The everlasting ph1 ITB Build **GREEN-BUILD STARTS AT PAGE 100**

[Nafoff]

Was thinking this with them running EHPAS system.
Looking at it, it seems a simple fix just custom mount maybe. Unless Rsport can supply you the cup racer top mount and hope it will work

If you are spacing the top/block mount out then surely that does the same? (in my head anyways)
I wouldn't hold out hope of Rsport being able to provide any more items - apparently this was the last bottom mount they had when sold a fair while back.

But as mentioned in the initial post, apparently these lower mounts are prone to breaking the lungs off the block...

 

[Chambers_RS]

If you are spacing the top/block mount out then surely that does the same? (in my head anyways)
I wouldn't hold out hope of Rsport being able to provide any more items - apparently this was the last bottom mount they had when sold a fair while back.

But as mentioned in the initial post, apparently these lower mounts are prone to breaking the lungs off the block...

Yeah I’d agree about the spacing of the mount.

I didn’t know they were prone to breaking the lungs off the block tbh ?

 

[Nafoff]

Yeah I’d agree about the spacing of the mount.

I didn’t know they were prone to breaking the lungs off the block tbh ?

More facebook heresay....

Having looked at the top mount tonight it does not sit flat with the block, it sits on 3 lugs therefore a plate across the back of it probably won’t be of any real benefit over washers.

 

[Nafoff]

UPDATE:
So a tiny bit more done again tonight. The thought was hopefully to sort things with the engine and the lines the tail end of this week and Saturday and then get the engine back in Sunday, but some personal things are going on that have to take priority - probably for the better as I am not sure the engine is playing ball.

The lines however are looking good now. The rear lines got sent back to Mitch at Pro-line and at no charge Mitch switched out the straight ends to the 90deg ends.
Looking spot on now so the lines can me mounted very soon.

With that looking good my attention turned to the engine and sorting the alternator bracket mounting. As previously mentioned it looked like the top alternator mount needed spacing out. This was done with 3x m10 washers (only 2 pictured) at each bolt + longer bolts.

I then mounted up the lower alternator bracket. The 3x washers on the top mount have spaced it out perfectly and now everything lines up to bolt.
HOWEVER, I feel that the alternator is sat ever so slightly twisted. The lower bracket seems to be pushing it out a bit, not sure how I feel about it. Opinions?

That isn't where the issues end either. Earlier on in the thread I was talking about alternator belts and which ones to order for this set-up. After the below advice I ordered the 5PK 847 as this seemed spot on....

I run a 172 Cup set up like you however a slightly longer belt.
I use this, form Euro Car Parts.

View attachment 1357546

Not my engine but its fits lovely:
View attachment 1357545
I thanks @GrahamS for the belt knowledge.

... but I don't think this is going to work.

The above image is showing the alternator in its closest position (that will still mount to the lower bracket. Unless I haven't figured out how to fit the belt I can not see how it is going to stretch on. I did take some string and measure the routing tonight also and frustratingly it is 847mm.... lol

Am I missing something?
Am I going to have to send these 5PK 847's back and get something longer? I am thinking by looking at the above pictures that this mount doesn't allow as low a mounting as the original mount.

 

[Nafoff]

Been advised on one of these, https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Renault-...531179?hash=item41ebd5cb2b:g:jbAAAOSwa-dWpgHn

Could solve my issue and also mean I don't need to run the washers on the top mount also.

 

[R29TJR]

Sorry the belt didn't work out.

It does look like the lower bracket you are running is holding the alternator higher than the original lower cup bracket.

You could just buy a longer belt, surely the cheapest option to fix?

 

[Djw John]

Yeah that alt is sitting really high, this is more where it should be

I could well be wrong. The Cup set up without HPAS looks like so, or so the internet tells me...

View attachment 1346927

 

[Nafoff]

Sorry the belt didn't work out.

It does look like the lower bracket you are running is holding the alternator higher than the original lower cup bracket.

