Turbo flutter help please????

[ksykes23]

Hi, I removed the dump valve on my 1.2TCE clio that the previous owner had on. I plugged one end off with a metal cap and on the other end i kept a little bit of the tube on and plugged that with a screw. Now instead of the pssssst sound you get from the dump valve i get a flutter sound, obviously by the air getting diverted back into the turbo.

A few questions

is this bad for the turbo?
what setup does a stock tce have compared to what i have?

thanks

 

[Mark-F]

its now as it would be from new. some manufacturer turbo systems use a recirculating dump valve (punto, uno, cosworths, ?subarus, etc) it isnt bad for the turbo unless its running high boost, the flutter is the actuator as the boost has nowhere to go when it shuts so it effectively stalls the turbo. if it runs high boost theres danger of shattering the blades but even then its only unlikely thatd happen.

seach online for more info

 

[ksykes23]

Yeah i think i read somewhere about it....when its running high boost (which as far a i know, mine is just standard) thats when its starts surging which is bad for the blades, but with low pressure it shouldnt really damage the turbo, just stall it. Now im glad i get a fun flutter noise inside the car as opposed to a f*ing annoying hissssssss dumpalve sound half the city can hear! Cheers bud

 

[Mark-F]

no worries. just dont ever buy a bleed valve or boost controller, waste of money and will break your car lol

 

[DIDITNO]

Compressor surge is awesome, as soon as i got the old turbo lump in the williams i binned the dump valves, yes it had two. Mine ran medium ish boost, ie 15psi in the end with no issues what so ever, so standard set up on yours should be fine.

 

[ksykes23]

Nah not messing around with the turbo etc now, if i wanted a fast car atm i would save for a sport lol just wanted rid of that chav valve

 

[Yellow Dave]

isn't actuator flutter and compressor surge two different things?

every turbocharged car will get actuator flutter noise, it's just typically not likely to be heard. I've noticed it once or twice in my Golf TDi on cold quiet nights.

Compressor surge I thought of as described above as the boost pressure flows back against the turbo veins. this sound can generally be amplified with the use of an aftermarket airfilter / airbox instead of the standard OE airbox as this has a habit of muffling the sound. This was certainly the case on my old 5 GTT

 

[Mark-F]

you could be right, i thought they were the same thing to be honest, just how it was explained to me years ago

 

[Laine_16v]

isn't actuator flutter and compressor surge two different things?

every turbocharged car will get actuator flutter noise, it's just typically not likely to be heard. I've noticed it once or twice in my Golf TDi on cold quiet nights.

Compressor surge I thought of as described above as the boost pressure flows back against the turbo veins. this sound can generally be amplified with the use of an aftermarket airfilter / airbox instead of the standard OE airbox as this has a habit of muffling the sound. This was certainly the case on my old 5 GTT

There is no such thing as actuator flutter?

The flutter should never be heard as long as the pressure release device (BOV, Recirc, Divertor e.t.c) on the car is functioning, your golf included.

Compressor stall noises made by the excess air pressure being 'chopping' by the compressor wheel as its flows back through the turbo the wrong way.

Compressor surge is a where (i believe), the turbo is incorrectly specced for the engine (in some circumstances), and it is forcing too much air at a given point that the engine cant consume. Please someone correct me on this as im sure thats not right

 

[Chip-mk1]

Laine is correct on all those points.

Actuators dont flutter or chatter or do anything else Jeremy Clarkson said about turbos cars which had "wastegate chatter" and entered a myth into popular culture.

Compressor stall is where the air comes back towards the turbo and slows it down (this creates a noise from the air hitting the blades, blow on a desk fan you will get similar)

Compressor surge is effectively stall but during times of load so the turbo is still spinning at the same time as its stalling, this is where the engine simply isnt efficient enough to swallow anything like the amount of air the turbo is flowing, this has a similar noise to stall and is horrific for the turbo reliability wise.

 

[r&skxa]

The flutter is from the K&N....I used to get it on the Volvo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CyKdfcX0K6Q&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Refit the old airbox and it should disappear. Although I wonder if the old owner has blanked off the diverter valve and thats what your hose is supposed to be connected to.

 

[Chip-mk1]

Its not actaully originating from the K&N its merely that the K&N doesnt mask it like the standard one does.

 

[ksykes23]

Is it possible to have a valve where i cant hear anything during release of the accelerator? Currently im getting flutter during nearly every gear change and everytime i release the accelerator. Its not particularly quiet either. I do also have an aftermarket induction kit/air filter (cone shaped thing)....sorry....poor at mechanics :/

 

[Chip-mk1]

If you put the standard filter box back on, that will get rid of most of the noise.

A recirc valve would help too, its like a dump valve but puts the air back into the inlet again rather than to atmosphere.

 

[ksykes23]

Tbh. The noise I can live with....the main thing is that I dont want to damage the turbo or decrease its life.

 

[r&skxa]

Its not actaully originating from the K&N its merely that the K&N doesnt mask it like the standard one does.

The air filter certainly echoes it though. What you can't usually hear you can with the K&N. If you put your hand or head over it, you can feel it

 

[Chip-mk1]

recirc valve would be kinder than not having one, but at low boost it probably wont be an issue

 

[ksykes23]

Yeah as far as i know, the boost will be minimal.....probs just the air filter making it sound more extreme than it is. Btw thanks for sending me that plug and tubing mate

 

[andre580]

some pictures about OEM dump valve

 

[Tutuur]

Tadaa, probably this one is blocked off so the dumpvalve he/they placed becomes active

 

[BrianB]

Did u notice any effect in the way it drove when it was stalling? Slower on pickup or more lag ect??

 

[ksykes23]

Not really mate, only drove it for a day since ive done it so will be able to monitor it better 2moro, but i didnt notice much difference. I think with the size of the turbo its not gonna matter too much.