Very weak brakes... Bordering dangerous.

[Welsh.Dan]

Since buying the car a couple of months ago I've always felt the brakes are weak.
Haven't driven it too much but took it out yesterday and put brakes to the test.
Definitely something wrong with them.
Peddle feel seems fine, not too hard or soft and is consistent. Peddle travel seems fine too.
When pottering around town you wouldn't notice the bad brakes, as in your normal braking situations they are fine.
It seems to be that once you want say more than approx 50% of braking strength it just won't give you any more.
It brakes progressively and smoothly towards 50% of braking force but no matter how much more force I apply the brakes don't stop you any faster. The peddle keeps travelling as it should but brakes don't stop you any harder.
Tried numerous emergency stops and brakes are so weak even in the hammering rain I couldnt get it to skid, lock up or abs to kick in.
Front discs and pads actually look ok condition. rears well worn.

I have a full set of discs, pads, brake lines and fluid to be fitted this week.
I'm hoping this will cure it.

Does this sound familiar to anyone? It may be a problem somewhere else in the brake system? I can get it all fixed the same time as I do disks etc then see.

 

[botfch]

Swap discs, pads n fluidcheck for leaks etc should sort most problems!

 

[Paprika123]

Brake vacuum diaphragm ok?

 

[Welsh.Dan]

Swap discs, pads n fluid should sort most problems!

Yeah. That's what I'm hoping for

Brake vacuum diaphragm ok?

I'll look up a guide and check it while I'm there thanks.

 

[George@RTR_Parts]

Your new brake set up will improve things Dan

But you want to check everything is working as it should be while you're at it. Check for sticky calipers (quite common on the rears) and that the servo side of things is ok

 

[Corby G]

Sounds like brake fluid is compressing to me.

 

[George182]

I would definitely bleed the brakes (if not a full fluid flush) whilst you are at it.

 

[George@RTR_Parts]

He is flushing the fluid through with decent stuff when he's fitting braided lines very soon so no worries there lads

 

[Welsh.Dan]

Sounds like brake fluid is compressing to me.

I would definitely bleed the brakes (if not a full fluid flush) whilst you are at it.

Thanks for the advice fellas. Hopefully it's just s**t fluid in system then.

 

[Welsh.Dan]

He is flushing the fluid through with decent stuff when he's fitting braided lines very soon so no worries there lads

Yeah. Thanks again
When you say the servo side of things, just check the diaphragm?

 

[George@RTR_Parts]

No worries

Listen/look for leaks aswel

 

[Welsh.Dan]

No worries

Listen/look for leaks aswel

Cheers. Guy doing the brakes with me is a mechanic so hopefully he should be able to check most of it over. He's not familiar with clios. Mainly does our work vans etc.

 

[Corby G]

No worries

Listen/look for leaks aswel

And most important of all don't get any on the paint

 

[Welsh.Dan]

And most important of all don't get any on the paint

Lol! Worst nightmare

 

[botfch]

Random q's but any particular order you should bleed the calipers on 1*2s?

 

[Welsh.Dan]

I think general rule is work from front and finish with rears?

 

[Tunst]

Random q's but any particular order you should bleed the calipers on 1*2s?

Start with the furthest away from master cylinder...


Passenger Rear
Drivers Rear
Passenger Front
Drivers Front

 

[182Trophy]

Mine were like this before I had my replacements all round from g172 last week. They were scary in the wet. New ones have totally transformed my braking now. Looses speed from 70mph very well imo.

 

[Welsh.Dan]

Start with the furthest away from master cylinder...


Passenger Rear
Drivers Rear
Passenger Front
Drivers Front

Lol. Well that's me completely wrong.

Mine were like this before I had my replacements all round from g172 last week. They were scary in the wet. New ones have totally transformed my braking now. Looses speed from 70mph very well imo.

Ah well. That's good. Hope mine will be sorted so can drive it properly and take it to brands hatch.

 

[George@RTR_Parts]

Cheers. Guy doing the brakes with me is a mechanic so hopefully he should be able to check most of it over. He's not familiar with clios. Mainly does our work vans etc.

Sure he'll be fine mate. just remember the tips I said ref the DS2500 fitting and the spacers behind rear disc correct way round (tapered towards car) retorque rear hub nut to 175nm and jobs a good one

Mine were like this before I had my replacements all round from @G 172 last week. They were scary in the wet. New ones have totally transformed my braking now. Looses speed from 70mph very well imo.

Glad to hear you're pleased with them :approve:

That's good. Hope mine will be sorted so can drive it properly and take it to brands hatch.

I'm sure they will be!


Also ref bleeding the brakes, as what Tunst says. Furthest from MC first. You'll have plenty with a litre and Superblue is really easy to bleed through properly due to it being blue

 

[Welsh.Dan]

Sure he'll be fine mate. just remember the tips I said ref the DS2500 fitting and the spacers behind rear disc correct way round (tapered towards car) retorque rear hub nut to 175nm and jobs a good one



Glad to hear you're pleased with them :approve:



I'm sure they will be!


Also ref bleeding the brakes, as what Tunst says. Furthest from MC first. You'll have plenty with a litre and Superblue is really easy to bleed through properly due to it being blue

Great. Will remember to do all that.