You could just buy a longer belt, surely the cheapest option to fix?

Not your fault at all mate.
That would be the cheapest option but I am not 100% happy with washering the top mount, how the aternator is sotting so hi and the fact it feels slightly twisted.

I am ordering that new mount which should solve all these issues.... #hopefully
It is also lots smaller and less fussy so even better

 

[R29TJR]

Could you not source a genuine lower bracket?

Mine lined up perfectly.

 

[Nafoff]

Could you not source a genuine lower bracket?
Mine lined up perfectly.

I have a genuine lower bracket, its just massive and bulky so was just going nice and slender.
Good a as a spare though, alternator adjuster bracket like the above now ordered

 

[scotiamr2t]

did you order the bare one or anodised black?

 

[R29TJR]

I have a genuine lower bracket, its just massive and bulky so was just going nice and slender.
Good a as a spare though, alternator adjuster bracket like the above now ordered

Cool. Fingers crossed it resolved the issue. I know a few people have modified the lower original alternator bracket. IIRC @Tomotek did.

 

[Nafoff]

did you order the bare one or anodised black?

Black to match the rocker cover and strut brace. Checked the length and it should be spot on - approx 170mm

Nice and compact. Should solve all the issues and leave me with the original as a spare

 

[Chambers_RS]

Can you not get your hands on a 110a alternator to try? That’s what the racers used looking at the parts catalog on Rsport.
110a has different mounting points so should fit that mount.

 

[Nafoff]

Can you not get your hands on a 110a alternator to try? That’s what the racers used looking at the parts catalog on Rsport. 110a has different mounting points so should fit that mount.

I could, but that other mount is already gone.. the new item is on its way tomorrow.

 

[Nafoff]

UPDATE:
As I anticipated I didn't get as much done as I initially wanted, not necessarily for reasons I could foresee last week however.
I spent a lot of time friday night final checking the routing of the brake lines before then deciding where all the P-clips were going, these were then marked up, drilled, cleaned and then painted to make sure there was no fresh metal exposed.

These were left for around 12 hours before I then set back to work on saturday morning. I set to mount the brake lines through the car, black rivets to match the P-clips and lines. Very happy with the result and much appreciate mitch @Pro-Line Motorsport 's patience with me and these lines.

Rear

Engine bay (I had good length here so could really tuck it up nice and out of the way, this also gives a nice loop/angle into the passenger side arch.

I have not riveted the middle section yet (along the tunnel of the car) as I am going to double up the clips with the fuel line in this area.
This brought me onto my next job - drilling the holes for the fuel lines. 1 in the rear footwell area and the other in the underside of the dash area.
I then set about routing the fuel line through the car to check I was happy.

I have a couple decisions to make about where I use the 2 bulkhead fuel line connectors (or even if I use both) and where to put grommets.

I was thinking about using one in the rear footwell area but am thinking this may be too close to the pump and may be best just with a grommet and to let the line run, very keen to hear opinions on this?

I am very sure I will have one in the dash/bulkhead area. and then pretty sure I will just run a grommet out of the scuttle area, so not much more to do on this before these are sorted, however this is where I had to stop this weekend - a long way off from getting the engine back in... but you know what, it isn't life and death.

I had to make my way pretty sharpish from home Saturday to my wife and her family farm and midday sunday we lost her dad in the fight against a brain tumour.
It proper sucks, Dave was such a nice guy, he welcomed me in from day one and although he had no interest really in cars he stored this for me and drove it backwards and forwards several times on trailers - I will proper miss him....

 

[NorthloopCup]

UPDATE:
As I anticipated I didn't get as much done as I initially wanted, not necessarily for reasons I could foresee last week however.
I spent a lot of time friday night final checking the routing of the brake lines before then deciding where all the P-clips were going, these were then marked up, drilled, cleaned and then painted to make sure there was no fresh metal exposed.

