Top mount - What have i done wrong?

[Luke...]

Ok so changed the top mounts today. One side was collpased before so bought new. All fitted and as far as im aware i havent done anything differently. Couldnt find anything on what order they go when having coilovers so made an educated guess at it. Found on a thread somehwere that the top mount needs to be done up till tight which in my case takes it quite high. Driving is fine, no knocks when going over bumps but obviously as the mount is so tight to the bodywork it rubs when going round corners.

As in the pic, it seems ive done something wrong or is it just a case of loosening it off?

20150221_152510 by felixta22, on Flickr

 

[Luke...]

So i loosened it right off and it still makes the creeking noise when i turn right

 

[STEVE.M]

So i loosened it right off and it still makes the creeking noise when i turn right

Can you confirm what car this is please?Also take the top cap off and post a picture of the underside.
Correct order should be top spring cover,lubricated bearing with metal side against top spring cover,top hat spacer,17mm nut done up tight holding damper rod with allen key.Do not overtighten the top nut,and there should be around a 6mm gap between turret and top cap with car resting on the ground.

 

[Luke...]

Can you confirm what car this is please?Also take the top cap off and post a picture of the underside.
Correct order should be top spring cover,lubricated bearing with metal side against top spring cover,top hat spacer,17mm nut done up tight holding damper rod with allen key.Do not overtighten the top nut,and there should be around a 6mm gap between turret and top cap with car resting on the ground.

Sorry, that should help - 1.2

Is the above order the same for coilovers? i plan to remove the strut again tomorrow and have another look. I have however realised the source of the creaking is actually the tyre of the arch from where i assume the adjuster has wound down when i removed it. I havent lubricated the bearing, it looked like it had already been done but i think i should redo it just incase

 

[STEVE.M]

Sorry, that should help - 1.2

Is the above order the same for coilovers? i plan to remove the strut again tomorrow and have another look. I have however realised the source of the creaking is actually the tyre of the arch from where i assume the adjuster has wound down when i removed it. I havent lubricated the bearing, it looked like it had already been done but i think i should redo it just incase

Well that`s the order I `ve got on my Gaz coilovers,I cannot see how you could do it any other way.
Don`t worry about the pic,Fabi only do the original top cap design with the integral nut,that drops over the 17mm nut.The kit fits all models 98-2005.
The front of the sill may have been bent upwards due to incorrect jacking at some time,which bows the arch liner just above the sill,resulting in the tyre scuffing on it when turning.Worth a look,especially if you have 16 inch rims(172 Rep?)

 

[Luke...]

Well that`s the order I `ve got on my Gaz coilovers,I cannot see how you could do it any other way.
Don`t worry about the pic,Fabi only do the original top cap design with the integral nut,that drops over the 17mm nut.The kit fits all models 98-2005.
The front of the sill may have been bent upwards due to incorrect jacking at some time,which bows the arch liner just above the sill,resulting in the tyre scuffing on it when turning.Worth a look,especially if you have 16 inch rims(172 Rep?)

Yeah 172 rep on turinis with 205 tyres. My coilies (FK) has the inbuilt adjustment for camber which when i removed the coilover today i ensured it was straight/levell when refiting which i havent done before, this could be the issue if before there has always been a small amount of negative camber. I'll have a look at the arch liner when i remove it tomorrow to see if has you say it has bowed, i jack normally from the point on the sill but these are made of cheese haha, so is a little beaten up.

You say top hat spacer? is that standard because i dont think i put a spacer in. The set up at the moment is coilover spring, top spring cover, bearing with metal side on top spring cover, rubber donught thing, bodywork, top hat with 18mm nut

 

[KevF182]

names of the different parts are getting mixed up here I think - when they refer to the top hat spacer, its usually meaning the metal part that sits in the centre of the donut, no bigger than about an inch wide. Not the upper top mount (shown in your pic).

The order is:
top spring platform
bearing
rubber "donut" with the metal "top hat" spacer placed in its centre.
17mm flat nut tightenned down to hold it all together.
This makes up the strut, which fits under the turret/car body.

Once on the ground the upper part of the mounting (wide rubber/metal bit with large nut, as shown in your pic) can be hand tightenned down on the damper rod and it should become tight on the strut before it actualy makes contact with the body/turret.

 

[Luke...]

names of the different parts are getting mixed up here I think - when they refer to the top hat spacer, its usually meaning the metal part that sits in the centre of the donut, no bigger than about an inch wide. Not the upper top mount (shown in your pic).

The order is:
top spring platform
bearing
rubber "donut" with the metal "top hat" spacer placed in its centre.
17mm flat nut tightenned down to hold it all together.
This makes up the strut, which fits under the turret/car body.

Once on the ground the upper part of the mounting (wide rubber/metal bit with large nut, as shown in your pic) can be hand tightenned down on the damper rod and it should become tight on the strut before it actualy makes contact with the body/turret.

Cheers for clearing it up. Yup definatley got everything in the wrong order. This top hat spacer, i dont remember seeing one when i disassembled it, along with the nut. You dont by any chamce have a pic or anything of one?

