Track day suspension (KW V2s?)

[The Dominator]

I do yes, But have not used them on track yet as a recent purchase if you use your car for both and dont want to spend over the 1k mark this would be my suggestion but then opinions vary

 

[Cup_Phil]

Do you track your car?

My opinion is to keep what you've got and go with a set of AST 1's with topmounts when funds allow. The 1's are more than ample for track and race, hell the burpspeed guys still run AST 1's on their car and they're front running. Obviously if you can afford more go for the AST 2's.

I really really really can't lol
They drove me literally insane for the last year. Lovely on the road and for a quick blast - but as soon as I fitted the cage and added 40kg over the rear the back was way way way too soft. I've already sold the bilsteins anyway so that's just not an option

Budget is £800-1k max and I need something for next year

 

[The Dominator]

I really really really can't lol
They drove me literally insane for the last year. Lovely on the road and for a quick blast - but as soon as I fitted the cage and added 40kg over the rear the back was way way way too soft. I've already sold the bilsteins anyway so that's just not an option

Budget is £800-1k max and I need something for next year

Spax RSX

 

[Cup_Phil]

I've read about 4 people now though that have said they don't fit Cups as they're 2mm too narrow to fit the hub and have to go back to be fixed.

I might just leave it on standard suspension at this rate lol
I did the nurburgring on standard dampers and eibach pro springs - was probably the best it's ever handled to be honest lol

 

[Chip-mk1]

I like ours on cup dampers and eibach, and you can always add a whiteline ARB to make it a little more tail biased.

Not a racecar setup by any means though!

 

[Cup_Phil]

I've got a whiteline ARB

 

[Tony Hunter]

Do you track your car?

My opinion is to keep what you've got and go with a set of AST 1's with topmounts when funds allow. The 1's are more than ample for track and race, hell the burpspeed guys still run AST 1's on their car and they're front running. Obviously if you can afford more go for the AST 2's.

Yes Nick, but our 1's have been revalved to accept up to 1000lbs springs. The ones that you had , and Lewis is selling are exactly the same.
Dan Freeman just said to Curtis,"build me some the same as Burpspeeds" lol.

 

[mark123]

I have bilsteins currently - but with absolutely no adjustment at all other than height they've really frustrated me on track this last year.
The car has been really understeery and everyone I've taken out has said "stiffen the back up" to which I've had to reply "I can't"

A whiteline ARB might help you stiffen up the rear a bit, assuming you don't have one already?

 

[Cup_Phil]

I've got a whiteline ARB

A whiteline ARB might help you stiffen up the rear a bit, assuming you don't have one already?

Arrghhh it makes Lewis's AST's sound really tempting but £900 + new spanners + freeing them up so I can corner weight it + 182 hubs ...

 

[Tony Hunter]

Theses are all clean and adjust dead easy, no spanner needed as they have slots in them, can be turned with an allen key or similar.

I'd have them for a spare set if I could afford to have them sat around as they are newer than ours.

182 hubs are cheap.

 

[Cup_Phil]

Oh right Lewis seemed to think the height adjustors were seized and they needed spanners to adjust?

 

[Tony Hunter]

I cleaned all these up before selling.

Easy when on the bench anyway,WD40 and a bit of rag, job done.

 

[Chip-mk1]

Height adjusters are cheap and very easy to cut off. So never a real drama.

 

[Nick172Cup]

I've got a set of 182 cup pack hubs, with bearings and abs sensors Phil.

 

[Tony Hunter]

LOL, poor Phil.

 

[Nick172Cup]

Oh and btw, when I sold these the threads were clean as so adjusting them shouldn't be a problem. Also they dont have adjusters as iirc AST they dont supply them. Though I know who has an adjuster tool in this thread.

 

[Tony Hunter]

 

[Cup_Phil]

Argghhhh seriously guys?

Are there any cons to fitting 182 hubs? I don't need the abs ring/sensor as obviously 172 cup doesn't have ABS
Does it change offset or do anything daft like that

I think my heads gonna explode lol

 

[Chip-mk1]

Judging by the offset of the trophy wheels, it must be slightly wider offset I would have thought.

Thats only going to be a good thing though on a racecar clio surely?

 

[Cup_Phil]

Yeah it would be a very good thing as I need 20mm spacers on the front at the moment on the ET43 offset 2118's
If they're wider that would save me some money on spacers and I can just put some 15m blocks of steel behind the rear hubs - job done

Head's literally gonna explode lol

 

[Dan519]

I've read about 4 people now though that have said they don't fit Cups as they're 2mm too narrow to fit the hub and have to go back to be fixed.

it's absolute nonsense. For a start cups have the same hub spacing as a normal 172

If you look at the plates, they're designed to be tight, they are attached to the strut in such a way that they act as a clamping spring (something which SPAX felt was important to do with the camber adjustment relying on clamping force) you just have to part them slightly when assembling

You can see the welds do not go all the way to the edge, deliberately to allow this flexibility

 

[Dan519]

Email reply sent to me when discussing this reported "issue"

The fact is O.E style brackets are always loose because they are designed to clamp around the shockabsorber tube as well as the hub when tightened.
The Spax brackets fit half way around the tube. The load is spread over a large contact area with the body tube. The material used for the brackets is quite flexi to allow it to flex without fatigue issues this does allow it to bend to make it fit!.

