Valver Injectors

BUTRE · Mar 20, 2003

Ok, alot of work on getting this and still something is missing.

Valver uses Bosch 0 280 150 130 injectors.
Really hard to find on the web numbers for this fuel spitters.

http://www.powerpage.dk/produkter/pic/injectors.pdf http://www.powerpage.dk/produkter/pic/injectors.pdf

Only found this pdf. Nice uh? ok it flows 185cc/min but at what fuel pressure?!?!?!?!? 3bar? I think the valver has 3bar pressure on the rail. no?

once again... Couldnt Renault made the car a little more "friendly"?!?!

BenR · Mar 21, 2003

Whats unfriendly about it!!??

BenR · Mar 21, 2003

and whats missing?

BUTRE · Mar 21, 2003

185cc/min flow.. but at what pressure?!

BenR · Mar 21, 2003

oh......

get a pressure gauge on teh fuel rail adaptor!!!

My, you can spend hrs on the net looking but not 10 mins getting it!!!

need to borrow a pressure tester?

Nick Read · Mar 21, 2003

Bearing in mind Ive not been working on mine for some time now, but I seem to remember standard fuel pressure is 2.5 bar, rising half a bar on open throttle.

BenR · Mar 21, 2003

3 Bar........+/- 0.3 bar

bondy · Mar 21, 2003

ben u up for a blast on sunday with me and arron

BenR · Mar 21, 2003

unfortunately i have to take the GF to the airport at 4pm....so i wont be there....but im about on monday but your probably working....

I might able to pop over after dropping her off, but i have no idea what sort of times your doing stuff..

Any details on when/where your meeting? how long?

bondy · Mar 21, 2003

no details as yet wen we are all avaliable see how arron is fixed he has my number

BenR · Mar 21, 2003

aaron is fixed!!??

is he having "THE op"???

would love to meet up, but i guess your working monday......me and aaron are free on monday and i havea sneaky suspision that well be spending alot of time at a particular roundabout....well 2...lol

Im bringing my camera and tripod.....catch some action photos, only wish we had a vidcam.....

shame your not free on monday, then teh rds will be really empty!

BTW, he told me your exhaust is a screamer!!!!

bondy · Mar 21, 2003

its loud thats for sure. possibly a bit to loud. lets us know wen your out next

BenR · Mar 21, 2003

will do

BUTRE · Mar 22, 2003

"#$"#%!"#$%!#$%!#$&!$#% sometimes I cant tell if its your eyes that are slow or your ... (brain is a too strong word)!

185cc/min is a flow taken from the pdf file! they dont say at what pressure it flows 185cc/min! Thats my doubt!!! knowing the pressure you can estimate how much it will flow at higher pressure.

"#!$"#&$"#$(&%"(!#&$%"#&($("#($&#")"#$)%&)"#&"#%)!)(%

yes I know you can get the injectors tested at diferente pressures on a bench... ya ya.

BenR · Mar 22, 2003

LOL!!!
i know you fool!!! but stop asking silly questions!! lol

Its 3 bar......or again, you could test it!

Even if you up the presure to 4bar, its max flow rate wills till exceed what you will probably be able to get out of it, and when you mapping it, just map it, if you run out of flow, get larger injectors.........stop upping the fuel pressure!

BUTRE · Mar 22, 2003

how did I know what you were going to say??? damn!

I think you could get 3.5bar at the rail, using std fuel pump. this will increase the flow by a bit and it could be what it was needed for the bhp appear when WOT.

its going to be tested yes, but first its always wise to make some math so you know where to start.

maciek · Mar 22, 2003

Ive been told, that std cossie/Delta integrale, D. EVO... Bosch injectors are straighforward swap.

maciek · Mar 22, 2003

And I cant believe in something here... valver has the same injectors as Willy. thats sure (at least renault uses the same replacement part...)

185cc/min and est. 37hp per injector would mean max. 148 hp on 4 cylinders. How is that supposed to be true? if the injectors sits in a willy? I dont believe it.

this is renault:

early Valver (F7P 720) 77 00 855 369 INJECTOR ---3 x 1
later Valver (F7P 722) 77 00 855 369 INJECTOR ---3 x 1
willy (F7R 700) 77 00 855 369 INJECTOR ---3 x 1
R19 91 (F7P 700) 77 00 745 482 FUEL INJECTOR R19 ---3 x 1
later R19 (F7P 704) 77 00 855 369 INJECTOR ---3 x 1

BUTRE · Mar 22, 2003

thats renault PN for the inj. not the bosch PN.

maciek, but does the valver and the willy have the same fuel pressure at the rail? I dont know.

maciek · Mar 22, 2003

theyre supposed to be the same...
they use different rail, the regulator is the same though.

valver:
pressure reg. 77 00 853 935 REGULATOR ---3 x 1
rail : 77 00 850 483 (not in price list) x 1

Will
77 00 861 019 PIPE FUEL 19 ---3 x 1
77 00 853 935 REGULATOR ---3 x 1

and in the RENAULT specs: ( I uploaded it: http://racing.neostrada.pl/bible/will.pdf http://racing.neostrada.pl/bible/will.pdf )
it says 3.0 bar +/- 0.2 at 0 vacuum

BUTRE · Mar 23, 2003

Bosch injectors always start with a 0 280 ### ### number.