These were left for around 12 hours before I then set back to work on saturday morning. I set to mount the brake lines through the car, black rivets to match the P-clips and lines. Very happy with the result and much appreciate mitch @Pro-Line Motorsport 's patience with me and these lines.

Rear
View attachment 1385558

Engine bay (I had good length here so could really tuck it up nice and out of the way, this also gives a nice loop/angle into the passenger side arch.
View attachment 1385559

I have not riveted the middle section yet (along the tunnel of the car) as I am going to double up the clips with the fuel line in this area.
This brought me onto my next job - drilling the holes for the fuel lines. 1 in the rear footwell area and the other in the underside of the dash area.
I then set about routing the fuel line through the car to check I was happy.

View attachment 1385561
View attachment 1385562
View attachment 1385563
View attachment 1385565
View attachment 1385564

I have a couple decisions to make about where I use the 2 bulkhead fuel line connectors (or even if I use both) and where to put grommets.

I was thinking about using one in the rear footwell area but am thinking this may be too close to the pump and may be best just with a grommet and to let the line run, very keen to hear opinions on this?

I am very sure I will have one in the dash/bulkhead area. and then pretty sure I will just run a grommet out of the scuttle area, so not much more to do on this before these are sorted, however this is where I had to stop this weekend - a long way off from getting the engine back in... but you know what, it isn't life and death.

I had to make my way pretty sharpish from home Saturday to my wife and her family farm and midday sunday we lost her dad in the fight against a brain tumour.
It proper sucks, Dave was such a nice guy, he welcomed me in from day one and although he had no interest really in cars he stored this for me and drove it backwards and forwards several times on trailers - I will proper miss him....

My deepest condolences to you, your wife and family mate. Awful news, but he is at peace now.

 

[Djw John]

I’m really sorry to hear that Neil, condolences to you all.

 

[Nafoff]

My deepest condolences to you, your wife and family mate. Awful news, but he is at peace now.

I’m really sorry to hear that Neil, condolences to you all.

Thank you both, it is good to know he is not suffering anymore.

 

[Nafoff]

@Tomotek @robzracing @pule333 @Chambers_RS I have just been looking at all your project threads to see how you have run your fuel lines, all are different, which may answer my question.

View attachment 1385562

I initially planned fitting a bulkhead connector in the rear footwell area but am thinking this may be too close to the pump and may be best just with a grommet and to let the line run, very keen to hear opinions on this as I have been advised this is a high-wear area, experiences or thoughts guys?

 

[robzracing]

Yep I ran straight through with a grommet. In fact my lines run uninterrupted all the way from the tank, up into the scuttle through another grommet and then to a bulkhead connector at the panel above the master cylinder.
I’ve not had any problems with this so far.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[RuskiWeldFab]

@Tomotek @robzracing @pule333 @Chambers_RS I have just been looking at all your project threads to see how you have run your fuel lines, all are different, which may answer my question.

View attachment 1385562

I initially planned fitting a bulkhead connector in the rear footwell area but am thinking this may be too close to the pump and may be best just with a grommet and to let the line run, very keen to hear opinions on this as I have been advised this is a high-wear area, experiences or thoughts guys?

First of, please accept my condolences. May he rest in peace!

Regarding the lines, I just did the easiest most cost effective way. With a grommet. There is very little space there for a bulkhead connection so I personally think just a pipe through a gromet is fine. Providing it’s secured to chassis to prevent vibration damage etc.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Tomotek]

If your using braided line then I’d say a grommet in the bulkheads would be fine... I used bulkhead fittings as I used solid Aluminium lines connected to braided lines at the ends, so needed the bulkhead to connect either side too ... personal preference really, just make sure there is no chance of chaffing [emoji1360]

 

[Chambers_RS]

I used a bulkhead fitting behind the drivers seat and it was the biggest pain in the arse to fit. Think I drilled 3 holes before I got t right as I didn’t wanna drop the tank. Being able to get a socket in the fitting through the fuel pump hole was a nightmare.

