Valver Wont Start, Help :(

[Jesse16v]

Okay so this happened yesterday,

Sat in car at work on my lunch with car running, car starts to shudder weirdly.
Turnt car off and on again and it started no problems.
Left work, got half way down dual carrigeway and car starts to judder all over the place, thinking its petrol as the light is on i managed to get to the petrol station, filled up with a fiver, got out the station and it died.
Wont start so thought it may be battery, tried for half hour to bump-start it but no luck.
Got it started once then i got alot of popping noises from the engine followed by a gushing air sound then it shuddered and died, now it wont start.

It does have a dodgy alternator but it should still start with a bump-start.

If anyone on here can help i would really apprechiate it.

 

[Jesse16v]

Can't let this go, anyone?

 

[bmh.01]

Checked the battery voltage? If its got a dodgy alternator and its given up the ghost with the cold weather then it won't be generating any electricity so it won't run.

 

[Jesse16v]

How hard is it to change an alternator? i need the car for next week as its going in for some repairs etc

 

[Jamie]

Pm'd.

Jamie

 

[Laine_16v]

Put more petrol in it, you need to put more than £5 in a petrol to get it off the light (if its very near empty), stick another £10 and i bet you might have some luck, ive seen this happen before.

 

[BRUN]

what about the earths ?........can be a common fault

 

[Josh@Renparts]

Put more petrol in it, you need to put more than £5 in a petrol to get it off the light (if its very near empty), stick another £10 and i bet you might have some luck, ive seen this happen before.

not going to affect its. There is a gallon on fuel in it. More than enough.

 

[Tucks]

Battery and alternator had to be done on mine last winter after similar problems so id lean towards that. Timing sensor aswell maybe somthing to look at?

 

[benm172]

could be that you need to replace your iscv pal (idle speed control valve) is it over fuelling and cutting out do u think? does it idle iratically?

 

[16valver50]

check the battery ,alternator,fuses,relays.mine died because i had a miniscule powerdrain from the clock it turned out,but it took a while t work ou. dident use it for 48hours and it killed it.poped the fuse out and seems t have solved it.

10s-15s of petrol also helps,5 is nout,doesent touch the sides!!!

 

[AmDaMan]

can you hear the fuel pump priming on ignition?

 

[Mark One]

did it sound anything like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INXCajf49aA

Mine has been doing that for ages now, so the uneven idle and the altenator could be 2 separate problems.

Altenator is fairly easy iirc. Just take the cross member rad assembly out after draining the coolant and you should be able to get to it i think. Not sure if the drivers light needs to come out too. but test it if possible before going to change it.

I have no knowledge of idle control valves at all, and i think i need one myself.

 

[Jesse16v]

Im a little skint right now after spending out on other fixes, but from what i've heared i should put some more petrol in, just thought £5 was more than enough to get the car running if anything?

I wouldn't know what a fuel pump priming noise sounds like?

Actually mine does sound a little bit like that, mines not as irratic though (the chunking noise) mine does like to idle on its own though, just goes up by another 300-400 revs then drops back to just under 1k i have only seen this problem get worse too!


People have also said it could be lambda sensor , fuel filter & fuel pump.

Might be easier if i work from under the car?

 

[Mark One]

fuel filter is cheap and easy - haynes suggests 1 every 48k
Lambda sensor will be rusted in, so that will be a pain to get out although I bet someone like edde would know what the resistance value should be so you can test it.

Priming noise:
Turn the key from OFF to the ignition position (II) but dont start it. You should hear a fairly quiet, high pitched wine that lasts about 1 second. Love that sound.

 

[AmDaMan]

if it won't start theres a few simple things you can try.

Check for a spark. Take a spark plug out, rest it on the block and get a friend to crank it and see if you can see a spark.

Check for fuel. Take the fuel pipes off the fuel rail, crank it and see if fuel comes out of the pipe.

The priming noise is the noise your fuel pump makes when it pressuring the system. If you can't here this on ignition your fuel pump has died. It's a sound that will last for a second or two on ignition. The noise will come from under the rear bench.

^^beaten to it

 

[Mark One]

^^beaten to it

soz mate!

 

[Jesse16v]

Charged the battery, put £10 worth of petrol in, connected a wire missing from alternator! and she fires up! im still getting this air gushing sound and i cant seem to find any loose tubes, the engine stuggles, then dies.

anyone

 

[AmDaMan]

must be an airleak somewhere..

Check tubes from the MAF sensor as these rub on the block and develop holes, also check any tubes running from the inlet manifold and check the inlet itself, they sometimes crack or leak from the gasket. Sometimes aire leaks develop near the TB too.

 

[Jesse16v]

I have a video on my phone but i cant find a way to upload (it wont let me upload to youtube) is there anyway i can MMS it to someone and they can upload it for me?

