten up. It feels a bit unkind to the rubber, but it's excellent fun and seems to be the way to get the fastest lap!
Lydden is notoriously hard on tyres and very grippy though, so with a smoother surface and fairly standard tyres you'll more likely induce understeer rather than rip up your rubber

 

[NorthloopCup]

First service is included in the price of the diff.

Erm, not that I’m aware of it’s not mate?

 

[JamesBryan]

Erm, not that I’m aware of it’s not mate?

I've seen a few posts on FB where people have said it was 😅

 

[Eddie555]

I run a Gripper diff with 13/59 final drive and I also run the Megane 5th gear. My car is running 197bhp at 171ftlb. I regularly track my car at Donny,Snetterton, Cadwell Park, Bedford. My car is solely a track Pig. The gain I have from the standard FD and 5th gear is nothing short of amazing, there’s no need to worry about Top speed loss as I’m yet to hit the limiter at any of the tracks I have been to.Although I have on a private runway reached Vmax at 130mph, but even at Snettertons Bentley straight and Bedfords back straight I was nowhere near maxed out.
1 bit of advice I would give is make sure to buy the best clutch you can, I have blown all the standard OE, Valeo,LUK and even a Ktec Helix. I now run a Sachs paddle clutch supplied by PMS.

 

[banhama]

1 bit of advice I would give is make sure to buy the best clutch you can, I have blown all the standard OE, Valeo,LUK and even a Ktec Helix. I now run a Sachs paddle clutch supplied by PMS.

I would totally agree, have a stronger clutch fitted at the same time.
I also have the Sachs Clutch from PMS as I broke the cover on both Valeo and LUK kits.

 

[NorthloopCup]

I've seen a few posts on FB where people have said it was 😅

Oh well it must be true if it’s in there lol! Er, no.

 

[JamesBryan]

Oh well it must be true if it’s in there lol! Er, no.

 

[Superwoman90]

I would totally agree, have a stronger clutch fitted at the same time.
I also have the Sachs Clutch from PMS as I broke the cover on both Valeo and LUK kits.

My plan is to have the Quaiffe fitted over Winter but hadn't considered a stronger clutch, I have already purchased a standard ValeoIn advance. Which Sachs would you recommend on what PMS offer?

 

[JamesBryan]

My plan is to have the Quaiffe fitted over Winter but hadn't considered a stronger clutch, I have already purchased a standard ValeoIn advance. Which Sachs would you recommend on what PMS offer?

Sachs Performance Clutch Kit (std fitment)

Sachs Performance Clutch Kit (std fitment)

www.pure-motorsport.co.uk

@Kev@KAM also sells the same kit if you'd like to support the traders

Sachs Performance Clutch Kit - Renault Clio 2RS 172,182

The UK's number 1 source of quality OE and performance parts at affordable prices. Suppliers of BC Racing, Brembo, Catcams, CL Brakes, Ferodo, Godspeed, Grams, MeisterR, PBS, Pure Motorsport, Renault OE, RTS, Winmax Brakes and many more..

www.kamracing.co.uk

 

[NorthloopCup]

View attachment 1558564

Well that’s definitely a new one on me mate. And not one they’ve ever told me about, but that’s possibly because of how cheap I get the diffs.

 

[Kev@KAM]

The issue with this is no doubt you would have to strip your diff out and send to Gripper.
Thats not straight forward with the Clio at least.

 

[JamesBryan]

Well that’s definitely a new one on me mate. And not one they’ve ever told me about, but that’s possibly because of how cheap I get the diffs.

"We're not giving free services to that tight c**t" were their words i think 😂

 

[JamesBryan]

The issue with this is no doubt you would have to strip your diff out and send to Gripper.
Thats not straight forward with the Clio at least.

Yeah definitely not a job for the DIYer unless they really know how to get one apart.

 

[scullyg40]

I would totally agree, have a stronger clutch fitted at the same time.
I also have the Sachs Clutch from PMS as I broke the cover on both Valeo and LUK kits.

So you need a stronger clutch as well as a shorter driveshaft with a Gripper? Although i have the PMS Roll centre correction with Laguna hubs, which gives 12 mm more track width, so I might get away with that. Also, fitting the Cup subframe with wider track might also be a solution right? I have this in my garage.

 

[NorthloopCup]

So you need a stronger clutch as well as a shorter driveshaft with a Gripper? Although i have the PMS Roll centre correction with Laguna hubs, which gives 12 mm more track width, so I might get away with that. Also, fitting the Cup subframe with wider track might also be a solution right? I have this in my garage.

You wouldn’t need the shorter shaft with that rcc mate. Stronger clutch is because valeo are s**t with even a marginal hp increase, nevermind the extra load from the gripper.

 

[scullyg40]

You wouldn’t need the shorter shaft with that rcc mate. Stronger clutch is because valeo are s**t with even a marginal hp increase, nevermind the extra load from the gripper.

That's good to hear, let's hope my old driveshafts can still handle the extra load. 🤣

 

[Greeny.]

For some reason (because im stupid) I didnt even think about needing an uprated clutch, I assume the same would be recommended for a ATB?