I’ve also been thinking about this as I’ve got a swirl pot to fit and was wondering if I could get away with grommets.

 

[Nafoff]

Thanks all for getting back to me,

First of, please accept my condolences. May he rest in peace!

Thank you, much appreciated.

Regarding the lines, I just did the easiest most cost effective way. With a grommet. There is very little space there for a bulkhead connection so I personally think just a pipe through a gromet is fine. Providing it’s secured to chassis to prevent vibration damage etc.

I used a bulkhead fitting behind the drivers seat and it was the biggest pain in the arse to fit. Think I drilled 3 holes before I got t right as I didn’t wanna drop the tank. Being able to get a socket in the fitting through the fuel pump hole was a nightmare.
I’ve also been thinking about this as I’ve got a swirl pot to fit and was wondering if I could get away with grommets.

This was my thoughts exactly, it is so tight there, especially to get a fitting only 20cm's from the fuel pump. You must have had some patience @Chambers_RS to get that in there.. ha.

If your using braided line then I’d say a grommet in the bulkheads would be fine... I used bulkhead fittings as I used solid Aluminium lines connected to braided lines at the ends, so needed the bulkhead to connect either side too ... personal preference really, just make sure there is no chance of chaffing [emoji1360]

Yep I ran straight through with a grommet. In fact my lines run uninterrupted all the way from the tank, up into the scuttle through another grommet and then to a bulkhead connector at the panel above the master cylinder.
I’ve not had any problems with this so far.

I am sure someone suggested to me (I think it was @Tony Hunter) that it was best to have as few breaks (for bulkhead connections) in the line as possible for safety - makes sense.

There will be no chance of chaffing as I am p-clipping all. I think your execution @robzracing may be what I go for, from what you have said I may also now use a grommet at the bulkhead and then run the bulkhead connector out of the scuttle into the bay - this would mean no chance of leaks in the cabin and also the ability to detach the line from the scuttle/bay side and remove as one with the engine - in my head this now makes the most sense.

I need to have a proper look back over all your threads, I am meant to get notifications but I haven't an it looks like they are all moving on well.

 

[scotiamr2t]

I have ran mine via bulkhead connectors, as god for bid you have a big off i wouldn't want one of the lines being pulled and fraying/bursting inside the car and spraying fuel everywhere.

 

[robzracing]

The only significant movement in the hoses is in the engine bay so I think you'll be fine making the rest of the run in one piece. I've also run lines to a swirlpot assembly in the spare wheel well which are also grommeted. It's all been fine.

 

[Nafoff]

The only significant movement in the hoses is in the engine bay so I think you'll be fine making the rest of the run in one piece. I've also run lines to a swirlpot assembly in the spare wheel well which are also grommeted. It's all been fine.View attachment 1385745

that looks bloody lovely

 

[Nafoff]

UPDATE:
Pretty miniature as I don't have any grommets to suss out hole sizes for fuel lines. However my new alternator mount did turn up today, so was fitted this evening. Has gone on a lot easier than the original item, the alternator is straight and the belt nice and taught, and more importantly it is tucked nice and tight to the engine, all bolts torqued up to spec - I am on the lowest possible setting on the mount though.

The mount is a little bit wonky, but I guess that is why it is rose jointed. I ordered some spacers with it so I could space it out from the block mounts - worked a treat.
A friend has warned me to watch out for the lower mount on the block as he thinks this will be too much weight and pressure on it and they are liable to cracking.... need to watch for that.

Funnily enough pretty much bang on as I finished mounting my bracket the guy who bought my old cup mount off me messaged to say he had received it, but not only that he had to fit it almost instantly... why? well because his other mount broke...

Ahhhhhh facepalm.... lol
I have been chatting this over significantly on facebook with @sonny172cup and pretty sure it is down to not enough thread being used, Sonny has not had issues with his, so hopefully mine follows this pattern

 

[Usr117063]

Where did you get that turnbuckle from and what size/thread is it?