 

[Jesse16v]

can anyone point out where the MAF sensor is? MAP Sensor? illustrate where i should be looking for leaks?

 

[Jesse16v]

I have just been down to the car and the pipe is intact! i managed to get enough time to run the engine and see where the air noise was coming from, its coming from the Induction/throttlebody area, you get some weird popping noises too?

 

[Jesse16v]

Just been told it could be the ISCV (Idle Speed Control Valve), and that it needs to be taken out and cleaned, any chance someone could tell me/show me where it is and what i can clean it with?

and is this it?

 

[AmDaMan]

Hey mate if it's coming from the TB area take the airbox off and the TB, check the gasket is intact.

Also check the pipes connecting to the ISCV are intact. To clean the ISCV just disconnect it from the rubber pipes and spray lots of brake cleaner into it, while pushing the inner spindle round with a cotton bud. Keep doing this till the spindle is free from crap.

Then spray a tiny bit of WD40 into it.

PS the ISCV on the valver does not look like that pic.

PS Check this:

http://www.retro-renault.com/forums/engine-mechanical/28-16v-iscv-cleaning.html
http://www.retro-renault.com/forums/engine-mechanical/30-16v-throttle-body.html

 

[Jesse16v]

Got up this morning and cleaned out the ISCV & Cleaned out throttlebody, i still get the same problem! I found where the mad air sucking is coming from, its sucking loads of air from the pipe that comes off the ISCV that goes into the air filter (K&N) when i put my hand on the pipe it sucked like a hoover! So i started it a few times then at oine point it blew smoke out of the pipe! haha

Please this is my last chance.

 

[AmDaMan]

just tape the pipe up then, but this shouldn't be an issue if it on the filter to iscv pipe as it still has to pass through the icv

 

[Jesse16v]

Tape it up!? isnt that going to cause a big internal problem? like if you put your hand over a hoover pipe the hoover can blow up?

 

[AmDaMan]

if the pipe is leaking it needs taping up because it shouldn't be leaking!

 

[BRUN]

i dont think it is leaking, he has a K&N on so thats why he is probably getting a noise

 

[Jesse16v]

Its definately sucking, even when the pipe is not connected to the K&N :S

 

[AmDaMan]

that's what's meant to happen.. leave it conencted to the K&N.

 

[Jesse16v]

Official Update: 24/12/07

I had a home tune/dianostics man come out to me yesterday as i tried pretty much what everyone suggested on here and i was getting no where.

So, the low down is this:

The ECU was sending his Krypton machine an error back to it, this equipment cant give details of the error but after going over the car it wasn't sending any fuel to the engine, soon as he put fuel down the pipe it started. When i bought the car i was told there was a superchip fitted, i still have reciept for it and i said to him is there any chance that the chip has tripped the ECU? He agreed there was a possibility. So my car is currently a non-runner because of this ECU problem. (As far as i can see the chip wasn't remapped either)

What i need to know now is the way forward? Can i send my ECU to the superchip people to have it removed/looked at?

Is there an alternative ? (I said about getting a new ECU but he insist it would cost hundreds to match up immobilisers etc)

Also i found that the fueling problem was partly down to the ECU but also down to faulty CRANK SENSOR & THROTTLE SWITCH (Showing high resistance) , so if anyone has any decent ones send them my way!

Would apprechiate anyones help here, don't want to see another valver dead.

 

[Jesse16v]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B8mRmdCtdVU Here is the video, sorry for poor quality.

 

[Jesse16v]

Suggestions? lol

 

[Dan@SJM]

is the fuel pump running when its finsihed cranking? sounds like its priming then loosing pressure.

 

[Jesse16v]

Well it primes up, you can hear it. Im told that it could be the fuel filter clogged up and not allowing fuel to pass to the engine? So i got a fuel filter on the way in the post but didnt know if anyone has any more suggestions?

 

[Dan@SJM]

it primes, but does it run after the priming? as it sounds like its using the remainder of the fuel from being primed, then runs out. try taking off the fpr vacuum hose and blocking it, it'll run 3.5bar pressure so will show up if its a flow issue filter related.

 

[Jesse16v]

Nah it doesnt run after the priming, the Diagnostics man said it was the ECU stopping the fuel from running in the lines to the engine, soon as he put some fuel down the hole manually she wanted to start! :S

Im going to be a valver mechanic by the end of this haha which really isnt a bad thing so what and where is the fpr vacuum hose? and can i block it with say electrical tape? Also how can i measure this pressure?

 

[Jesse16v]

Oh and also whats the best way to see if my alternator is working? can i check via a multimeter ?

 

[Dan@SJM]

yea, put a multimeter across the battery should be 14v

where are you based? if your in the sw i can have a look. as i have had alot of experience with valvers lol