77 00 ### ### is a part-number from renault.
ex: my ecu is HOM77 00 850 369 which is the renault part-number.

BenR · Mar 23, 2003

Isnt 185cc per min the roughly 156bhp/min?

ANd is this peak flow with open injectors? flow will reduce alot when they are pulsed.........

Any injecotr with the same O ring seal will fit.......just go look!

Nick Read · Mar 23, 2003

AFAIK the parts list is correct Maciek - the Willy and 16v injectors are the same yellow/orange topped injectors, the 19 had two different versions neither of which were the same as in the Clio. Also the fuel pressure is the same, to my knowledge, in the 16v and the Willy. I think the pump will handle pushing 3.5 bar if you need it, Im sure at one time I had it running at around 3.5 and it had no problem holding at 3.5 baseline pressure and then blipping up to 4 bar on sharp throttle opening.

maciek · Mar 23, 2003

Quote: Originally posted by BUTRE on 23 March 2003

Bosch injectors always start with a 0 280 ### ### number.

77 00 ### ### is a part-number from renault.
ex: my ecu is HOM77 00 850 369 which is the renault part-number.

Of course I know this... but this was just an indication, that they (valver + willy)share same parts...

maciek · Mar 23, 2003

Quote: Originally posted by BenR on 23 March 2003

Isnt 185cc per min the roughly 156bhp/min?

ANd is this peak flow with open injectors? flow will reduce alot when they are pulsed.........

Any injecotr with the same O ring seal will fit.......just go look!

they just need same voltage, and resistance, and plug...

the power I quoted is assumtion for "90% open" time

BenR · Mar 23, 2003

Then why quote max on 4 clylinders?

BUTRE · Mar 24, 2003

without knowing at what pressure was tested the inj to get 185cc/min, we cant estimate nothing!

btw, I really think you can not use the std ecu for TBs on a valver/willy.

first, valver/willy dont feature seq injection just because it is needed a camshaft sensor on the inlet cam. Ecu needs to know the position of the lobs. Batch-fire? I guess.

second, how can you plug in the map sensor on TBs? maybee a doll question but Its needed because the std ecu needs the map sensor.

ya BenR, std ecu is really crap!

maciek · Mar 24, 2003

Quote: Originally posted by BenR on 23 March 2003

Then why quote max on 4 clylinders?

isnt it better not to keep injectors open wide all time? - esp as the injectors in clio are deep in the inlet ports...

BenR · Mar 24, 2003

Maciek, not the point, you quoted injecotrs MAX flow for power, then said it was 90%....if its 90%, say it forst time round, thats all....or you will confuse people.

BUTRE: the std ecu on most manufactured cars wont be able to run throttle bodies. I told you a long time ago not to bother fiddling with teh std ECU for TBs, just get stand alone management, it will mak life far easier.

MAP sensor, you dont run one on TBs as there is no common plenam and you get horrible fluctuations.

You dont need a camshaft sensor, you can still use the CAS.

BUTRE · Mar 24, 2003

its not healthy to have the injectors always opened... they will heat up and burn till death. The safest line is up to 85%. More than that, boost up pressure on the rail or fit bigger inj.

If the best is what you want, use another 4 inj in the trumpet... or just out of it.

this 8 inj setup was already discussed.

BenR · Mar 24, 2003

i know! lol

but again, when you state max flow @ whatever pressure (now settled on the 3 bar) you state max flow, NOT flow @ whatever pulse rate, you guys are getting yourselves all mixed up over details, which make the diff.

twin injector setups, in theory nice, in practice, gains are so tiny for the work.....were talking gains like 3bhp at peak power rpm, not to emntion torque. Then, all teh work with finding teh right crossover point, how much to runt it at, etc etc...not worth it

Fred@BTM · Mar 25, 2003

Who was moaning a few weeks back that the forum wasnt technical anymore?????

maciek · Mar 25, 2003

when you state max flow @ whatever pressure (now settled on the 3 bar) you state max flow, NOT flow @ whatever pulse rate, you guys are getting yourselves all mixed up over details, which make the diff.

all right allright....

I know this.. this was just - quicker write than think...

BenR · Mar 25, 2003

LOL

BenR · Mar 25, 2003

I would like to mess about with spray patterns rather than pressures, although im a long way off from that! haha

Have to buy lots of silly specialist tools....pah......pass the hammer!

BUTRE · Mar 25, 2003

if hammer isnt enough... drive over it.

but... spray patterns? what a hell is that? the shape of the srapying? the more "drizzle" the better!

maciek · Mar 25, 2003

Yup - and with too much pressure You get not really got atomisation - i suppose?

BenR · Mar 25, 2003

then you can play with injector position, injection angle.....

spray patterns is all about mixing

BUTRE · Mar 27, 2003

maciek, been researching over and over on "math theory injectors". It really seems that std valver/willy inj fail to go on 150bhp mark, but this is only if they would fire only once every 720º of the crank.

No one knows what injection has got the valver/willy, but I suspect its batch-fire. Even more now since you cant get 150bhp from a injector that at seq injection would fail at this mark.

batch-fire "spits" fuel every 360º crank turn. Inlet only opens once every 720º crank turn. So, two spits from this inj.

oh well... somebody is going to reply this.

maciek · Mar 30, 2003

uhhh... uot?

if inj. is open 90% time... then when would You wish to find time to do the second "shot"?

or do I mess up something?

Valver Injectors

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