 

[KevF182]

not got a pic, sorry. will try find a google example...

 

[STEVE.M]

Cheers for clearing it up. Yup definatley got everything in the wrong order. This top hat spacer, i dont remember seeing one when i disassembled it, along with the nut. You dont by any chamce have a pic or anything of one?

Hi Luke,my apoligies as I have lead you up the garden path.1.2 engined(and probably all non sports) clios 98-2005 do not have the top hat spacer.
Perhaps someone with 1.2 experience can jump in and help here?AlexW maybe?If all else fails,Haynes do a manual that covers your car.
Do check the arch liners in situ though.

 

[STEVE.M]

names of the different parts are getting mixed up here I think - when they refer to the top hat spacer, its usually meaning the metal part that sits in the centre of the donut, no bigger than about an inch wide. Not the upper top mount (shown in your pic).

The order is:
top spring platform
bearing
rubber "donut" with the metal "top hat" spacer placed in its centre.
17mm flat nut tightenned down to hold it all together.
This makes up the strut, which fits under the turret/car body.

Once on the ground the upper part of the mounting (wide rubber/metal bit with large nut, as shown in your pic) can be hand tightenned down on the damper rod and it should become tight on the strut before it actualy makes contact with the body/turret.

Absolutely spot on for 172/182 but non sports are different Kev.

 

[Luke...]

Hi Luke,my apoligies as I have lead you up the garden path.1.2 engined(and probably all non sports) clios 98-2005 do not have the top hat spacer.
Perhaps someone with 1.2 experience can jump in and help here?AlexW maybe?If all else fails,Haynes do a manual that covers your car.
Do check the arch liners in situ though.

ahh ok, no worries. So unlike sports, the non sports dont have a nut to hold the coilover together, it uses the top hat to hold it? @AlexW steve said you might be able to help?

 

[AlexW]

I haven't read, but top mounts are no different between sport and non sport at all.

Looks to me like OP has done something wrong/missed something.

Remove coilover, photograph top mount etc

 

[Luke...]

I haven't read, but top mounts are no different between sport and non sport at all.

Looks to me like OP has done something wrong/missed something.

Remove coilover, photograph top mount etc

Im pretty sure im missing a nut somewhere :S

20150222_123955 by felixta22, on Flickr

 

[Luke...]

So had a look at a few pics and looks like im missing a nut after the rubber donut. Does it bolt on stright after the bearing or is there a washer before?

 

[DannyR]

Your missing the tiny little brass bolt

 

[Luke...]

Your missing the tiny little brass bolt

is that after the bearing? is there a washer between the two or is it straight ater it? just thinking wouldnt it damage the bearing if tightening the bolt onto it?

 

[STEVE.M]

is that after the bearing? is there a washer between the two or is it straight ater it? just thinking wouldnt it damage the bearing if tightening the bolt onto it?

The missing parts are still on the shocks you have taken off surely?
You will need spring compressors to remove them safely!!!

 

[Luke...]

The missing parts are still on the shocks you have taken off surely?

Yeah dug out the old shocks and found the 2 brass nuts. Woops been running without them for a while Question is, im assuming they go after the rubber donut and bolt onto the bearing but doesnt this damage the bearing itself if your tightening a nut straight onto it? if that make sense

 

[STEVE.M]

Yeah dug out the old shocks and found the 2 brass nuts. Woops been running without them for a while Question is, im assuming they go after the rubber donut and bolt onto the bearing but doesnt this damage the bearing itself if you tightening a nut stright onto it? if that make sense

Put your coil overs together exactly the same as your old shocks.
You will need spring compressors to remove the nuts safely.If you dont have any,put your original shocks back on for now,
if the car has to used for work tomorrow.

 

[Luke...]

Put your coil overs together exactly the same as your old shocks.
You will need spring compressors to remove the nuts safely.If you dont have any,put your original shocks back on for now,
if the car has to used for work tomorrow.

Yeah the car needs to be used tomorrow so kind of needs to go back together today. The old shocks and springs and all apart in a box with a bag of nuts/etc. As their apart i cant use them as a quide for my coilovers but have got the 2 brass nuts i need. I think i know there they bolt on but dont know if i need a washer or anything? as surely bolting the nut onto the bearing isnt good for it?

 

[Mr R.]

You are missing a tubed nut, the new style of nut has the spacer built it.

 

[Mr R.]

You can buy them from Renault, message Adam on here at Wolverhampton Renault.

 

[Luke...]

You can buy them from Renault, message Adam on here at Wolverhampton Renault.

so the tubed nut goes after the bearing and the spacers sits within the rubber donut so to speak? i have a bag of bits from when i removed the normal springs, would i have anything like that in there?

 

[Mr R.]

It goes spring, spring top, bearing, rubber mount and then the tube nut which holds it all together.
Then put the shock into the car then you fit the top hat metal bit with a nyloc nut.

 

[Luke...]

It goes spring, spring top, bearing, rubber mount and then the tube nut which holds it all together.
Then put the shock into the car then you fit the top hat metal bit with a nyloc nut.

yeah thats what im missing the tube nut. so before the new style what was used? a spacer then a nut? as i have what looks like a spacer in the box of suspension bits

 

[Mr R.]