Noticed on the tin it says not for use on the road due to it's colour not conforming to road use?! Would that even be picked up on an mot? Never heard about brake fluid colours before?

 

[George@RTR_Parts]

It has recently in some American states due to the colour. I've been using it on road/track for years, nothing to worry about it.

You can alternate it with "Supergold" when you need to as this is the traditional amber colour.

 

[Welsh.Dan]

Ah. I'm sure local mot wouldn't be bothered what colour it is, just as long as the levels correct.

Thanks for the interesting info there though Again

 

[Welsh.Dan]

Fitted new discs, pads, hoses and full fluid change and brakes still have the same issue, lack of power.
Anyone have any ideas? Master cylinder?
There's Def no air in the system. Was thoroughly bled.

 

[seanybaby1788]

Bump. I have the same issue after changing pads, discs, brake lines and fluids. My brakes are still poor, my girlfiends 1.2 extreme brakes were sharper.

 

[botfch]

Fitted new discs, pads, hoses and full fluid change and brakes still have the same issue, lack of power.
Anyone have any ideas? Master cylinder?
There's Def no air in the system. Was thoroughly bled.

Have you bedded in the new disks and pads yet?

Also are the sliders moving freely?
Is ABS working?

 

[Welsh.Dan]

Have you bedded in the new disks and pads yet?

Also are the sliders moving freely?
Is ABS working?

Yea mate. Gave them a good bedding in. They feel the same as before. Lack of braking power/pressure.
Sliders were all cleaned and greased.
I don't actually have enough brake pressure to engage abs to see of it's working.... In the dry or pissing down rain. The abs won't kick in neither will the wheels lock up. Just not enough force to do it.
Any other ideas. Thanks for the reply.

 

[botfch]

Yea mate. Gave them a good bedding in. They feel the same as before. Lack of braking power/pressure.
Sliders were all cleaned and greased.
I don't actually have enough brake pressure to engage abs to see of it's working.... In the dry or pissing down rain. The abs won't kick in neither will the wheels lock up. Just not enough force to do it.
Any other ideas. Thanks for the reply.

I'd have a look at the seals on you Master cylinder either that or air in the system somewhere.

 

[Welsh.Dan]

I'd have a look at the seals on you Master cylinder either that or air in the system somewhere.

Wouldn't know where to start with that one.
I need to take it to a garage but it's taking it somewhere that you can rely on is the issue. Don't want to get my pants pulled down!

Bled the brakes thoroughly, flushed new fluid right through.

 

[botfch]

Wouldn't know where to start with that one.
I need to take it to a garage but it's taking it somewhere that you can rely on is the issue. Don't want to get my pants pulled down!

Bled the brakes thoroughly, flushed new fluid right through.

Fred @BTM is prob your best bet for a garage.

 

[Welsh.Dan]

Fred @BTM is prob your best bet for a garage.

Yeah. Heard him mentioned a lot
Where's he based though?

 

[davo172]

Any decent local garage should be able to sort this TBH

 

[Welsh.Dan]

Any decent local garage should be able to sort this TBH

Yeah. Looks like I'll have to bite the bullet.
Just worry they'll change needless things rather than find and the fix specific fault, and charge the earth for it.

 

[callum_bell]

have you checked the pistons in the calipers are free, could be a seized/seizing caliper, un bolt the caliper from the carrier ask someone to push the pedal with little pressure and see if the piston moves out (careful not to make it pop right out), then push it back in. if its seized repeat this a few time and it should free it off a bit

 

[Welsh.Dan]

Haven't tried that one. Might try that out. Cheers

 

[Dan@SJM]

I'm probably your closest specialist.

 

[Welsh.Dan]

I'm probably your closest specialist.

Where are you based mate?

 

[Dan@SJM]

Street, BA16 9SD

 

[Welsh.Dan]

have you checked the pistons in the calipers are free, could be a seized/seizing caliper, un bolt the caliper from the carrier ask someone to push the pedal with little pressure and see if the piston moves out (careful not to make it pop right out), then push it back in. if its seized repeat this a few time and it should free it off a bit

Well something bizarre has happened.... Brakes have repaired themselves!!

It happened while on way home from London. I was feathering brakes with left foot when on motorway to help bed new discs and pads and then I touched brakes for 3rd time and peddle went a lot harder. I thought 'oh no what now?'
When I came to slowing down at slip road I tested brakes and they were massively strong!!
Several emergency stops later (with no cars behind of course) and the brakes are ridiculous, feels like back tyres are coming off ground! Abs kicks in tyres screech etc Proper braking finally! I'm so relieved/happy!

So it seems callum was probably right with the sticky caliper piston. As it seems to have released.
Also out of the ten or so E stops I did, on one of them the car braked a lot harder on one side as you could feel cars weight shift to one side.
So I may look at buying refurbished calipers or maybe a seal kit for these and strip them down myself.
I'm so relieved and thanks to any suggestions from everyone.

 

[George@RTR_Parts]

Good to hear Dan, :approve: bedding the DS2500 pads in properly is important

I'd still look at the brakes or get it looked at if you think it's pulling to one side or got a sticky caliper. Then you know they're sorted