Many aftermarket dampers simply have a lazercut plate butted up to the body tube. The problem can be that the contact area with the tube is small and the brackets can tear away from the body tube around the welds. Also the highest stress levels are at the welds which have altered the structure of the metal around them.

i should mention that the cases you've mentioned were not apparent to me, maybe if they'd gone through me they'd have been given the correct information

 

[Cup_Phil]

I'll ignore that nonsense then - I did think when they said they were 1.5mm too narrow that I'm 90% sure my bilsteins flexed more than that lol

Ok current winner for me I think is spax, you get adjustable damping in both directions, full coilover rears etc..
I'm gonna have a bit of a weekend "sleeping on it" and if nothing changes I'll be giving Dan a ring on monday

AST would be lovely - but they're realistically gonna be £1400 for new or £900 + hubs for 2nd hand - I can't justify at this point in the Clios life spending that amount on coilovers just for 6-8 track days and a euro road trip

 

[Dan@SJM]

generally you can get most things unsiezed using a bit of force and soaking things for a bit. I left Emma's bilsteins soaking in a parts washer overnight, and then used a set of stilsons with a 4ft scaffold tube to undo it, It put up a bit of a fight, but was fine after a few rotations..

 

[LewisTaylor]

Oh right Lewis seemed to think the height adjustors were seized and they needed spanners to adjust?

No either i have miss worded my ad, or you've read it wrong.

I haven't tried adjusting them, i don't know if they have seized, can't see why as the threads are minty clean. I don't want to sell them and end up in Chris205/BlackGold's position, being accused of saying the wrong thing, just want to cover my a*se.

Also i'm not actually that far from you Phil, so i'd happily meet you in the middle so you can inspect them before buying

Didn't realise they had been re-valved and springs changed to be the same as yours Tony, bit of good news Does that mean they are more valuable?

Also is Nick172cup has a set of 182 cup pack hubs waiting to go, it's a bit of a no brainer really? Wider track too with them...

I can't comment on the Spax as i have never used them, but didn't you say yourself last year people were raving about how good the Bilstiens were, now look where you are? Just saying that's all, AST are race proven...

 

[Cup_Phil]

Argghhhhhh shhhhhhh lol

 

[Nick172Cup]

Lewis has the point. Spend the extra now, then your set for when you want to go racing.

 

[mark123]

Something else to complicate your decision.

I have sportline 1s with 80/70 N/mm springs, which I think is softer than the Burpseed car and I wouldn't want to do a road trip round europe in it. I still drive to quite a few tracks days and non race events but certain bumps are painful lol.

 

[LewisTaylor]

I'm pretty sure Phil's car is being Trailered...

 

[BIGASH]

I personally wouldn't be changing hub's if it was my car, you are then having hub's with more expensive bearings, Driveshafts have to be changed too don't they due to length? The track rods are longer on the cup hub variants too. I would either go with the spax or call and get a price on the sportline 1's without the top mounts, I think you might be surprised. I wouldn't dick about with hubs but maybe that's just me

 

[Cup_Phil]

I've sent Josh a message asking about the price of new, I can't see it being much less than £1,300 at best though

From what I've read/been told the 182 cup hubs go straight on with the 172 cup driveshafts and track rod ends. I found that a bit difficult to believe as if they sit further out I would have thought you'd need longer driveshafts - but apparently not. I believe Nick ran 182 cup hubs on his 172 cup.

I didn't realised the 182 cup bearings were more than 172 cup ones? Weird

 

[Cup_Phil]

I'm pretty sure Phil's car is being Trailered...

It's probably being trailered to Adenau an then driven around europe. I'm not too fussed if it's quite harsh, both my old 106's ran Group N Bilsteins.

I'd rather have a slightly harder ride when I go out at weekends playing than a ride that's too soft on track lol

 

[dmallett]

Spax with the AST top mounts is what I ran on track twice, round the ring and everyday.

I cant say a bad word about them, plenty of adjustment and always a nice drive. On top of that my car was never uncomfy to be in.

This is them after being on the car for 7months, they still adjusted fine.

 

[Chip-mk1]

I didn't realised the 182 cup bearings were more than 172 cup ones? Weird

They are physically bigger.

 

[Cup_Phil]

Crap that must mean the driveshafts are bigger on the end too then - so I'd need 182 driveshafts

 

[BIGASH]

Crap that must mean the driveshafts are bigger on the end too then - so I'd need 182 driveshafts

Not necessarily mate the inner diameter and thickness could be the same but I still wouldn't do it lol!

 

[Cup_Phil]

lol I'm turning to drink lol

 

[Dan519]

Crap that must mean the driveshafts are bigger on the end too then - so I'd need 182 driveshafts

I've fitted 182 cup shafts to a 172 cup (center bearing carrier being an upgrade IMO, giving equal length shafts) and no issues. Can't see why it would be different the other way round. The bearings are only about 4mm wider, but the OD of the bearing is about 10mm bigger.

Not a lot of point to doing it though really, there was a point to it when choices were so limited a few years ago, but they're really not now

 

[Cup_Phil]

Yeah but if I can get the hubs for virtually nothing and it would allow me to fit Lewis's AST's without changing shafts/bottom arms/track rod ends - worth doing surely?

 

[Chip-mk1]

Yeah but if I can get the hubs for virtually nothing and it would allow me to fit Lewis's AST's without changing shafts/bottom arms/track rod ends - worth doing surely?

Agreed, well worth doing

And the larger bearings are a good upgrade for reliability anyway I would imagine.