Yes it would have been a tube spacer and a very thin nut.

 

[STEVE.M]

Yeah the car needs to be used tomorrow so kind of needs to go back together today. The old shocks and springs and all apart in a box with a bag of nuts/etc. As their apart i cant use them as a quide for my coilovers but have got the 2 brass nuts i need. I think i know there they bolt on but dont know if i need a washer or anything? as surely bolting the nut onto the bearing isnt good for it?

Sorry I haven`t done a 1.2L.Whatever you need should be in the bag or stuck to the old bearings?I`m not sure you could get a socket inside the bearing to do up the nut anyway?I do know the 1.2L does not have the top hat spacer,as wanted to rob one off a 1.2L to replace a damaged one I had on my 172,but it was a different set up.Best of luck with it.

 

[Luke...]

Yes it would have been a tube spacer and a very thin nut.

Sorry I haven`t done a 1.2L.Whatever you need should be in the bag or stuck to the old bearings?I`m not sure you could get a socket inside the bearing to do up the nut anyway?I do know the 1.2L does not have the top hat spacer,as wanted to rob one off a 1.2L to replace a damaged one I had on my 172,but it was a different set up.Best of luck with it.

So i think i have it sorted, will use the small nuyt and spacer for the time being and order new ones off adam for delivery asap. Will report back as will probably have issues

 

[STEVE.M]

You are missing a tubed nut, the new style of nut has the spacer built it.

The new style nut/spacer is useless,as it becomes threadbound 5mm before it seats on the bearing and knocks like anything and will likely destroy the shock damper rod .Avoid.
Also as I said non cups are a different set up.

 

[STEVE.M]

So i think i have it sorted, will use the small nuyt and spacer for the time being and order new ones off adam for delivery asap. Will report back as will probably have issues

If you have found a spacer your in business.Forget about new style nuts,you have what you need.

 

[Mr R.]

Not on my Bilsteins it didn't, i did a dry build before i fitted them and all seemed to be fine.

 

[Luke...]

put it all back together, luckily i only removed 1 side and only had 1 spacer. Had an issue where the spacer was too big and wasnt sitting flush, as plan to get new ones i just chopped it down and all went back together fine. Will order some new spacers up tomorrow

 

[STEVE.M]

put it all back together, luckily i only removed 1 side and only had 1 spacer. Had an issue where the spacer was too big and wasnt sitting flush, as plan to get new ones i just chopped it down and all went back together fine. Will order some new spacers up tomorrow

What was the thickness of the spacer?I assume you assembled it in this order,bearing-spacer-nut?

 

[Luke...]

What was the thickness of the spacer?I assume you assembled it in this order,bearing-spacer-nut?

Cant remember tbh, i think around 15mm, needed to be around 10. Yup assembled, spring, spring platform, bearing round the right way, rubber donut thing, spacer, brass nut. Then put on the car and top hat bolted down

 

[STEVE.M]

Cant remember tbh, i think around 15mm, needed to be around 10. Yup assembled, spring, spring platform, bearing round the right way, rubber donut thing, spacer, brass nut. Then put on the car and top hat bolted down

You do have a 6mm gap between what you are describing as the top hat and the top of the turret with the wheels straight?
The spacer & nut sit inside the donut(doughnut?) which normally remains in situ under the turret when the shock assembly is dropped.
It`s worth lubricating the hole in the centre of the donut with red rubber grease to stop creaking noises when turning from lock to lock when parking.
Order the original 1.2L spacers,not 172/182 modified items.

 

[STEVE.M]

Not on my Bilsteins it didn't, i did a dry build before i fitted them and all seemed to be fine.

Interesting.I also have some spax`s that presented this problem with threadlocking.I will measure the length of the threads and report back.
I suspect the Bilsteins are manufactured with longer threads to facilitate the use of solid top mounts.

 

[Luke...]

You do have a 6mm gap between what you are describing as the top hat and the top of the turret with the wheels straight?
The spacer & nut sit inside the donut(doughnut?) which normally remains in situ under the turret when the shock assembly is dropped.
It`s worth lubricating the hole in the centre of the donut with red rubber grease to stop creaking noises when turning from lock to lock when parking.
Order the original 1.2L spacers,not 172/182 modified items.

I didnt measure exactly but i would say i had approx 6mm gap between the top hat and turret. Yup put the donut on then spacer inside the donut then small brass nut on top.
Didnt think of that, good idea greasing up the donut, but im pretty sure that shouldnt move at all if im right? as its the bearing that should turn and the spacer/nut stays in place?

 

[STEVE.M]

I didnt measure exactly but i would say i had approx 6mm gap between the top hat and turret. Yup put the donut on then spacer inside the donut then small brass nut on top.
Didnt think of that, good idea greasing up the donut, but im pretty sure that shouldnt move at all if im right? as its the bearing that should turn and the spacer/nut stays in place?

The whole shock assembly rotates on the bearing!

 

[Luke...]

The whole shock assembly rotates on the bearing!

from the bearing down though right. As in the donut thing doesnt move at all?