 

[neil a]

If that is your belt under tension in that pic Neil I would say you have more than enough thread engagement for it not to be an issue , I would look to get some new miss alignment spacer to stop the side load though as looks like the turnbuckle is hitting the alternator body. Get them from McGill motorsport.

 

[Nafoff]

Where did you get that turnbuckle from and what size/thread is it?

I posted a link to it further up.

If that is your belt under tension in that pic Neil I would say you have more than enough thread engagement for it not to be an issue , I would look to get some new miss alignment spacer to stop the side load though as looks like the turnbuckle is hitting the alternator body. Get them from McGill motorsport.

I do have another spacer (like the one on the bottom bolt) but i didn’t want to add it and make the bracket more wonky...

However it is spaced out on the top bolt with that washer, it may not look like it, but it isn’t touching.

 

[Nafoff]

Looking at how to run my fuel line and just need to check if this looks right as the bulkhead connection

Can anyone confirm?

 

[robzracing]

Yes, that's how mine are

 

[Nafoff]

Yes, that's how mine are

Great. Just needed to check before setting up tomorrow. Think I may need a straight connector rather than 90deg but will try work out best routing.

Do you think the vice tool is vital when tightening down?

 

[robzracing]

Great. Just needed to check before setting up tomorrow. Think I may need a straight connector rather than 90deg but will try work out best routing.

Do you think the vice tool is vital when tightening down?

Definitely. If you have a bench vice it's easy. Just use a bit of silicone spray while you tighten them. I've never had one leak using AN fittings.

 

[Nafoff]

Definitely. If you have a bench vice it's easy. Just use a bit of silicone spray while you tighten them. I've never had one leak using AN fittings.

Hhhmmmm the routing I am thinking will not allow me to pass the finished item through the car so I may have to do it in-situ. Also I do not have a vice, or the vice tool ?

 

[robzracing]

I think I had to do a couple in-situ for the same reason. It's not impossible, just use EXACTLY the right size spanners as the aluminium is so soft, any slipping will knacker them. An extra pair of hands would help to steady the hose while you pinch it up.

 

[Nafoff]

I think I had to do a couple in-situ for the same reason. It's not impossible, just use EXACTLY the right size spanners as the aluminium is so soft, any slipping will knacker them. An extra pair of hands would help to steady the hose while you pinch it up.

Ah it is good to here it is possible. It will only be the 1 connection too. I have been leant some proper ally spanners for the job so hopefully they will help, no spare hands though.... watch this space

 

[Nafoff]

UPDATE:
A proper boys weekend as the wife was away. I had a load of things I wanted to get sorted on the car and an overhaul on a bike to complete - who'd of thought the bike would be the issue and the car would go swimmingly... It potentially should do though I guess with the amount of questions I ask on here.... anyways....

Following the theme of not seeming to do much but it taking ages there was only really 3 jobs...

FUEL HOSE FITTING
This was the priority of the weekend, I had already decided on the routing and drilled and painted most of the holes through the cabin but there were still further holes to be drilled and the grommet holes needed widening also. Getting all the routing finalised was first, before marking up and drilling the holes. Once these were done they were all painted (as I have done to any other bare metal). I have gone for grommets in the rear footwell and up into the scuttle panel, the scuttle out to the engine bay then uses a bulkhead connection, this is situated right next to the drivers side wing and should give a really nice routing to the fuel rail once the engine is in.

I am glad I asked around a bit about the fittings, it re-assured me and with just taking my time it wasn't a real problem that I didn't have a vice.. hopefully they are all fully secure.

There were a couple area's where I was concerned about the fuel line touching the shell, or the brake lines but have used some mtb inner tube wrapped around the fuel hose to buffer against the paint, and on the brake lines I have used an old piece of fuel hose, all fits perfect...